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March 28, 2024, 06:54:17 PM

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Cab Men II: Because fact into doubt won't go

Started by Fambo Number Mive, March 29, 2018, 09:48:16 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Uncle TechTip

Quote from: icehaven on January 10, 2022, 10:04:53 AMI'm sure this has come up in numerous other discussions about the 'breathy acoustic covers in ads' cliche, but is it right that cover versions don't need the permission of the original artist/whoever owns the rights to be used in ads/tv shows etc.?

I'm sure they still need permission from whoever holds the rights but many songs are now owned by companies rather than individuals that are more than willing to license the song anywhere. Eg we might expect more Bowie songs in adverts after his publishing was sold last week.

Look up Hipgnosis who own loads of classic tracks, they put it front and centre - license any of our songs for a multi channel campaign.

seepage

That bloody Coldplay song used in that constantly-on car ad would be very suitable for coconut bog roll too.

JesusAndYourBush

I think in the past it was a case that bands/record companies were sometimes reluctant to licence their songs for use in ads, but since the internet ruined the music business they want to make money wherever they can.

kalowski

Quote from: JesusAndYourBush on January 10, 2022, 07:34:19 PMI think in the past it was a case that bands/record companies were sometimes reluctant to licence their songs for use in ads, but since the internet ruined the music business they want to make money wherever they can.
Yes. In 2002 Tom Waits wrote
QuoteArtists who take money for ads poison and pervert their songs. It reduces them to the level of a jingle, a word that describes the sound of change in your pocket, which is what your songs become. Remember, when you sell your songs for commercials, you are selling your audience as well.

When I was a kid, if I saw an artist I admired doing a commercial, I'd think, "Too bad, he must really need the money." But now it's so pervasive. It's a virus. Artists are lining up to do ads. The money and exposure are too tantalizing for most artists to decline. Corporations are hoping to hijack a culture's memories for their product. They want an artist's audience, credibility, good will and all the energy the songs have gathered as well as given over the years. They suck the life and meaning from the songs and impregnate them with promises of a better life with their product.

Eventually, artists will be going onstage like race-car drivers covered in hundreds of logos.
And whilst I admire it as a position I can understand why some new artists break and allow their music to be used. To be honest, before he sued Frito-Lay I don't think Tom Waits was making big bucks from his music, but I imagine it's easy to make virtually nothing nowadays.

mothman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heartattack_and_Vine_(song)


Quote from: Levi'sTom Waits is opposed to his music, voice, name or picture being used in commercials. We at Levi Strauss & Co. have long admired Mr. Waits' work and respect his artistic integrity including his heartfelt views on the use of his music in commercials. From January to June 1993 Levi Strauss Europe authorized broadcasting in 17 countries a commercial for Levi's 501 jeans called "Procession". This commercial featured Tom Waits' song "Heart Attack and Vine" performed by Screamin' Jay Hawkins. We obtained the rights in good faith and were unaware of Mr. Waits' objections to such usage of his composition. We meant no offense to Mr. Waits and regret that "Heart Attack and Vine" was used against his wishes and that the commercial caused him embarrassment.

Remember the advert, didn't know about the aftermath.

paruses

That ad was the first thing I thought of when I read the Tom Waits extract and thought it was a bit rich. Hadn't remembered that it was Screamin' Jay Hawkins though so the Levi's apology (sincere or not) makes sense.

Interesting point though about rights and Rights. Would that mean that they had leased the song from SJH or that someone other than Waits owned the rights to the original composition?

kalowski

Not my words, Carol, but the words of http://tomwaitslibrary.info/biography/copyright/levis/
QuoteIn October - December 1990 Screamin' Jay Hawkins recorded a cover of "Heartattack And Vine" to be released on the album Black Music For White People. At that moment Tom Waits did not hold the copyright to the song. The copyright was owned by Herb Cohen's publishing company Third Story Music, Inc. (later Fifth Floor Music Inc.) The CD was released in 1991 on Cohen's Bizarre/Straight Records/ Planet Records (BP 40102 2). The album was produced by Robert Duffey (Herb Cohen was credited as executive producer).

It's unknown whether Tom Waits was opposed to this cover being released, but one might assume he had no objections to Hawkins covering one of his older songs. The two might even have met on the set of Mystery Train (Jim Jarmusch, 1989). And Waits might have been aware of the fact that he had only little legal reasons to stop this cover from being released (no copyright infringement, no false endorsement, no voice misappropriation).
But Herb Cohen wanted more...
Herb Cohen, eager to cash in his copyrights for Waits's early songs, made a deal with the European branch of jeans producer Levi Strauss & Co. From January to June 1993 Hawkins' "Heart Attack and Vine" was used in a TV-commercial (called "Procession") broadcast in 17 countries throughout Europe and later released as Levi's CD singles in: Holland, UK, Germany and Austria.

According to Mike Keneally (who played with Hawkins), the cover was also included in a Levi's compilation.(1) The compilation Keneally is referring to is unidentified. It could be one of the following Levi's releases:

- "Levi's 501 Hits, Vol 3" (1993, Wea/East/West/ WSM)
- "Be Real (Levi's 501 Jeans)" (1994, Levi Strauss & Co.)(2)

By then it was a well know fact that Tom Waits did not do commercials. Since November 1988 Waits was engaged in the lawsuit against Frito-Lay and Tracy-Locke ("Part of my character and personality and image that I have cultivated is that I do not endorse products.")(3) There was no doubt about Waits's stand on doing commercials. So Waits went to court once more (May, 1993).

One wonders what case Waits tried to make against Levi's. He could not sue for copyright infringement (Waits did not hold the copyright), nor for voice misappropriation (Hawkins did not do an impersonation). He probably sued for something like "false endorsement" (embarrassment, damage to artistic reputation or professional standing, future publicity value). Waits would probably have to go to a European court. But in this area jurisdiction in Europe hasn't pushed the law as far as in the US. Financial compensations in Europe were and are just a fraction of those in the US.

Jay S. Jacobs (2000):(4) "Waits sued and Cohen countersued. While the court ruled in favor of Waits, he was awarded only a fraction of the financial compensation he'd requested. However, he could take solace in the official apology he received from Levi Strauss and Company, which took the form of a fullpage ad in Billboard magazine."

Waits might have accepted Levi's apology, as he became aware of the minimal awards European laws account for. And he probably was still involved in the Frito-Lay case (the exact date of the Levi's case is unknown), which was far more demanding and rewarding.

It's a pity there are no accounts of Tom Waits and Screamin' Jay Hawkins actually meeting, but there have been a few occasions where they most likely ran into each other. They both contributed to Jim Jarmusch's Mystery Train from 1989 (Hawkins in a cameo as a hotel night clerk, Waits as the voice of a radio DJ). They both contributed to the soundtrack for the Wayne Wang movie Smoke from 1995 (Hawkins with "Hong Kong", Waits with "Downtown Train" and "Innocent When You Dream"). In 1994 Hawkins recorded yet another cover of a Waits song ("Whistlin' Past The Graveyard") for his album Somethin' Funny Going On (Bizarre/ Planet). Waits not taking legal action might suggest he did not oppose to this cover being released. In 1998 both Hawkins and Waits played at the "'Not in Our Name: Dead Men Walking'' benefit at the Shrine Auditorium in Los Angeles.(5)

It's hard to determine whether the two (both being unique, colourful and wayward characters) were in fact kindred spirits. Somehow one wishes they were. Screamin' Jay Hawkins died February 12, 2000 in Neuilly-sur-Seine (France) near Paris at the age of 70. According to the Associated Press he underwent surgery earlier in the week to treat an aneurysm at the Ambroise Pave clinic and subsequently suffered multiple organ failure.(5)
----
(1) Mike Keneally:"... when I was in Europe a couple of weeks ago I saw that the song is included in a compilation of songs from Levi's ads over the years." Source: The Mike Keneally Website. Contents �1994 - 2002 Obvious Moose

(2) Hawkins version was NOT included in these Levi's compilations: "The Original - Songs From Levi's Commercials" (1991), "Levi's 501 Hits, Vol 1" (1991), "The Hit Sound Of Levi's 501" (1991/ 1992), "Levi's Radio 501" (1993), "Levi's Music Advert Collection" (2001), "Levi's Compilation: Twisted Music to Fit" (2002)

(3) Source: U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals WAITS v. FRITO-LAY, INC., 978 F.2d 1093 (9th Cir. 1992), Caselaw.findlaw.com, Solomon L. Wisenberg/ Mark Roesler

(4) Source: "Wild Years - The Music And Myth Of Tom Waits", Jay S. Jacobs. ECW Press, 2000

(5) Source Screamin' Jay Hawkins facts: Unofficial Screamin' Jay Hawkins site by Michael Kuhn. 1998-2002

mippy

An Adem cover of an Aphex Twin song was in an SMA ad a while back, couldn't imagine them using the original somehow...

Is everyone else getting spammed on youtube with the same ads with that wanker in a spa flogging "free" business seminars? Seems to've been constant today.

This cunt.



JesusAndYourBush

I get a lot of youtube ads in Chinese, dunno why.

Bently Sheds

The sponsor ads for Fifth Gear Recharged on Quest HD are for a new electric MG car which features a load of people staring at the camera whilst their hair begins to stand on end. I'd have thought that getting a massive static discharge is the last thing you'd want associated with your EV brand...

monkfromhavana

Quote from: Uncle TechTip on January 10, 2022, 11:23:12 AMI'm sure they still need permission from whoever holds the rights but many songs are now owned by companies rather than individuals that are more than willing to license the song anywhere. Eg we might expect more Bowie songs in adverts after his publishing was sold last week.

Look up Hipgnosis who own loads of classic tracks, they put it front and centre - license any of our songs for a multi channel campaign.

I literally know someone who owns a music publishing company, I have asked them and should get a definitive answer :D

monkfromhavana

"In short, yes. So if u did cover of one of my tracks and someone wants to use your version for an ad they have to get my permission as the writer and your permission as the recording artist of the cover"

Re: Payment

"Usually when u get an ad request they have to pay for both master and the publishing so all get paid (original artist and cover artist)"

Fambo Number Mive

Those Morgan joins the Scum ads are everywhere at the moment. The ones on the electronic bus stop ads have an angry Morgan pointing at the viewer with a picture of Morgan clenching his fists next to it. GRRR, Piers Morgan is SO ANGRY over the news. So angry that he has joined an establishment propaganda newspaper owned by a man who is more powerful than Prime Ministers. I suspect Piers' "anger" will be more likely to be about M&Ms and "snowflakes" than actual issues. Maybe he will be allowed to be angry about the Downing Street parties given Murdoch seems to have little use for Alexander Johnson.

mippy

Quote from: monkfromhavana on January 21, 2022, 11:02:29 AM"In short, yes. So if u did cover of one of my tracks and someone wants to use your version for an ad they have to get my permission as the writer and your permission as the recording artist of the cover"

Re: Payment

"Usually when u get an ad request they have to pay for both master and the publishing so all get paid (original artist and cover artist)"

Composer and performer details for each ad is passed on to PRS as well.

Blue Jam

Have we had this one yet? I haven't felt this genocidal since that Haribo ad:


*winces in pain*

AsparagusTrevor

Quote from: Blue Jam on February 04, 2022, 01:07:17 PMHave we had this one yet? I haven't felt this genocidal since that Haribo ad:


*winces in pain*

I saw a fox get hit by the car in front of me last week and that advert is the most horrific thing I've seen in ages.

Icehaven

Quote from: Blue Jam on February 04, 2022, 01:07:17 PMHave we had this one yet? I haven't felt this genocidal since that Haribo ad:


*winces in pain*

I first saw that on TV a few days ago and found it utterly terrifying, it's like something out of a low budget horror film about aliens masquerading as humans.

mothman

That Dairy Milk advert with the kid getting to eat some of it after he offers a bit to a crying girl on the bus... now there's a lad who's going to grow up pretending to be friendly and supportive of women but who actually has an ulterior motive.

Steven88

Quote from: Blue Jam on February 04, 2022, 01:07:17 PMHave we had this one yet? I haven't felt this genocidal since that Haribo ad:


*winces in pain*
Jesus, why do I read the comment sections for videos like this.

dissolute ocelot

Listening to local radio today (Forth 1), I heard an advert for a divorce lawyer, all very nice and non-confrontational, but still, is divorce a big growth market now? This was between the adverts for bankruptcy (trust deeds) and suing whoever sold you your timeshare. It must be hard to be a jaunty local radio dj amid this.

Sebastian Cobb

After nearly 2 years of homeworking and lockdowns I bet there's been a bit of an uptick in the ol' divorce market, yeah.


kalowski


dissolute ocelot

Virgin Cruises advert with Like A Virgin as the soundtrack is very icky. Even if they do promise "No kids!" Does that mean free contraception?

mothman


Sebastian Cobb

I'd have thought most people who go on cruises' kids have left home and have their own kids by now.

mothman

#1497
Yes, because they're the only ones who can afford it. One idle evening over Christmas we ended up watching this programme on Channel 5 where Susan Calman went on a Christmas Arctic cruise, and we agreed that it looked quite nice and was possibly the only cruise we'd ever consider doing. Then we looked up the prices, it was like about £13k each.

Icehaven

A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do At All Because It's Prohibitively Expensive.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Is that Numan blood test advert supposed to sound like it was made by vampires?

"Send. Us. Your. Blood."