The Lord of the Rings

[Video Game Fan 2000]

"like butter scraped over too much bread" actually you idiot, toast hadn't been invented yet

wait the welshing shortarses spend all their walk to arizona rabbiting about breakfast and they don't even have toast?

worst book ever

[Magnum Valentino]

They've that lovely special elf bread that makes you full for ages but.

[Glebe]

"like butter scraped over too much bread" actually you idiot, toast hadn't been invented yet

And yet chips had!

[frajer]

Brreeaaaddd. Toast it, fry it, stick it round some ham!

[Glebe]

Not forgetting The Hobbit chapter 'Roast Mutton'!

Anyone seen popcorn lately? ;)

[Old Nehamkin]

I re-read The Hobbit earlier this year and I think that's about as close to perfect as a children's adventure novel can be. Loved it as a kid, love it now. Really enthralling and (crucially) pretty funny. I don't think I'd quite appreciated before how arch and ironical it is compared to the Lord of the Rings - the whole gag of centering this heroic fantasy around a random purposeless guy who has no business being there and just wants to go home has probably lost a bit of its novelty now but I think you can draw a pretty short line between Tolkien's sense of humour in that book and the stuff that your Terry Pratchett's and Douglas Adams's were writing 40-50 years later. Without Bilbo Baggins I'm not sure you'd have an Arthur Dent (and I promise I'm not just making that comparison because Martin Freeman has played both characters).

I haven't had a proper go at The Lord of the Rings for ages but my memory is that the early chapters are incredibly effective at setting the table and cranking up the intrigue and atmosphere (also very well realised in the film version), then I eventually lose interest around the start of the second volume after the fellowship breaks up and it starts to become more focused on lords in castles and big massive battles and that kind of thing.

I do like the bit where a fox randomly has an internal monologue.

[Old Nehamkin]

I did find the whole contrast between The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings quite fascinating as a child. I used to listen to the BBC radio version of The Hobbit on cassette constantly, then at some point my brother got a copy of the corresponding LOTR series which came in a big imposing black box and you start listening and it's all spooky music and gollum shrieking under torture in Mordor and the black riders galloping about in the night and it's like you're suddenly in this uncanny nightmare version of a warm familiar world you thought you knew. Too rich for my blood, I said to myself at 7 or whatever I was then.

[Glebe]

The bit where the Fellowship attempts to go over the Misty Mountains in a snow storm, somebody suggests trying to light a fire and Gandalf says something like "You might as well put up a sign saying 'Gandalf is here!" which always amused me.

According to Tolkien biographer Humphrey Carpenter, J.R.R. was partial to a bit of Marx Brothers!

[shoulders]

Even before having seen the film there are so many vivid iconic scenes from the Hobbit and LotR that come to mind through the writing that most of the literary criticism seems to have to overlook in order for the critique to function.

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

Look at this daft twat.

[Glebe]

Brian Blessed prolly too old to play him now. Shame.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

Look at this daft twat.

see when i see this i think maybe tolkein understood mythology after all

[Old Nehamkin]

Am I remembering right that there's a bit where someone suggests giving the ring to Tom Bombadil because he is simply impervious to it and Gandalf is like no, he is too silly.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

no socialism in middle earth until tom bombadil is on the throne of gondor

[jamiefairlie]

Look at this daft twat.

And he's gone for the 5 to 1 option, ho ho!

[Norton Canes]

The other thing about reading Lord of the Rings is that context is everything. When I was first reading The Fellowship of the Ring in 1982 we were on holiday for a week in Harrogate, so all the pastoral side of the Shire really resonated, as did the wilder landscapes further afield. By the time I was onto The Return of the King I was staying for a week with relatives in Luton, so I totally felt in tune with the bleak grimness of Mordor and its subhuman denizens.

[greenman]

I re-read The Hobbit earlier this year and I think that's about as close to perfect as a children's adventure novel can be. Loved it as a kid, love it now. Really enthralling and (crucially) pretty funny. I don't think I'd quite appreciated before how arch and ironical it is compared to the Lord of the Rings - the whole gag of centering this heroic fantasy around a random purposeless guy who has no business being there and just wants to go home has probably lost a bit of its novelty now but I think you can draw a pretty short line between Tolkien's sense of humour in that book and the stuff that your Terry Pratchett's and Douglas Adams's were writing 40-50 years later. Without Bilbo Baggins I'm not sure you'd have an Arthur Dent (and I promise I'm not just making that comparison because Martin Freeman has played both characters).

I haven't had a proper go at The Lord of the Rings for ages but my memory is that the early chapters are incredibly effective at setting the table and cranking up the intrigue and atmosphere (also very well realised in the film version), then I eventually lose interest around the start of the second volume after the fellowship breaks up and it starts to become more focused on lords in castles and big massive battles and that kind of thing.

I do like the bit where a fox randomly has an internal monologue.

I do think even into LOTR Tolkien does retain some sense of seperation betyween the Hobbits and the wider setting with maybe Gandalf being a bit inbetween the two, not as much humour in the narration but still a good deal of it in those characters which I always felt made it stand out as more human than a lot of grand fantasy.

I think actually one of the most significant things Jacksons version does it break down that divide rather, perhaps it was inevitable it would have to given the medium? characters like Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir, Elrond, Theoden end up a good deal less "high fantasy" in the films than they were in the books with more personal drama to them.

I'd agree Fellowship was always my favourite of the books but really I think a lot of Tolkiens ability is being able to build atmosphere in a personal travalog fashion across landscapes which whilst they have some fantasy elements to them are grounded in reality.

[Milo]

I read this as an early teen. I have the sort of memory that retains very little of my life (what they call deficit of autobiographical memory) but one of my most vivid memories of childhood is a dream in which I'm sneaking into Mordor like the bits when it's just Sam and Frodo in some Mordorn backwater with a few orcs around. The sense memories are more vivid than anything I've experienced in reality.

[Glebe]

Was watching a bit of An Unexpected Journey on telly again the other night, like Fellowship it initially captures the wonderful pastoral quality of Middle-Earth... but then goes heavy on the CGI silliness.

[gilbertharding]

I first read LotR when I was off school with flu when I was about 17, in the late 80s. I can't remember if I'd read the Hobbit first or not.

I remember being quite pleased with myself for persisting through such a thick book (I didn't think of myself as a reader back then). I've read it a few times since, but the last time would have been around the time the film (which I haven't watched) first came out. I obviously enjoyed it - I thought it had good pace, even if there were slow parts.

Has anyone read the Silmarillion? I was baffled by my inability to even scratch the surface of that one. It's like being a fan of The Famous Five, and not being able to manage a Secret Seven book (which also happened to me).

[Glebe]

Has anyone read the Silmarillion? I was baffled by my inability to even scratch the surface of that one. It's like being a fan of The Famous Five, and not being able to manage a Secret Seven book (which also happened to me).

I had a few goes but never really made it past the Elves rebelling against the Valar. Other books I gave up on after a few attempts, It (got about 300 pages in) and more recently Dune... my particularly anxious, obsessive moods these past few years have made reading a little tougher than it used to be.

[Pranet]

I think the Silmarillion must be one of the most unfinished books of all time. I've had a copy for around thirty three years which has remained unfinished. It has survived a few clear outs so part of me must think there is still a chance.

[Glebe]

I think the Silmarillion must be one of the most unfinished books of all time. I've had a copy for around thirty three years which has remained unfinished. It has survived a few clear outs so part of me must think there is still a chance.

*doubtful Norris gif*

[Mr Vegetables]

The Dictionary probably isn't finished much, and in this case that doesn't feel like too glib a comparison

[Pranet]

Bit of a tangent but my copy of the Concise Oxford Dictionary starts with essays on the history of the English language and also one on the history of the Dictionary itself and I always wonder how many people ever read those bits. I don't suppose that many physical dictionaries are sold these days anyway.

[FredNurke]

Tolkien did of course work on the OED for a couple of years (lightweight).

[Dog Botherer]

Am I remembering right that there's a bit where someone suggests giving the ring to Tom Bombadil because he is simply impervious to it and Gandalf is like no, he is too silly.

slightly more wordy but yes

"And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind. He would be a most unsafe guardian; and that alone is answer enough."

[Ferris]

I am a Tolkien/Legendarium fan and think they're brilliant bits of work. Not just LotR, but the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and the Children of Húrin too.

They rewrite and lean on bits of folklore that the audience is expected to know, while substituting and inventing their own bits and the whole thing is (broadly) internally consistent.

It's fashionable to think they're nerd shit, but they're superb bits of literature.

Ok cheers.

[jamiefairlie]

slightly more wordy but yes

"And if he were given the Ring, he would soon forget it, or most likely throw it away. Such things have no hold on his mind. He would be a most unsafe guardian; and that alone is answer enough."

And our book wouldn't be very exciting

[gilbertharding]

Bit of a tangent but my copy of the Concise Oxford Dictionary starts with essays on the history of the English language and also one on the history of the Dictionary itself and I always wonder how many people ever read those bits. I don't suppose that many physical dictionaries are sold these days anyway.

Obviously a complete tangent, but the copy of the Concise Oxford Dictionary I got for xmas when I was about 18 (old enough to be very grateful to receive it, in other words) had a similar essay, pondering, among other things, the introduction of the new words 'fax machine' and 'Squarial'.