Donald Trump

[druss]

Are even the Democrats really that fucking stupid, though?

Joe Biden.

[Mister Six]

I'm not saying it isn't being used to fuel a Dem message, but surely prosecuting someone for trying to instigate a rebellion and overthrow the democratic process is pretty reasonable?

[gabrielconroy]

No, it's completely antidemocratic to prosecute someone for trying to overthrow democracy

[Pink Gregory]

No, it's completely antidemocratic to prosecute someone for trying to overthrow democracy

democracy is when I get what I want

[Buelligan]

If the two contenders for the next presidency are indeed Biden and Trump, I think the outcome will depend on the proportion of truly unhinged tribal voters each party (malevolent tortoise) has. 

Both candidates are shit, both are liars, both far far too old, both have already been shit presidents, no one sane's going to rise off of their sickbed or battle through snowdrifts to vote for either.  No one's going to have an epiphany and vote the other way because that candidate just outed themself as a terrible fucking cunt or because they've suddenly revealed what a great thing they'd be for us all.  No. 

The election rests solely on the poundage of really stupid invested and already completely committed imbeciles each of these terrible cunts already has in the bag.  Everyone else is going to stay home.  Calling that assinine poundage, though, it's difficult, I'd guess Trump has it.  But it's just a guess, there are some fucking idiotic Biden people out there.

[kngen]

That all sounds very interesting. Has he published anything on this yet?

I'll hit him up for some more info next time I see him, as I think their most recent stuff still to be collated and edited, but this was all I can find for the moment: https://www.fracturesphoto.com/

Also related to Trump is his stuff on non-lethal weapons used by law enforcement in the US and Chile (he suffered a severe eye injury after being shot in the face by a plastic round while reporting on the George Floyd protests in DC): https://pulitzercenter.org/people/wil-sands

_{News photographers are nutters; war photographers doubly so.}

[kngen]

I don't really find Trump frightening or see where the "existential threat to democracy" comes from (as if we had democracy in the first place, but that's a separate matter), because Trump amazingly but genuinely has zero interest in political power. There has never been a more predictable public figure or a more extreme example of narcissistic personality disorder. He didn't try to overturn the 2020 election results because he's a dictator, he did it because he was mad on a personal level that he was declared a loser in public.

He will probably govern as an even more extreme version of Republican orthodoxy than last time though, which is bad and dangerous enough. His lack of interest in politics and his personal vendettas against the RNC makes him an easy puppet for far-right ideological groups.

On a macro level, I agree with you as there is a bawhair between the two parties (albeit a fairly significant one, as it really comes down to abortion rights and nothing else). On the ground level though, particularly in purple or red states, the worst people in the country were emboldened to swan around acting like cunts. I dread to think what a Trump return will do to their psyches. The more mouthy ones are all in the pokey though, so that's something.

[BlodwynPig]

The US' been bananas for millennia.

[Brass Moustache]

lets hope this is indicative in states where it matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IJjB-LhK10

[DelurkedToHelp]

lets hope this is indicative in states where it matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IJjB-LhK10

Meidas Touch is basically the liberal Breitbart so it's fair to assume anything they say is not indicative.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Trump says immigrants are "sick with diseases" as he calls for rounding them up in mass detention camps

He knows what his supporters want, I'll give him that

[the hum]

One of the weird things is that the Republicans have been on the slide for decades, in terms of the popular vote in presidential elections; the last time they won that was in 2004. With Trump, they are both simultaneously terrified of speaking out against him, for obvious reasons, yet also he, combined with the Electoral College system, are pretty much their only means of self-preservation at this point.

[steve98]

On a macro level, I agree with you as there is a bawhair [Very little] between the two parties.

Eh? The differences are enormous.

[the hum]

The Republicans are cruel in word and deed. The Dems have a kindly rhetoric but it's not necessarily backed up by their actions, and their failings in that regard only serve to feed populism. The US isn't exactly the only place where trad centre-left parties are capitulating due to watered-down policy and terrible leadership choices. There isn't anything like enough difference to make a difference.

[steve98]

The Ukrainians will be happy to hear that. As will the huge numbers of illegals and assorted riff-raff, who can expect to find themselves re-located to tent-cities.

[DelurkedToHelp]

The Ukrainians will be happy to hear that. As will the huge numbers of illegals and assorted riff-raff, who can expect to find themselves re-located to tent-cities.

Why hasn't Biden bypassed congress to send Ukraine weapons as he has done twice for Israel, as if it's so important to him/the Democrats/generally?

[Psybro]

It feels to me like Trump would never be able to get Congress to release the funds required to do fascism properly in the US, but would be able to use the nebulous military funding to export it overseas...which is not exactly novel.

[the hum]

The Ukrainians will be happy to hear that. As will the huge numbers of illegals and assorted riff-raff, who can expect to find themselves re-located to tent-cities.

Mate https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-67015137

But maybe it's a much nicer, kinder wall. A wall of positive thoughts.

[Deano]

I don't really find Trump frightening or see where the "existential threat to democracy" comes from (as if we had democracy in the first place, but that's a separate matter), because Trump amazingly but genuinely has zero interest in political power. There has never been a more predictable public figure or a more extreme example of narcissistic personality disorder. He didn't try to overturn the 2020 election results because he's a dictator, he did it because he was mad on a personal level that he was declared a loser in public.

We are also in a world that's much less stable now though than last time around. Russia and Israel and all the dead babies. So what happens when Putin or Netenyahu or Zelensky say something about him he doesn't like, at the point he's still commander in chief of the armed forces?
I agree with your point, I don't think he's some mastermind that's going to come in and purposefully dismantle democracy, but I also find a massive narcissist with little regard for human life being in control of nuclear weapons and one of the largest armed forces in the world terrifying all on its own.

[checkoutgirl]

He knows what his supporters want, I'll give him that

He's kind of a genius at staying in the news. His fans agree and his enemies click the link to gasp at whatever shit he's come out with now.

I try to ignore him but to be honest I'm a bit mesmerised.

[Deano]

If the two contenders for the next presidency are indeed Biden and Trump, I think the outcome will depend on the proportion of truly unhinged tribal voters each party (malevolent tortoise) has. 

Both candidates are shit, both are liars, both far far too old, both have already been shit presidents, no one sane's going to rise off of their sickbed or battle through snowdrifts to vote for either.  No one's going to have an epiphany and vote the other way because that candidate just outed themself as a terrible fucking cunt or because they've suddenly revealed what a great thing they'd be for us all.  No. 

The election rests solely on the poundage of really stupid invested and already completely committed imbeciles each of these terrible cunts already has in the bag.  Everyone else is going to stay home.  Calling that assinine poundage, though, it's difficult, I'd guess Trump has it.  But it's just a guess, there are some fucking idiotic Biden people out there.

Biden isn't going to motivate anyone to vote, but the prospect of Trump is absolutely going to motivate democrats to get out there.
But I disagree on Trump himself - he is very popular, and honest he's popular with the "we need to something different" and "they're all the same" crowd. You very much push the idea in this thread and others that we need change, we need to do things differently, the current structures of government are failing... go actually listen to Trump - he makes pretty much the same points, and of course, claims that he absolutely *is* that change. And honestly given his propensity for ignoring democratic norms and conventions he's got a point. And while you might not believe that, and basically see no difference between him and Biden, plenty of people do buy into it.

Trump is many things, but he's absolutely not a puppet of the status quo. He will do what he wants to, and won't necessarily listen to "the powers that be." Personally I'm terrified by the direction he would take things in, but I can see why people would find it appealing.

[Buelligan]

We are also in a world that's much less stable now though than last time around. Russia and Israel and all the dead babies. So what happens when Putin or Netenyahu or Zelensky say something about him he doesn't like, at the point he's still commander in chief of the armed forces?
I agree with your point, I don't think he's some mastermind that's going to come in and purposefully dismantle democracy, but I also find a massive narcissist with little regard for human life being in control of nuclear weapons and one of the largest armed forces in the world terrifying all on its own.

Be afraid, that is what you're living with now.

Biden isn't going to motivate anyone to vote, but the prospect of Trump is absolutely going to motivate democrats to get out there.
But I disagree on Trump himself - he is very popular, and honest he's popular with the "we need to something different" and "they're all the same" crowd. You very much push the idea in this thread and others that we need change, we need to do things differently, the current structures of government are failing... go actually listen to Trump - he makes pretty much the same points, and of course, claims that he absolutely *is* that change. And honestly given his propensity for ignoring democratic norms and conventions he's got a point. And while you might not believe that, and basically see no difference between him and Biden, plenty of people do buy into it.

Trump is many things, but he's absolutely not a puppet of the status quo. He will do what he wants to, and won't necessarily listen to "the powers that be." Personally I'm terrified by the direction he would take things in, but I can see why people would find it appealing.

He makes those claims and they're recognised by millions because they're true.  We absolutely do need radical change.  The world is run exclusively for the 1% and we scrabble for crumbs, in the West with more success due to ancient and rapidly melting, privilege.

That's how they do you.  A corrupt man says something's rotten in the state of Denmark, the State allows him to thrive because he is rotten himself.  His rotten-ness rots the trust of the people in the message too.  His rotten-ness means the State can buy out and corrupt any change that comes.  An honest man says the same thing, the State destroys him because it knows, if he thrives, rotten them are over.  Game over.

[gilbertharding]

[Mister Six]

Both candidates are shit, both are liars, both far far too old, both have already been shit presidents, no one sane's going to rise off of their sickbed or battle through snowdrifts to vote for either.  No one's going to have an epiphany and vote the other way because that candidate just outed themself as a terrible fucking cunt or because they've suddenly revealed what a great thing they'd be for us all.  No. 

The election rests solely on the poundage of really stupid invested and already completely committed imbeciles each of these terrible cunts already has in the bag.  Everyone else is going to stay home.  Calling that assinine poundage, though, it's difficult, I'd guess Trump has it.  But it's just a guess, there are some fucking idiotic Biden people out there.

Except that Trump 2 would be a disaster for queer people (he'll happily push federal anti-trans laws mimicking those seen in Florida, Texas et al), for immigrants (Trump wants to end birthright citizenship, and make it harder for others to naturalise), for women (Roe v Wade was overturned because Trump was able to stack the Supreme Court with frothing right-wing nutters) and for just about everyone who's not swimming privilege (so I'll be fine, naturally).

Yes, damage mitigation is not preferable to improving life as far as motives to vote go, but there are absolutely solid reasons for non-idiots to vote for Biden.

[Buelligan]

How's it going for the queer people, the women, the children, everyone, under Biden in Gaza?

[Mister Six]

About the same as it would under Trump, except he wouldn't even gesture towards reining Israel in. Didn't realise Palestine was the only thing that mattered in the world to anyone at all, and that women, immigrants and queer people in the US can go fuck themselves because Buelligan's pet project won't be fixed by the Dems or Republicans. Cheers for clearing that up.

[Buelligan]

About the same as it would under Trump, except he wouldn't even gesture towards reining Israel in. Didn't realise Palestine was the only thing that mattered in the world to anyone at all, and that women, immigrants and queer people in the US can go fuck themselves because Buelligan's pet project won't be fixed by the Dems or Republicans. Cheers for clearing that up.

Exactly.

Palestine is not the only thing that matters.  But it is a good example of how we trade real life consequences - existential consequences, like your whole family being slaughtered for first world privileges.  Half the time not even noticing we're doing it. 

It is a real tangible example of where Biden's scruples rest.  Where they'd rest for your children, your safety, your rights, if it proved convenient.

If it's all just down to realpolitik and might is right, don't get out the violins for minority groups.

[Mister Six]

Ooh yeah, the first world privilege of not having your child taken away from you because you recognised that they were transgender. The first-world privilege of not being made to bring a pregnancy to term because a right-wing lawmaker doesn't want you to have an abortion.

Given that there are severe existential threats to people within the US, and given that there are no contenders to the presidency likely to emerge within the next 10 months, there are plenty of perfectly acceptable reasons for people within the US to vote for Biden other than being a "committed imbecile" or "fucking idiotic".

[Buelligan]

You certainly seem completely certain and committed to that.  I am happy for you.

[Deano]

Be afraid, that is what you're living with now.

I'm not. Maybe the people of Gaza are. But I don't live there. Selfish? Yes. But yeah, the vast, vast majority of us care more about our own lives and the safety of where we live than that of other places.
If you truly see no difference between Biden dragging the US into a slaughter in Gaza, and Trump dragging the US into a military conflict with Russia or China then I commend your selflessness but it's not the way 99.9% of people are going to think.
I'd rather have a war in the Middle-East than in Western Europe. By a measure of magnitude.

He makes those claims and they're recognised by millions because they're true.  We absolutely do need radical change.  The world is run exclusively for the 1% and we scrabble for crumbs, in the West with more success due to ancient and rapidly melting, privilege.

That's how they do you.  A corrupt man says something's rotten in the state of Denmark, the State allows him to thrive because he is rotten himself.  His rotten-ness rots the trust of the people in the message too.  His rotten-ness means the State can buy out and corrupt any change that comes.  An honest man says the same thing, the State destroys him because it knows, if he thrives, rotten them are over.  Game over.

The "State" as you're referring to seem pretty anti-Trump. It's what I can't get my head around, to be honest. It's not that I don't get why you don't support Biden, it's that, given everything else you say, why you're not at least marginally in favour of Trump? Because you've at least got a guy there who might tell "The State" to fuck off if they make a comment about his weird hair.