Shitcoin

[Big Jack McBastard]

Mining Bitcoin isn't financially viable as the electricity it uses costs more than the resulting Bitcoin.

Ok, now like everyone else I know that you get your computer to do maths to 'mine' Bitcoins and that this was easier in the past cos they were easier to get and it now it's like what Consignia done said there ^.

Right, so.

What?

Ok so your computer figures out some bit of an algorithm that was made by dodgy Russians with these pieces 'bitcoins' embedded within it like cookies in a pile of shit.

Abundant at the start less as you go, so that means there's a finite number of Bitcoins yes? How was that determined, the nature of the algorithm? What is the algorithm? Was it made purely to contain Bitcoins or are people's PCs working out some grand over arching mathematical problem that comprises Bitcoinia? (I imagine not)

Who infused the Bitcoin with value of any sort? Are we to envision a digital mountain that some fucker just farted out of nowhere for dicks to dig through and the only measure of what any standard unit extracted is 'worth' is the amount of effort put into getting it?

See, I, much like you dear reader, don't fucking understand any of this at all really.

Here's my questions:

How many Bitcoins are there and 'can there be' in its current incarnation?

How much have they ever been worth and what would all of them be able to buy you at the moment?

Assuming Consigs point is correct: Are the only people still mining people doing it via botnets/malware to infest others as it's still *kind of* paying off that way?

If there's say 5 billion Bitcoins about and the tipping point comes where no-one can be fucked to mine anymore then what happens to the value of it?

How does a bitcoin have value? How is finding bits of code in an algorithm generating buying power? I know national currencies are flimsy concepts with not much back-up but Bitcoin gives the impression of some fucker saying:

"I've just made a billion Digisprites and stuck them in Fuck You Mountain and if *you* dig them out you are Winrar!"

A load of computer cunts 'fall' for it (OR WISE UP TO THE MAAAANS TRICKS DUUUDE) and start trading real for goods for em, like the dicks paying for a magic phallus-shaped staff in World of Warcraft that some Chinese kid spent the last 8 months grinding for day and night.

So yeah, your thoughts on Bitcoin, cos I can't be bothered going to Wikipedia.

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I think there can only ever be 21million bitcoins. Or 21billion maybe.

My thoughts on bitcoin: it's fucking idiotic. And yet...it keeps hanging on in there.

[syntaxerror]

No one knows how they work and you're never going to get any so I wouldn't waste your time worrying about them.

[MojoJojo]

Ok so your computer figures out some bit of an algorithm that was made by dodgy Russians with these pieces 'bitcoins' embedded within it like cookies in a pile of shit.

Abundant at the start less as you go, so that means there's a finite number of Bitcoins yes? How was that determined, the nature of the algorithm? What is the algorithm? Was it made purely to contain Bitcoins or are people's PCs working out some grand over arching mathematical problem that comprises Bitcoinia? (I imagine not)

Not limited. The algorithm works on the ledger book of every bitcoin transaction that has ever happened. So it requires more work as you go on. But the the theory is computing power increases - and creating new bitcoins rapidly isn't absolutely essential to the system - it's just that any transactions aren't finalised until someone finds the next coin. A think it takes a 10-15 minutes at the moment before a transaction can be considered completed.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Not limited. The algorithm works on the ledger book of every bitcoin transaction that has ever happened.

Already confused, how is solving bits of the algorithm anything to do with the transactions made with Bitcoins? (other than in the sense that they make said transactions possible?) Sounds like time travel or quantum entanglement. Fucking witchcraft or summat.

So it requires more work as you go on. But the the theory is computing power increases - and creating new bitcoins rapidly isn't absolutely essential to the system

Okaaay.

- it's just that any transactions aren't finalised until someone finds the next coin. A think it takes a 10-15 minutes at the moment before a transaction can be considered completed.

Wat? So you 'buy' something worth 200 Bitcoins but have to mine your 201st before that sale does through? So it self perpetuates to some degree and makes at least another coin off the back of each transaction? Is that right?...

How long before that gets intolerable? If the workload increases with every one and it's already 10 to 15 mins per find isn't it a matter of time before the inconvenience of it drags a bit if computing power doesn't keep up? It sounds like it'll end up eating its self as transaction times ramp up and/or the effort to get new coins becomes too much arse to bother with. Then dead currency as no-one wants to trade in them as it. Might take a while for that to happen but still...

Thank you for your assistance, but there's so many more worms in this can.

[olliebean]

I had some once. They were so obviously a stupid idea that I sold them. A couple of years later they were worth about 200 times as much.

Stupid fucking bitcoin.

[Thomas]

I'm reminded of the 'Mystic Marsh' level in Spyro 2, wherein our dragonista hero weaves a convoluted quest before eventually locating a special gold coin (which is then traded for a pencil).



Could be that.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

If I got a bitcoin I'd fucking twat it

[Blumf]

If I got a bitcoin I'd fucking twat it

Because it makes a cool 'ba-ding!' noise when you do that, like in Mario.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Also are we all being 'blue pilled' by people raking in Bitcoins when they say it's not worth mining anymore? What if it's TOTALLY worth it and they're hoodwinking us you guise? What if it's 9/11 all over again?

Someone mentioned Litecoin, I'm guessing that's a competing pseudo-currency. How hard is it to knock one of these things up, could we carve a fake multi-billion £££ niche with a few dubious programmers and some viral PR or would Serbian LADS come round and take forcible possession of my organs for honing in on their turf?

[ZoyzaSorris]

I got myself some bitcoins in early 2012 to buy some mimosa hostilis at a 10% discount. I left some spare money in the exchange and forgot about the whole thing. Towards the end of 2013 I started seeing breathless articles in the mainstream press about how they'd gone up astronomically in value. The 80 quid's worth of bitcoins I bought in 2012 would now be worth about £12000. I scrambled excitedly to drain what I had left in the exchange which I anticipated to be worth a grand or two at least. Unfortunately I'd misinterpreted the whole thing and instead of the 4 or 5 bitcoins I was hoping for my balance read : 10 English pounds. The whole thing drove me a bit insane so I got into Bitcoin trading at the top of the market. Managed to get out just in time before it crashed, very stressful given the total lack of liquidity in the UK market. Losses were just about offset with a successful day or two altcoin trading and came out about 90 quid down overall.

So yeah I havent bothered since.

[MojoJojo]

Already confused, how is solving bits of the algorithm anything to do with the transactions made with Bitcoins? (other than in the sense that they make said transactions possible?) Sounds like time travel or quantum entanglement. Fucking witchcraft or summat.

Okaaay.

Wat? So you 'buy' something worth 200 Bitcoins but have to mine your 201st before that sale does through? So it self perpetuates to some degree and makes at least another coin off the back of each transaction? Is that right?...

How long before that gets intolerable? If the workload increases with every one and it's already 10 to 15 mins per find isn't it a matter of time before the inconvenience of it drags a bit if computing power doesn't keep up? It sounds like it'll end up eating its self as transaction times ramp up and/or the effort to get new coins becomes too much arse to bother with. Then dead currency as no-one wants to trade in them as it. Might take a while for that to happen but still...

Thank you for your assistance, but there's so many more worms in this can.

Actually, I was talking bollocks about why it gets harder to generate bitcoins.

All the nodes in the bitcoin network are competing to sign the next block - because you get a bitcoin for doing this. So there is an arms race which means more and more processing power is thrown at the problem. This is managed by a difficulty setting which limits the number of acceptable nonces[nb]I'm not making this up[/nb], and the difficulty is adjusted so that on average 6 bitcoins are mined an hour.

So there is no limit to the number of bitcoins, but it takes more and more processing power to mine them. It's really not feasible to make money mining bitcoins unless 1)You have a enough money to build an energy efficient data center 2) you have a source of cheap/free electricity - preferably both. If you have solar panels on your roof you can mine when they are generating an excess of electricity, as that's essentially free (you get paid for the generated electricity whether you use it or feed it into the grid).

The other way of course is trick/hack people to do the mining for you on their electricity bit - a la uTorrent.

[Replies From View]

Is this the wrong thread to ask what the fuck everyone is talking about?

[Pdine]

Of course like most aspects of the internet the basics of the technology were discovered by cowboys, who would bite coins in order to establish their bona fides.

[chand]

Is this the wrong thread to ask what the fuck everyone is talking about?

Bitcoin is essentially fake money for dweebs and Ron Paul enthusiasts. Imagine an economy, yeah, but built entirely on theory and computing power, and involving somewhere in the region of zero women ever.

[Big Jack McBastard]

Even the people who use them are hazy on the details.. Fuck me.

So is this right?

[Mary is not amused]

An old article, Why I want Bitcoin to die in a fire:

Like all currency systems, Bitcoin comes with an implicit political agenda attached. [...]

For starters, BtC is inherently deflationary. There is an upper limit on the number of bitcoins that can ever be created [...]

Libertarians love it because it pushes the same buttons as their gold fetish and it doesn't look like a "Fiat currency". [...] Nation-states don't control the supply of it, so it promises to bypass central banks. [...]

To editorialize briefly, BitCoin looks like it was designed as a weapon intended to damage central banking and money issuing banks, with a Libertarian political agenda in mind—to damage states ability to collect tax and monitor their citizens financial transactions.

[Danger Man]

The yellow circle says 'Your Mum'?

I'm in.

Spoiler alert

kyak kyak

[close]

[MojoJojo]

An old article, Why I want Bitcoin to die in a fire:

Hmmm - he's has a point about the ultimate limit of the number of bitcoins. Purecoin does the same thing, which makes me wonder if there is engineering reason for it rather than a political one.

He does make the same mistake I did with comparing mining bitcoins with searching for prime numbers. Bitcoins don't get intrinsically harder to mine - there is a mechanism that deliberately controls the rate they can be produced.
On his downsides:

1)Mining BtC has a carbon footprint from hell (as they get more computationally expensive to generate, electricity consumption soars). This essay has some questionable numbers, but the underlying principle is sound.

2)Bitcoin mining software is now being distributed as malware because using someone else's computer to mine BitCoins is easier than buying a farm of your own mining hardware.

3)Bitcoin violates Gresham's law: Stolen electricity will drive out honest mining. (So the greatest benefits accrue to the most ruthless criminals.)

4)Bitcoin's utter lack of regulation permits really hideous markets to emerge, in commodities like assassination (and drugs and child pornography).

1 -  yes.
2 - hmm. Bad people do bad things.
3 - I need to read more on this, but a quick glance suggests he's talking out his arse. Or at least referencing Gresham's law is inappropriate.[nb]bitcoin heating system? Also applies to 1.[/nb]
4 - permits?

He talks about avoiding central banks being a tax evasion thing... but government's control of currency is all based on taxation. Your income may be judged on non-currency income *but* you have to pay it pounds. In that view the only difference between bitcoin and gold is that one is physical.

[marquis_de_sad]

2 - hmm. Bad people do bad things.

Making a tautology doesn't stop the original statement from being true. It is bad that people use the CPUs of others to mine bitcoins without their permission.

4 - permits?

His wording isn't perfect, but it's clear what he means here. Unregulated transaction methods tend to be used by people who want to pay for things that are illegal.

He talks about avoiding central banks being a tax evasion thing... but government's control of currency is all based on taxation.

That's the point. A lot of Libertarians praise bitcoin and the like because they might be able to bypass any government involvement in currency — and will therefore be "free".

[monolith]

Drugs.

[MojoJojo]

To be honest, I think I was mostly reacting to his unsatisfying books.

Making a tautology doesn't stop the original statement from being true. It is bad that people use the CPUs of others to mine bitcoins without their permission.

They've be using them for something else otherwise - maybe spambot or maybe ransom-ware. Which is worse is a personal judgement.

His wording isn't perfect, but it's clear what he means here. Unregulated transaction methods tend to be used by people who want to pay for things that are illegal.

Well ... yes, but it's not really any different to cash or gold. His description of it is hyperbole. And with bitcoin every transaction is public, even if the members involved are mostly anonymous.

That's the point. A lot of Libertarians praise bitcoin and the like because they might be able to bypass any government involvement in currency — and will therefore be "free".

Well, I don't really understand this well enough to argue it well, but my understanding of how national currencies are enforced is through taxes. That's why we can't all just start using Euros or glass beads - because the government would demand you pay your tax in pounds.

Basically it come's down to the same thing - trading bitcoins is no different to trading gold or cash, except for the physical/virtual distinction.
[/quote]

[glitch]

Bits for cunts

[sick as a pike]

I had 2.3 bitcoin left over from entirely legal purchases. I think they cost me about £30, if that. 1.3 of them went towards a large car repair bill last year when the exchange rate was still favourable, and I got £628.  The remaining 1 bitcoin is still worth £161 today apparently.
In an organisational masterstroke, I have absolutely no idea where my notes are which tell me how to access the thing.
Balls.

[Too Many Cochranes]

Get into Nxt. See my signature for my Nxt address. It's the future. Feel free to send me an encrypted message if you want some tips. The wallet is fucking ace and beats Bitcoin hands down. In my humble opinion it will take over from Bitcoin in a couple of years. Get in early. Also visit supernet.org, which runs on the Nxt.org platform/block chain and the amount of development is staggering compared to Bitcoin. Real cutting edge stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if the consumer banks are very worried. It cannot be stopped as there is no mining pitfalls like Bitcoin: the network is totally decentralised and autonomous.

As long as the Internet exists, Nxt will prevail.

[Too Many Cochranes]

If you want to convert Bitcoin to Nxt one of the best exchanges is Poloniex.com. It's a doddle to sign up: no account verification needed. If you've got a new Nxt account PM me the address and public key and I'll send you 50 or 100 NXT to get you started.

PM me on here first and then via the encypted messaging sevice in the Nxt wallet for tips and tricks too. I'll tell you which are the best assets to buy. I'll be mincing around on the computer all day Sunday.

I'm dead serious about this: the current price of 1 NXT may only be about $0.01 but it is technologically way ahead of Bitcoin.