Lee and Herring rewatch

[Shaxberd]

Merry Sunday, all!

The link has already been posted here but I like Mobbd's suggestion of watching the live show in between series, so here it is again: Fist of Fun live at the Cochrane Theatre.

[Stinky Lomax]

EDIT: I just realised you and Mobbd may have been suggesting we take up a whole week with the live show, but I already watched it when MV embedded it and had this all typed out already!

And here's Series 2 Episode 1!

God, I'd forgotten just how extreme the changes are between seasons. The opening titles are even more cloying now thanks to the new theme tune, but they do fit better with the studio and I think that helps the undercurrent of irony that you can also see in odd touches like making their studio chairs ornate thrones. The clean editing works better as well, and helps with the pacing of the stand-up stuff. I think this is why I prefer this season's presentation - it goes all in on the lifestyle show pastiche, whereas the first season is neither fish nor fowl.
Speaking of the stand-up, it's really strong in this episode. Moves through a bunch of concepts while keeping them tied together and it's got some great bits like "God's prurient interest".
The 'what if an affair but with kitten' sketch is terrible and Stew's acting is only a little less crap than the child performer, but everything else is tops. Peter and Quinlank are at full-strength and the The Girlie Show parody is spot-on. And we get Rod Hull! It's a short bit but already better developed than a lot of their S1 runners were on first appearance. The marriage sketch is a lot better too - more ideas in there, Rich is a better actor, the FoF troupe get a load of nice moments and it's well directed.
It's interesting how now they've worked their way through a lot of their old material and coming up with new stuff, it's more zeitgeisty (the lottery, Joan Collins etc) and so feeds into the magazine show thing.

So, in summary, a very strong start that proves me objectively correct about this being the better season.

Sidenote: that first old man in the Quinlank sketch looks a lot like Adam Buxton's dad, though I can't find any evidence for it.

[Shaxberd]

Ooh, me schedule's all over the place now!

Nah, I'll just watch both. Amused that the way the Youtube play icon obscures Rich's face in that thumbnail made me do a doubletake because on a passing glance I'd mistaken him for Peter Kay.

[madhair60]

i do not believe that old man is Baadad.

[Stinky Lomax]

No, same. Looks familiar, though. Maybe the commentary sheds some light on him...

[Shaxberd]

Having ignored my own invitation to watch the live show first, I've skipped ahead and now realise that the reason I have no memories of s1 is because I never saw that at all - this is the version of Fist of Fun I recall. "Cheg on God! You am a twart!"

The new version is a lot slicker! To some extent I miss the scrappy grunginess and abundant freezeframes, but it fits the magazine-show concept much better. Their outfits are slicker, too, Stew in a suit and Richard's shirt being limited to a block colour.

Peter's bit is excellent - I love his portable trolley of filth and abundance of odd little details, from his pronunciation of Valentine's to the detail that the playing card was found 'stuck to a cat's paw'. Kevin Eldon is also on extremely strong form this episode. As well as the first TV appearance of the False Rod Hull I really enjoyed his gusto in the Quinlank sketch and the bit where he falls over and keeps moving like a broken wind-up toy in the zombie/bodysnatchers sketch.

That said, the observation that the studio stuff is stronger than than the sketches remains the same so far. The kitten one was rather predictable and the bodysnatchers one doesn't add much to the hackneyed idea of men perceiving marriage as giving up your individuality and becoming domesticated. I did enjoy how hard Sally Phillips went at playing the manic villain, though, and Richard waking up in bed wearing a shirt saying "Aaah!"

Lots of great stuff in the studio bits, though. I particularly enjoyed the little old lady lottery winner being physically carried away by the men in singlets. Already mentioned False Rod Hull but fuck he's good, Eldon had me laughing from the moment he opened his mouth. I imagine keeping a straight face during the bit where he talks about how he wants to marry jelly was quite difficult.

[Magnum Valentino]

I've done a quick OCR pass of the subs for S1. I've only briefly scanned through them but they looked okay so should do the trick.

https://easyupload.io/6cj27a

Any chance you could do this for series 2 of it's handy? If not I might be able to extract them a different way.

I don't have the series 2 DVD anymore folks so can't provide any more liner notes but I have all the extras and will start uploading commentaries and studio tapes this evening.

[lauraxsynthesis]

Catching up late coz I thought we were just doing the live show.

How can you not love the kitten sketch. It's cute af.

Rich's round innocent little face. How surprised I was to hear years later what a shagger he'd become. 

In the commentary, Rich says he thinks he and Stu might have made up the Michael Fagan masturbating in the Queen's ear urban myth. Anyone know of an older mention of it? I'm sure Joe Cornish alluded to it years later possibly on 6Music.

Peter doesn't have gross dirty teeth in this one and is less gross and dirty over all. I wonder what the thinking was - too much of a contrast with the clean set?

Pretty accurate spoof of The Girlie Show, from what little I can remember.

It's great to see an arse rubbing still on Quinlank's wall. That dude is deffo not Old Mr Buxton. How would a sketch like that be done now? What music would someone play a Boomer man to get him to follow you home and how would he be dressed?

In the commentary they spot a teenage Katy Brand in the audience.

False Rod Hull might be my favourite thing L&H ever did. What a treat to see it's funny right from the off and it's all down to Eldon, his big performance and his faces and sparkly eyes. It turns out from the commentary that the screechy voice is because Kev had a cold and said he couldn't do an impression so he came out with that instead. There's some lore for the ages. Also, it was meant to be a one-off sketch. Could have been a Rik Mayall character - rewatch this bit with that in mind and you might wonder like I do if Kev was consciously influenced by Rik. I don't think there's another time Stew corpses so delightfully as here.

Oh dear it's Tom Binns.

I like the laugh when the audience recognise Peter in the anti-marriage sketch.

In this one they have a go at Smith & Jones. I wonder if it was a conscious decision to slag off other comedy shows/performers in every episode.

[Shaxberd]

What music would someone play a Boomer man to get him to follow you home and how would he be dressed?

Queen, and he'd be wearing a polo shirt and those trousers you can zip off to turn into shorts.

[Mobbd]

S2E1

[I did indeed mean for us to watch Live this week but never mind. I would have given us an extra week of rewatch to enjoy! But never mind. And I'll watch Live next and leave some useless thoughts]

I always thought I agreed with Stew that S1 was superior to the new "shiny floor show" format. I find myself agreeing with Stinky though. If this episode is anything to by, Season 2 is stronger.

You lot didn't like the cat sketch [EDIT: Laura did, hooray!] but I thought it was okay. Good cat casting at least. And was that the Robson & Jerome version? Now that's a double act! Rich and Stew introduced them on TotP too.

A Sonny Rollins record in the background at one point. Probably Stew's actual copy if not his actual house.

"How wise his fat words seem"

Peter's catering trolley! Hooray!

Can we take a second to appreciate the extra level of Peter's phrasing of things? His parents making him move out in 1978 is all well and good, their "needing my room" for anything is good because it's so callous and everyone seems to hate Peter, but "to store some jars" of all the things. "some jars". It's music.

Does anyone know how Pete's bits were written? Was it all his own work or did they write it together? "Valenteens" feels very L&H somehow but the rest has a very distinct and independent [chicken lolly] flavour.

Best Pete bit so far imo. Love Alan Milk Carton Body. His found balloons. Those "balloons," that the trolley was found behind a hospital and that the Oxtail soup can was from down by the toilet: PB is really going for uniquely squalid.

The old man really looked like Nigel Buxton for a second, yeah, but defs not him.

I'll never forget the sinister "Aaaaaa-meeeeeen" from Quinlank. Still say it sometimes.

The audience liked the "What you've done there" now that it's established. I don't remember kids doing that one in the playground though.

But I do remember us all doing I AM HIM! etc.

What's the history of Rod Hull? Was he on the radio version or Nimrod or anything or is this is first appearance?

As Shax says, Sally really raises that basic laddish sketch. Mind you, Rich's t-shirt and the lobster were pretty good as well.

[madhair60]

I don't have the series 2 DVD anymore folks so can't provide any more liner notes but I have all the extras and will start uploading commentaries and studio tapes this evening.

I have the liner notes - i emailed GFS and asked nicely :)

What happened to us − is one of us dead yet?

1995 should be remembered as the year Lee and Herring 'broke through.' It was a year which began and ended with series of their popular Radio 1 show infecting the airwaves; the year of the grand debut on BBC2 of Fist of Fun; a year filled with excessive touring and the release of a book, live video and CD. The fanbase was growing, the critics were − for the most part − heavily laden with nice words and bouquets.

And yet the BBC seemed cautious over allotting a second series, insisting that the show's quick-burst graphics and downbeat music had bracketed it as a 'youth' programme and alienated a large section of the market.

The big decision was finally reached in late-November 1995 and Series 2 was given a green light, pending "a coupla little changes."

They had a choice: either wait until 1997 and do the series on a full budget, or take the next available slot in February 1996. The latter would involve relocating the whole production to BBC Manchester with about two thirds the previous allotted resources − presumably the final jangles of loose change in the arse-pocket of BBC North that financial year.

Electing to strike while the iron was hot they grabbed the February 1996 vacancy and, after some intense BBC boardroom discussions (during which framed portraits of the previous comedy generation looked down upon them, mockingly) grudgingly accepted several proposed format changes, including a move back to Television Centre in London.

Out went the old 'BBC basement' set with its dangerous scaffolding, stained urinal walls and gloomy clutter. In came a painfully bright L.E. soundstage awash with shocking primary colours. It was however much cheaper, and by cutting costs on the studio set (and recording two of the shows in one session) they could at least add a few more pre-filming dates.

Out went the old signature tune (on Sarah Smith's insistence). In came an inappropriately catchy new theme composed by Jonathan Whitehead (so catchy in fact that Rich could often be heard humming snatches of it between takes). The title sequence was also re-edited to appear less imposing, its fake black letterbox reduced to a more calming white and much of the stroboscopic imagery removed.

Accordingly, out went most of the info-bursts, stings and inserts, rendering a show which its creators had painstakingly devised to boast a a unique 'look' rather 'trad'-looking. Where Series 1 always left viewers with the impression that there was another show hidden behind the performed material, Series 2 would have to rely on the strength of the performed material alone − not helpful considering the amount of time they had to actually construct and fill the six half-hour shows (as they described it at the time, doing 'four months work in two').

This time round the shows would be recorded very close to the transmission date. On the positive side this would potentially generate more 'user access' − the audience could provide instant feedback to which parts of the new format were working (not to mention an opportunity to cover topical events). On the downside it would inevitably lead to longer studio sessions. Unlike Series 1, which had the luxury of last-minute 'pick-ups' at later recordings, Series 2 would need every possible angle well and truly covered on the night ready for editing the following day. For a comedy team who remained fiercely on-script this wouldn't necessarily have posed a problem but, well, this was Lee and Herring.

Luckily, Series 2 would also acquire a very efficient new floor manager in the form of Jemma Rodgers, permanently on-hand to relay and translate Sarah Smith's gallery-exiled hair-pulling and garment-rending into something approaching plain English for the performers on the soundstage to gleefully ignore.

It is perhaps a glowing testament to everyone involved that Fist of Fun Series 2 didn't emerge as a completely unwatchable mess. Instead, it's fair to say that, after a bit of a dodgy start it soon picks up nicely and can hold its head up quite proudly alongside Series 1. There are flaws, certainly, but oh for a comedy world which produces such glorious flaws.

Looking back on the show at a safe distance, Stewart and Richard now seem more convinced than ever that an increase in running gags, recurring characters and shorter sketches would have provided the solution to its problems; would have made it far more popular, and would have ensured it a permanent place in the annals of British comedy sketch show history.

Maybe it would. But that show wouldn't have been Fist of Fun...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fist of Fun −  Series 2, Show 1
Recorded at BBC TVC, Wednesday, 14 February 1996
Broadcast BBC2, Friday, 16 February 1996

   RICHARD
   Not as good as the first series, is it?

The first studio session for Series 2 didn't exactly hit the ground running. Although certainly not as "awful" as Stewart opined the following week, neither the cast nor the audience seem over-bristling with energy and enthusiasm. The terse edit broadcast on BBC2 two days later succeeded in mostly disguising the atmosphere - but at the expense of some terrible casualties along the way.

The topical nature of the series did however ease the workload a little for this first show, falling as it did on Valentine's Day. As such, a shedload of material could be pasted in from the 'Love' episode of Lionel Nimrod's Inexplicable World - including several unbroadcast Love Facts (the graphics of which finally explain the significance of those 'mute unexplained images' at the beginning of the Series 1 rushes).

The first show reintroduced old radio characters, Seahand and Zemquilt, two Hollywood Producers much given to boasting about turning good movie scripts into bad movies. A rather stilted audience response ensured that neither of the VT sketches would make the edit of Show 1, although they were at least slotted into future episodes − unlike Hearts of Paper (another feature which didn't transfer to TV well) and a whole diversion in which Stewart asks the audience what love means to them − featuring some surprising cameos from Graham Linehan and Martin Soan.

And then there was Rod Hull. The audience reaction to Rod's first appearance (arguably the best reaction of the night) must surely have sealed his fate there and then as a regular character. The unedited performance is, of course, an utter joy to watch, with trained actor Eldon effortlessly maintaining a stern, accusatory glare throughout while Stewart and Richard struggle to avoid giggling.

Also well − received is the return of Simon Quinlank on VT, his references to "weak lemon drink" getting an unprompted audience cheer! Meanwhile, Village of the Married proves to be just as much of a "big production number" as the radio version and its mysterious lobster payoff finally gets a TV outing.

The edited show culminated with Illegal Lottery, an altogether more successful use of the interactive format than Hearts of Paper.

At this point the original broadcast ended, rather abruptly, with a fade-in of the sig tune, and Stewart and Richard's final "See you next week − bye!" only heard in voiceover as the closing credits kick in. In fact the sign-off wasn't from this session − or indeed from this series, having been pasted in from Series 1 in an attempt to cheat a 'natural conclusion' to the show which had its big finale cut.

A textbook example of the problems of setting up too many callbacks − if just one of the various strands doesn't work and gets snipped, the subsequent payoff is adversely affected. The main offender in this case appears to be Babearama, the duo's take on Channel 4's The Girlie Show  (with Sally Phillips, Anna Chen and Evelyn Doggart providing a reasonable facsimile of the actual presenters). Planned as an escalating runner throughout the show (with each subsequent appearance becoming increasingly vacuous and depressing - until the presenters' true feminist ideology is secretly revealed). While the first section worked as a standalone, the rest was less successful and either shortened or cut completely.

This planned finale is all present on the studio tape and quite an eye-opener. After being rejoined on the Illegal Lottery set by both Peter and 'Rod Hull,' several strands from previous sketches and routines are woven together into a collective payoff. The Babearama presenters invade the studio with intent to use the show as a platform for world domination, Stewart, Peter and 'Rod' are reduced to a trance-like state as per Village of the Married, and a screaming crescendo is reached as the nice little old lady from the previous sketch also returns, armed with rusty garden shears intent on causing further damage to Richard's crushed, heaven-refused testicles. All gone.

Perhaps a little crestfallen by this experience, the duo tended to structure the remaining shows in the series far more loosely.

Also recorded in the studio on the day of the session was the first Ian News − evidently planned as a regular item (as it had been during the first Lee & Herring Radio 1 series) to close each show. Due to the course of events, only two were ever recorded - and neither made it to Show 1.

[non capisco]

What's the history of Rod Hull? Was he on the radio version or Nimrod or anything or is this is first appearance?

From memory he was a semi-regular on the Radio 1 show that was inbetween the two Fist Of Fun series, I can't remember if it was his first appearance but he was a celebrity voice that was supposed to be the actual Rod Hull in a parody of a contemporaneously running Radio 1 anti drugs campaign ("I AM ROD HULL AND I SAY NO TO DRUGS! TOUCHING CHILDREN'S GENITALS WITH MY HAND DISGUISED AS A BIRD'S MOUTH IS ENOUGH OF A DRUG FOR ME!") and Eldon's shrieking impersonation, entirely free of context and presumably based on a thinning memory of the real Rod Hull, was one of the occasions in my life when I wondered if it was possible to die laughing.

[Mobbd]

LIVE

How lovely that they got Lucy back in for that intro. She's really funny with that legal disclaimer bit. And the bit at the end too.

The tradition of LIVE! versions of telly things being much ruder is true here with the cock-sucking graffiti stuff but they don't go bananas. Rich says fuck later.

You know the "Liar" sketch on Monkeydust that everyone correctly likes? Where he's been out late doing something appalling and his cover story is Fellowship of the Ring or something? Well, it's almost exactly like Rich's bit about confusing Super Mario Bros or something with reality when Stew asks him what he's been up to this week.

The audience seem a bit staid in this, don't they? There's probably something in the show notes about this but I can't be bothered to look. I might read madhair's Reader after all this is over. Ideally we'd read along with the show but I'm struggling to keep up as it is, like a wazzok would.

The repeated-in-quick-succession takes on who Stew looks like happens here, perhaps for the first time, except Rich gets to do them!

I liked that they called back to Spammo and offered a coda to it, but then Donny Oddlegs is back to life again.

"It was in a mortuary but it still counts" - LIVE!

You know, as much as I would have loved seeing L&H live, especially at this point in their career and at this moment in my love for them, none of this quite works. Except for Quinlank, which translates to the stage perfectly and Kevin knows it. The audience love it too, the hobby whores.

The gallery coming down from on high like the Dove from Above was a nice touch, mind.

Not really sure why the show doesn't quite work. It's the same sort of stuff we love in other media. We all loved Kevin as Jesus and Stew refusing to look at him when it was the telly version. But it's not very good for some reason here even though it's just the same. The audience don't like it either, refusing to engage with Rich's pantomime antics. But then Kev saves it by deploying the one thing the audience actually did like.

"The lamb prince" gets a good laugh. Rightly! But it's such a small detail.

Of course, maybe it did work and we're just not feeling the room properly by watching the video version.

[Mobbd]

i emailed GFS and asked nicely :)

Did you tell them about our CaB re-watch?

[Mobbd]

From memory he was a semi-regular on the Radio 1 show that was inbetween the two Fist Of Fun series, I can't remember if it was his first appearance but he was a celebrity voice that was supposed to be the actual Rod Hull in a parody of a contemporaneously running Radio 1 anti drugs campaign ("I AM ROD HULL AND I SAY NO TO DRUGS! TOUCHING CHILDREN'S GENITALS WITH MY HAND DISGUISED AS A BIRD'S MOUTH IS ENOUGH OF A DRUG FOR ME!") and Eldon's shrieking impersonation, entirely free of context and presumably based on a thinning memory of the real Rod Hull, was one of the occasions in my life when I wondered if it was possible to die laughing.

Sensational. I do wonder if we could extend the re-watch by going back to the radio stuff after TMWRNJ.

[Stinky Lomax]

Thanks for sourcing the liner notes, madhair.

Thank fuck Linehan was cut. He managed to weasel his way into far too many 90s/00s Brit comedy classics as is.

[madhair60]

Did you tell them about our CaB re-watch?

I did, in fact. Chris Evans (not that one) says "Hope you are enjoying the re-watch!"

[Magnum Valentino]

Sorry for the delay with the commentaries and studio tapes folks, I'm getting hit with blockages on YouTube that I didn't encounter even once with series 1. Looking for a way around it. Thanks for getting the lovely big wall of text Madhair!

[Pink Gregory]

It's better than 'cat's paw', it's 'stuck to a cat's hand'

[Magnum Valentino]

Sorry for the delay, a lot of copyright issues with series 2 (even in the studio rushes) so I'm trying to find workarounds but chances are I'll have to stick the rest of the extras in a Drive folder.

Commentary:

[Stinky Lomax]

Thanks MV! If it helps, I think the commentaries at least would be fine with distorted video if that helps get around the copyright - flipped upside down, black & white, pixelated etc. As long as we can vaguely see what they're referring to, it serves its purpose...

[madhair60]

don't forget some of the DVD is censored to remove Morris Mitchener and Lady Di, so you'll need the old TV rips (or rushes?) for the full experience

[waste of chops]

Any chance you could do this for series 2 of it's handy? If not I might be able to extract them a different way.

Here you go!

https://easyupload.io/lc6hsm

[lazyhour]

I know we've moved on, but I'm just watching the live show now and it's pretty week, isn't it? A tiny amount of material stretched to absolute breaking point. I'm 17 minutes in now and I feel like I'm still waiting for the actual meat of the show to start.

Hang on, Peter has just turned up!

Edit: I think the audience agrees with me.

[lauraxsynthesis]

I know we've moved on, but I'm just watching the live show now and it's pretty week, isn't it? A tiny amount of material stretched to absolute breaking point. I'm 17 minutes in now and I feel like I'm still waiting for the actual meat of the show to start.

Hang on, Peter has just turned up!

Yeah, the live show wasn't great. Strange to see live comedy so brightly lit, I thought. When I saw them live a couple of years later it was much more assured and the material very well-suited to live as opposed to broadcast.

[madhair60]

i can't remember where I read (maybe the DVD itself)... oh fuck i'll do actual research hang on

fake edit: from Stewart Lee's website:

Not strictly a DVD, but an old VHS release.

This live video of the Lee and Herring double act captures us at our worst, recorded in a rush at the beginning of a tour and with inaudible audience response.

A badly advised venture immediately available in garage forecourt discount bins.
Our performance on the inanely titled Comic Relief live video Rude For A Reason is also shit, and now completely unavailable.

[Magnum Valentino]

Completely unavailable me hole, Stew

[Magnum Valentino]

Here you go!

https://easyupload.io/lc6hsm

Thanks!

[Magnum Valentino]

Morning all. Think the easiest way to get these extras shared is to just let Youtube trim what it tells me it wants to, much more copyright breach on the series 2 set for some reason and I haven't the editing expertise to work around it, so there may be some sections where things are just skipped altogether in the rest of my uploads.

Series 2 Episode 2 Commentary (complete):

Studio Tape to follow when Youtube has done its thing.

[Shaxberd]

Thanks again MV!

Here's today's link: Fist of Fun Series 2, Episode 2.