Why does Spotify always play the same music?

[Barry Admin]

Every night I put on In a Silent Way or the sessions to fall asleep to, and invariably I end up listening to the same songs like "Générique - Bande originale du film "Ascenseur pour l'échafaud"" which is a banger, but I'm burned out on it now. It's second in my last.fm.charts.

Why does Spotify always come back to the same songs? Some of them I don't actually like, so should probably remember to ban.

[The Mollusk]

A bit of a biased opinion to this but I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say it's because Spotify is a shite service "curated" by unfeeling machines with only the most superficial understanding of the actual human joy of listening to music.

[SteveDave]

Yep, what they said.

I'm always amazed when colleagues have their Spotify playing in work how many times it repeats the same song (within whatever "playlist" genre has been chosen) in one day.

That's why I've still got an iPod.

[Kankurette]

This is why I make my own playlists.

[bgmnts]

Algorithm innit.

[mrpupkin]

Yeah I would say go to settings and turn off any feature that plays or selects things for you, you don't want any of that in your life. Likewise if you really want curated playlists avoid the Spotify ones and go for stuff made by punters.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

cuz it's shite.

[Pavlov`s Dog`s Dad`s Dead]

I've got to say my experience with Spotify seems different to many people's. It is, with the possible exception of this place (big thanks to whoever posted Beth Gibbons singing Gorecki the other day), the way I find new stuff to listen to. Just this morning I've been discovering the joys of Mulatu Astatke, after the algorithm threw up some Ethio jazz late last night. Never even knew that was a thing 24 hours ago.

I mean, yeah, it's the Man and his algorithm usurping the role of trusted mates, and so to be treated with suspicion. And I also get that streaming is a really shit deal for the actual artists. But in my case I don't have the spare cash to take a punt on an unfamilar CD; likewise the time to go to a gig. I've lost touch with many of my old mates for a variety of reasons, and in any event their tastes tended to revolve around a 70s rock/80s post-punk nexus, with very few outliers. So it's not as though my horizons were being particularly stretched back then.

[Kankurette]

Same. All those bands Mollusk posts are on Spotify and occasionally the algorithm WORKS. I've ended up discovering some really good bands and songs on there by accident. Queens of Noise, for instance, or Candy Claws, or Yonaka. I have got a Big Beat playlist made by Spotify but all the playlists I've saved that aren't mine are either made by friends, my mum (we've both made comedy song playlists and I wanted to see how much overlap there was) or random ones I've found, like a yé-yé playlist.

And I do still buy music if I like the band enough. But at least you can try before you buy instead of buying an album on the strength of one single and being disappointed by everything else *cough* Good Feeling by Travis *cough* KT Tunstall's first album *cough*

[Icehaven]

My new years's resolution was to get round to listening to music I've had fleeting experience of over the last 30 odd years and always thought I should investigate further but never actually have, so I treated myself to a Spotify sub to do it.

I'm doing it by going through the alphabet and picking two artists at a time then listening to two of their albums each, preferably from very different points in their career, alternating between the two acts. Some of the pairings have been similar to each other and some relatively different, although they're all mostly skewed to heavier rock, 80s pop and post punk and 90s indie because that's my taste, however the one common denominator seems to be that when an album finishes and I haven't lined up anything else to play next, more often than not Spotify will automatically play Broadcast.
They haven't been one of the bands I've listened to yet, although they might go on the list as they fit the remit, but I've no idea why Spotify consistently throws them up as what I might like after a mix so far of Nightwish, OMD, Pantera, Quietdrive, Rob Zombie, Sleater-Kinney, Throbbing Gristle, Ultravox, Volbeat, Weezer, XTC and Yo La Tengo. Sleater-Kinney and YLT are the only ones out of them that I'd think Broadcast were a logical next step but they popped up before I got to S and Y so I've no idea what's going on. I mean what I've heard of them so far is OK but Spotify seems to really, really want me to like them.

[The Mollusk]

Just this morning I've been discovering the joys of Mulatu Astatke, after the algorithm threw up some Ethio jazz late last night.

Fucking mint genre. Check out the album Moa Anbessa by Getatchew Mekurya and The Ex, superb blend of scrappy militant post-punk, alluring jazz bewitchment, and occasional Balkan folk poetry. A joyous collaboration which all participating members fuckin loved creating and touring together.

[Pavlov`s Dog`s Dad`s Dead]

Fucking mint genre. Check out the album Moa Anbessa by Getatchew Mekurya and The Ex, superb blend of scrappy militant post-punk, alluring jazz bewitchment, and occasional Balkan folk poetry. A joyous collaboration which all participating members fuckin loved creating and touring together.

Have just cued that up, thank you!

[touchingcloth]

Isn't the answer to the question that some labels SEO their songs' metadata to boost it up the algorithm, and some artists boost their songs by making them hooky, and having the sorts of tempos and keys that mean a lot of people put them into their work and workout playlists. It's never going to randomly slot the second movement from a symphony in there cos the algorithm is designed to find cookie-cutter tracks which can slot into a range of different shuffled playlists, not for finding longer works which only really suit being listened to in their entirety?

[Barry Admin]

I've got to say my experience with Spotify seems different to many people's. It is, with the possible exception of this place (big thanks to whoever posted Beth Gibbons singing Gorecki the other day), the way I find new stuff to listen to. Just this morning I've been discovering the joys of Mulatu Astatke, after the algorithm threw up some Ethio jazz late last night. Never even knew that was a thing 24 hours ago.

It introduced me to Azymuth for starters!

I figured there might be something else going on about from the algorithm, I'll see if I can turn that shit off or make playlists or whatever.



Again, great song, but I didn't want to hear it that many times.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Isn't the answer to the question that some labels SEO their songs' metadata to boost it up the algorithm, and some artists boost their songs by making them hooky, and having the sorts of tempos and keys that mean a lot of people put them into their work and workout playlists. It's never going to randomly slot the second movement from a symphony in there cos the algorithm is designed to find cookie-cutter tracks which can slot into a range of different shuffled playlists, not for finding longer works which only really suit being listened to in their entirety?

There probably is some of that, plus allowing artists to take a lower cut for prioritisation. From what I can gather a lot of the recs are predetermined and things act like a linked list, Tidal does this as well.

There's nothing inherently wrong with recommendation algorithms if they haven't been meddled with. Last.fm's recommendation system was generally pretty reliable. I wouldn't want to rely on them entirely as I think they generally won't push you out of your comfort zone like human recommendations will, which tend to be more genre crossing. But refusing them outright strikes me as sentimental zealotry.

[touchingcloth]

There's nothing inherently wrong with recommendation algorithms if they haven't been meddled with.

I guess there's a lot of leeway in what counts as "meddling", especially as there's so little feedback you can provide when listening to songs. Should recommendations be based on users like me, in which case what does that actually mean? I think recommendation engines will typically take time of day into account and so you'll be suggested morning, working hour, and evening tracks based on other users, but what if someone works in a factory as opposed to an office, or spends their evening doing office-type work? A lot of times it seems like a true shuffle option through the entire library or a genre or a decade would be better than an algorithm, but back when I used to use an iPod the "shuffle" would play some songs conspicuously more than others.

There probably is some of that, plus allowing artists to take a lower cut for prioritisation. From what I can gather a lot of the recs are predetermined and things act like a linked list, Tidal does this as well.

I think there are under the table deals as well, and record labels have their ins with the curation teams at streaming services.

[Dr Rock]

I recommend Swinsian. It's like iTunes when it was good.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I guess there's a lot of leeway in what counts as "meddling", especially as there's so little feedback you can provide when listening to songs. Should recommendations be based on users like me, in which case what does that actually mean? I think recommendation engines will typically take time of day into account and so you'll be suggested morning, working hour, and evening tracks based on other users, but what if someone works in a factory as opposed to an office, or spends their evening doing office-type work? A lot of times it seems like a true shuffle option through the entire library or a genre or a decade would be better than an algorithm, but back when I used to use an iPod the "shuffle" would play some songs conspicuously more than others.

I think the simplest ones probably work in much the same way decision-making has been made in the music industry since sales data has been collected from bricks and mortar stores.

[Kankurette]

This is what I mean. How many of us are going to know anything about Ethiopian jazz or where to find it? Only African jazz musician I'm really familiar with is Fela Kuti and he was Nigerian. I wouldn't be able to name an Ethiopian jazz musician if you paid me. Spotify is often the best place to start if I want to listen to something niche. I'm supposed to push myself out of my musical comfort zone, aren't I?

(This isn't a dig at Getatchew Mekurya and the lads btw, I actually like it. And yes, it does sound a bit post-punk.)

ETA: holy shit a playlist

[Stoneage Dinosaurs]

My discover weekly seems to still fart out interesting stuff. But yeah it is largely shit

[dontpaintyourteeth]

I use rateyourmusic, youtube, soulseek, musicbee, and, yes, still, lastfm to find music

[flotemysost]

My new years's resolution was to get round to listening to music I've had fleeting experience of over the last 30 odd years and always thought I should investigate further but never actually have, so I treated myself to a Spotify sub to do it.

I'm doing it by going through the alphabet and picking two artists at a time then listening to two of their albums each, preferably from very different points in their career, alternating between the two acts.

I really like this idea!

I use Deezer, which seems alright (by my deeply dilettante standards) in terms of recommendations and options etc. but for years it's clung to this curiously dogged insistence that I *love* the band Queen. Now I've got nothing against the band Queen, but I wouldn't say they've ever featured particularly significantly in my listening; and maybe I need to change that at some point, not opposed to that, I've just got no idea where it's coming from.

Can't even blame it on my lockdown-era deep dive into the (potentially algorithmically-aligned) Sparks back catalogue, it was foisting Freddie et al onto me way before that. Not a problem, but sometimes I'll mindlessly scroll through the app with no idea what I feel like listening to and there it is, "Because you love Queen..." yeah alright Deezer, if you say so.

[Kankurette]

I go through phases. The Kinks and Sneaker Pimps this year, for instance.

[Dr Rock]

Artists I'm currently always sticking on new playlists:

Roky Erikson/Thirteenth Floor Elevators
Ennio Morricone
Serge Gainsbourg
Roxy Music
The Beach Boys
The Jesus and Mary Chain
The Kinks
Pixies
Lee Hazlewood

[dontpaintyourteeth]

Artists I'm currently always sticking on new playlists:

Roky Erikson/Thirteenth Floor Elevators
Ennio Morricone
Serge Gainsbourg
Roxy Music
The Beach Boys
The Jesus and Mary Chain
The Kinks
Pixies
Lee Hazlewood

I know basically fuck all about Morricone if anyone is up for doing a thread about him and recommending stuff

[Dr Rock]

I know basically fuck all about Morricone if anyone is up for doing a thread about him and recommending stuff

For you darlin, anything. Done.

[Cloud]

I find it's actually good at recommending new things that I like - but you do have to skip past what you've already known first, yeah.  And the skip limit on the free tier probably gives you your answer :)

Well that and having observed the music habits of others (pub jukebox, work, etc) I've noticed that most people play the same 3 songs, day in, day out, and never get bored of them - could be that they're catering to this (albeit anecdotal) majority but I feel you as I'm also one of the few who gets bored of listening to the same thing all the time. 

[Barry Admin]

I really wouldn't have minded if the algorithm-driven stuff was different each time, and didn't just follow the exact same path. Duke Ellington always leading to the same Frank Sinatra song did my bap in.

Turned off "autoplay... we'll play you something similar" so it just stops.  Which is mostly preferable to me, I don't necessarily need to keep listening to music while I am asleep. 

[Ferris]

The algorithm seems to play it very safe. If it picks a song and you say "eugh what is this shit??" and turn off Spotify, then it's doing itself out of $$$ so it tends to try and put you in a box and feed you more of the same.

That can be effective, but it's a bit rubbish for finding new music unless it's a band doing exactly the same thing as other bands you like. If you like the white stripes, here's Defiance, Ohio. Great. Fine. The system works.

The two artists I've been listening to the most in the past month or two are Future Islands and Labi Siffre, and I "discovered" them off my own bat, or at least without Spotify and they've never been suggested to me before. It's just tech innit, needs tinkering to get the most out of it and never as smart as it thinks it is.

[Sebastian Cobb]

I dunno about Spotify but if you look at a track on Tidle you can view the track or artist 'radio' which it jumps to when your playlist is empty, so it's not exactly lying about being deterministic.