New Coen Bros trailer - Inside Llewyn Davis

[QDRPHNC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=r5ngyALMRR4

[vrailaine]

Well, that trailer isn't as good as A Serious Man's anyways.

Didn't think True Grit was that great, like, it was fine, but meh. Cautiously optimistic about this one.

Damn, I want to watch A Serious Man again.

[Noodle Lizard]

I don't think they've done anything particularly good since 'No Country For Old Men' (and even that was a bit iffy for me).  I got the impression that you really had to be a Jewish American to appreciate 'A Serious Man' - was I wrong?

[vrailaine]

I dunno, I didn't like it on first viewing hugely, read up on the Jewish stuff a bit before I watched it again, not hugely though.

[zomgmouse]

I haven't seen the trailer (I try to avoid them where possible, as it creates an incorrect expectation and often ruins the film) but from what I've heard it's like Nashville, but with folk music in New York instead of country music in Nashville.

[CaledonianGonzo]

It's a fairly fertile time and place for the Coens to set a movie and they seem to have captured the vibe pretty well (it looks like a walking talking version of the sleeve of The Freewheelin' Bob Dylan), but I think it's a little too early to tell what sort of tone this is going to have (other than Coen Brothersy).  Will keep a watching brief on this one.

Now to source whatever the hell that Dylan track is.  It's a new one on me.

[SteveDave]

Now to source whatever the hell that Dylan track is.  It's a new one on me.

It's from the Bootleg Demos Vol 9- The Witmark Demos.

[Cerys]

Chances that the cat survives to the end of the film...?

[QDRPHNC]

I thought A Serious Man was an extraordinary film, so it would be unfair to expect anything else to measure up. In my opinion, the Coens have only produced two serious stinkers, Intolerable Cruelty and The Ladykillers.

True Grit, while not measuring up to their best, was still very good, I thought. Oh fuck it, I'll just rank them:

1. A Serious Man
2. Raising Arizona
3. No Country for Old Men
4. Fargo
5. The Hudsucker Proxy
6. The Big Lebowski
7. Miller's Crossing
8. Burn After Reading
9. Barton Fink
10. True Grit
12. The Man Who Wasn't There
12. Blood Simple
13. O Brother Where Art Thou

** Quality Cliff **

14. The Ladykillers
15. Intolerable Cruelty

[Stone Cold Jane Austen]

Ooh that looks like fun

Exemplary filmmaking:

1: The Big Lebowski
2: Fargo
3: Miller's Crossing
4: True Grit
5: Barton Fink
6: A Serious Man
7: No Country For Old Men
8: Blood Simple

Still pretty decent:

9: O Brother Where Art Thou?
10: The Man Who Wasn't There
11: Raising Arizona

Under par (but still worth a watch):

12: Hudsucker Proxy
13: The Ladykillers
14: Intolerable Cruelty
15: Burn After Reading

[Johnny Townmouse]

That trailer looks awful but Oooh, I like a list!

1. Miller's Crossing
2. No Country For Old Men
3. Fargo
4. Barton Fink
5. A Serious Man
6. The Man Who Wasn't There
7. True Grit
8. Blood Simple
9. Raising Arizona
10. Hudsucker Proxy

Then the rest:
The Big Lebowski
Burn After Reading
O Brother Where Art Thou?
The Ladykillers
Intolerable Cruelty

I think Raising Arizona is the only Coen 'comedy' I really enjoy, which is odd because it contains all the elements turned up to 11 as to why I dislike them.

[vrailaine]

I was gonna make a list, but seeing as I went on a Coen Bros binge about 8 years ago and haven't really rewatched many of them since, my list would make no sense to me.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Fargo
The Big Lebowski
No Country For Old Men
Blood Simple
Raising Arizona
O Brother Where Art Thou?
Hudsucker Proxy
A Serious Man
Burn After Reading
The Ladykillers

[Garam]

favourites

1 - The Big Lebowski
2 - Barton Fink
3 - Raising Arizona
4 - Fargo
5 - No Country for Old Men
6 - O Brother Where Art Thou

good

7 - A Serious Man
8 - The Hudsucker Proxy
9 - Miller's Crossing

alright

10 - Burn After Reading
11 - Blood Simple
12 - The Man Who Wasn't There
13 - True Grit

fuck it, still not that bad to be honest

14 - The Ladykillers
15 - Intolerable Cruelty

easy

[QDRPHNC]

Fargo
The Big Lebowski
No Country For Old Men
Blood Simple
Raising Arizona
O Brother Where Art Thou?
Hudsucker Proxy
A Serious Man
Burn After Reading
The Ladykillers

No love for Millers Crossing or Barton Fink? Scandal![nb]Actually, I know it's not fashionable to say so, but I consider both of them more interesting as filmmaking exercises than anything else. They have a lot going for them, but the Coens managed to blend their technical talents with better stories, characters and such later on.[/nb]

[El Unicornio, mang]

I haven't seen either of them (or any of the others I haven't included)! They'll get viewed eventually though.

[QDRPHNC]

I think Raising Arizona is the only Coen 'comedy' I really enjoy, which is odd because it contains all the elements turned up to 11 as to why I dislike them.

I absolutely adore Raising Arizona. Until A Serious Man came along, it was my favourite Coens movie, perhaps my favourite of all time. It so successfully blends absurdity and pathos. It's one of those strange things that happens sometimes, when an artist proves themselves capable of making something that by all rights they shouldn't. Certainly not that early in their career anyway.

[Old Nehamkin]

My list:

1. The Big Lebowski
2. Barton Fink
3. O Brother Where Art Thou
4. No Country for Old Men
5. The Man who Wasn't There
6. The Hudsucker Proxy
7. Miller's Crossing
8. Raiing Arizona
9. A Serious Man
10. Fargo
11. True Grit
12. Blood Simple
13. Intolerable Cruelty
14. Burn After Reading

[Wet Blanket]

It's from the Bootleg Demos Vol 9- The Witmark Demos.

Just to get all Dylan fanboy on your ass, the song is called Farewell and a very sketchy version of it is on the Witmark Demos CD, but the recording on the trailer is an apparently unreleased studio reject from The Times They Are A Changing. I'll be buying the soundtrack just to get my hands on it.

I'm hoping from the trailer that this is the Coens on melancholy Barton Fink form, rather than a madcap folky O Brother... It doesn't look to be an expansive 'Nashville' style drama however, but a small-scale story focusing on the title character. I bet it only plays the art-house circuit, like Serious Man did.   

Looking forward to seeing John Goodman return to the fold, and pleased to have Carey Mulligan and Oscar Isaac reunited after Drive.

[Canted_Angle]

Coen brothers movies just ooze boredom from every pore, that being said I do like Hudsucker Proxy. No Country For Old Men was really the last straw for me when it came to giving them the time of day, it's such a nowhere incomplete film. I don't know whether its their 'thing' but there's never a sense of satisfactory resolve or satisfaction at the end of a Coen brothers movie. I still can't fathom how they beat There Will Be Blood at the Oscars.

[Garam]

Fargo definitely had a complete ending, though. And Miller's Crossing. Uhh...and Raising Arizona, actually...


What did you find 'incomplete' about No Country? It's a perfectly paced thriller to me, with the most gorgeous portrayal of Texas I think I've ever seen.

[Delete Delete Delete]

I assume he means the deliberate non showing of the events at the end. It the Coens subverting expectations of the audience and the genre  whilst making a statement about the pointlessness of the character we thought we were following through the film.

[QDRPHNC]

What did you find 'incomplete' about No Country? It's a perfectly paced thriller to me, with the most gorgeous portrayal of Texas I think I've ever seen.

That ending rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, because they wanted to find out what happened to Anton and the money.

I assume he means the deliberate non showing of the events at the end. It the Coens subverting expectations of the audience and the genre  whilst making a statement about the pointlessness of the character we thought we were following through the film.

I'm sort of with you on this one. Generally, most movies attempt to pay off logically (intellectually?) and emotionally, whereas the Coens are content sometimes to just offer the latter. Either that sits well with a particular viewer or not. Personally, I love it, and with something like No Country for Old Men, if the emotional themes of the movie click with you, then the ending is just about perfect.

Can't give the Coens all the credit for that, as it's basically identical to the novel, but fair play to them for not changing it for the different expectations of a movie audience.

A Serious Man worked that same way, and pushed the idea even further. If you didn't "get" what was mostly unspoken, I can't see that movie making any sense at all, except as a character study.

[checkoutgirl]

No love for Millers Crossing or Barton Fink? Scandal!

I have to say that I'm not mad about Barton Fink myself. It had a lot of symbolism in it that I didn't get. I'm not saying that it's a bad film, just that I didn't like it. Burn After Reading was a bit shit. O Brother Where Art Thou was a pointless piece of crap with an annoying theme tune.

All other Coen films I either like or love. Except for Intolerable Cruelty and The Ladykillers, which I haven't seen and probably never will.

[Old Nehamkin]

Fargo definitely had a complete ending, though. And Miller's Crossing. Uhh...and Raising Arizona, actually...

Yep, plus Blood Simple, and The Hudsucker Proxy, and The Big Lebowski, and O Brother Where Art Thou, and The Man who Wasn't There, and True Grit. The whole "Their films don't have proper endings" cliche is really just a myth.

[QDRPHNC]

I have to say that I'm not mad about Barton Fink myself. It had a lot of symbolism in it that I didn't get. I'm not saying that it's a bad film, just that I didn't like it. Burn After Reading was a bit shit. O Brother Where Art Thou was a pointless piece of crap with an annoying theme tune.

O Brother had it's charms, and Burn After Reading improved on repeat viewings. But yeah, not their finest moments.

All other Coen films I either like or love. Except for Intolerable Cruelty and The Ladykillers, which I haven't seen and probably never will.

You're not missing much. Watching them was a strange experience, almost as though they were made by Coen fanboys who understood the "quirkiness" part of their appeal and not much else.

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

If I recall correctly, the novel of No Country... continues for a short while after the point where the movie ends, but doesn't really add anything else to the overarching themes. The movie ends where it needs to for the story it's telling. It's unquestionably abrupt, but it ties into the concepts that the story was exploring. I'm always interested to hear what people make of the ending, whether they loved/hated it.

A Serious Man is basically Schrodinger's Cat in Movie form - a theme they've explored before. If people hadn't caught that aspect, I can imagine it would be a hugely frustrating watch.

One of the huge problems with Intolerable Cruelty is that, in emulating a Carey Grant style comedy, Catherine Zeta Jones has the appropriate glamorous Hollywood starlet look, but she's simply not funny in any way shape or form.

[Zetetic]

A Serious Man is basically Schrodinger's Cat in Movie form - a theme they've explored before. If people hadn't caught that aspect, I can imagine it would be a hugely frustrating watch.

Would you mind expanding on that?

[Sexton Brackets Drugbust]

Would you mind expanding on that?

Not at all, although reading my comment back, I didn't mean to sound quite so supposedly authoratative as it reads.

The short folktale at the start is essentially a microcosm of one of the themes of the film and is the most recognisable parallel to Mr. Schrodinger's concept. The woman accuses her husband's guest of being a Dybbuk and stabs him. The stabbed guest leaves the house laughing and we are left with an unresolved situation - was it the wife, or her husband who was correct. Like the cat conundrum, the answer is both, until you open the box - or in this case leave the house - to determine if the man died or indeed lives on as an evil spirit.

Larry Gopnik specifically refers to the principal at one point in the film and this sense of not knowing and having to learn to accept the mystery inherent in a cruel and unfair universe, is one of the recurring motifs throughout the movie and Larry suffers because he wants straight answers - as do the audience if they are similarly minded.

I've not watched it for a good long while, so I can't be as detailed, specific or informed as I'd like and obviously, there are other elements going on - the Job parallels for a start - but I think it's a really worthwhile avenue to consider.

[QDRPHNC]

Larry Gopnik specifically refers to the principal at one point in the film and this sense of not knowing and having to learn to accept the mystery inherent in a cruel and unfair universe, is one of the recurring motifs throughout the movie and Larry suffers because he wants straight answers - as do the audience if they are similarly minded.

I saw it a little differently, the movie was underlining the importance of action in order to be an effective agent in the world (which seems to be a very Zen point of view. Good intentions mean nothing if you don't act on them and all that. And not necessarily "good" or "bad" actions, because in the grand scheme, how can you possibly know? Any action). Larry doesn't do anything. He doesn't stand up for himself. He says, "I didn't do anything!" repeatedly, and it's true. He has a run-in with the Columbia Records people because he "didn't do anything". And the longer Larry continues to not do anything, the worse and worse his life becomes. And, tellingly, when he describes Schrodinger's Cat to his class, he doesn't say, "Is the cat dead or alive?" He says, "Is the cat dead or not dead?" Larry is alive, but he isn't living, because he has no will of his own.

His dreams are his subconscious, urging him to take the right courses of action, but always end with Larry's fear overriding his ability to actually go through with them. The oldest, and wisest rabbi won't speak to him because he knows there is nothing he can say beyond empty platitudes ("consider the parking lot!") and that Larry has to travel this path to understand, not just be told, not just know.

Spoiler alert

And of course, at the end, he does do something, he rolls over once again for the Asian student and his father. In my reading of it, if Larry had stuck to his guns and graded the student fairly instead of taking the bribe, the doctor would have called a second later telling him everything was fine, and the hurricane would have missed his son's school. But instead, he now has a terminal illness and his son might be injured or dead. Larry's continued inaction causes the universe to pile greater and greater miseries upon him.

[close]

If I recall correctly, the novel of No Country... continues for a short while after the point where the movie ends

I just checked my copy of the novel, and you are bang wrong. You're right about it filling it more details generally and it gives Anton a bit more flesh (to his detriment, I think), but it ends with the same description of the dream.