Russia Vs Ukraine 2: Putin on the Fritz?

[Mister Six]

Sorry for kicking this off when the last thread is only at 99 pages, but I couldn't resist the pun.

Guardian says that Biden will go to Poland this week, and "impose severe and unprecedented costs on Russia". Not clear what those might be, but I wonder what effect this is going to have on the Russian people in general. Building resentment against the West and a hardening of resolve to stand by King Cunt? Or might there finally be enough pressure internally for Putin to pull back? I'm honestly not sure what that might take.

Previous thread here.

Last thing posted in previous thread:

[TommyTurnips]

They should at least amend the no standing sign to say "NO STANDING (unless it's with Ukraine)"

[The Ombudsman]

Has anyone else been watching Russian YouTubers take on the sanctions or what is happening more generally?

Overall seems mixed, older folks think not much of it and often say they have had it worse with Soviet Russia while the younger ones seem more saddened by their governments actions.

[jobotic]

Interesting post from Billy Bragg on Facebook.

It's nice that there's no one in these threads pretending that Putin isn't the fascist aggressor in this conflict, 'cos he fucking is, but this is a good cautionary tale about sharing stuff on social media.

Yesterday evening I posted a clip of the Ukranian band Beton performing their rewrite of 'London Calling'. According to reports, the song 'Kyiv Calling' was approved by the Clash, with funds raised going to the Free Ukraine Resistance Movement.
After a few hours of discussing the lyrics of the song and whether Joe Strummer would approve of the rewrite, a number of people drew my attention to a series of photographs on the band's Facebook page showing members of the band wearing t-shirts based on the Ramones circular logo.
The word 'Ramones' at the top of the logo had been replaced with the word 'Banderas' and although all of the names within the circle were not visible, the one that was clearly read 'Stepan'. The photos dated from a year ago.
This is deeply troubling. Stepan Bandera was a far-right Ukranian politician who collaborated with the Nazis during the occupation of Ukraine and whose followers were complicit in the Holocaust. That he did these things in the name of Ukranian independence from the Soviet Union has led some present day far right nationalists to adopt his image in their decade long struggle with Russia.

The knock on effect of this has been to allow Putin to smear all those who want a democratic Ukraine free from Russian influence as neo-nazis. The lionisation of Bandera explains his attempt to legitimize the invasion as a campaign of 'denazification', despite the fact that when, during the 2019 Ukrainian elections, all of the major far right Ukrainian parties formed a unified party for the national election, they gained just 2.15% of the vote and failed to secure a single seat in the national parliament. Compare that with the 2009 EU parliament election, where the BNP won 6% of the vote.
I left a message on the band's Facebook page asking them to explain why they were wearing t-shirts that appeared to support Bandera, but after 24 hours, I've had no response, so I've deleted my post.
We can argue about the meaning of 'London Calling' and what Joe Strummer would or wouldn't have said about the lyrical changes, but we can be damn sure that he would not have allowed his song to be utilised by a band that expressed their support for fascists.

[Cold Meat Platter]

Not a fucking peep about JK Rowling I notice.
Why does he hate women so much?

[shoulders]

https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/f/liberal-derangement-and-new-world-order

[Fambo Number Mive]

According to the BBC Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 are not allowed to leave the country.

Are Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 banned from leaving the country because they are seen as being needed to fight against the Russian army? What about men with disabilities? Surely anyone who wants to leave Ukraine should be able to?

The ban has also lead to issues for trans women:

Hundreds of transgender women have been turned away at the Ukrainian border while attempting to flee the country, due to their passports still carrying their birth name and gender, charities say.

Changing the gender and name listed on their passport requires a lengthy process, involving several psychiatric assessments - meaning many of the country's transgender population don't go through with it.

But current rules ban Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 from leaving the country - meaning anyone whose passport says "male" is likely to be turned back at the border.

One of Ukraine's main transgender charities estimates there are hundreds of trans women attempting to flee, but that 90% of those it is in touch with have so far failed.

[Paul Calf]

Another year of war and it'll be 17-70.

Another year and it'll be 16-80.

Then they'll scrap the age limits and they'll show propaganda films where Denys wakes up from his double leg amputation and immediately trots off back to the front on his stumps to take on the evil Putinate forces.

[MojoJojo]

According to the BBC Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 are not allowed to leave the country.

Are Ukrainian men aged 18 to 60 banned from leaving the country because they are seen as being needed to fight against the Russian army? What about men with disabilities? Surely anyone who wants to leave Ukraine should be able to?

It's been that way since the war started. Reality of war, innit. A more positive way of looking at it is it's prioritising transport for women and children.

I know of a least one Russian (friend's ex-husband's brother) who is accelerating their plans to move out of the country before something similar happens there. Although I guess the fear there is more a Berlin wall plugging the brain drain type situation than actually being called up to fight.

[jobotic]

Has the Morning Star merged with Spiked, like Cor!! and Buster?

[Fambo Number Mive]

Just reading that article now. Lots of criticism of the West, much of it reasonable as well, but I'm not sure what the author thinks should happen instead other than just agree to whatever Putin wants.

All sides are to blame in this war but it is the US that was best-placed long term to secure peace. Charlie Manson never murdered Sharon Tate but he was still sent down for stirring the shit.

But why should everything come down to the Ukrainian state's sovereign right to do anything it likes, anyway?

What about the self-determination of the Ukrainian people who don't want to be ruled by Russia? Or is self-determination only important when it's the West who are oppressing people?

[poo]

Looked into this Putin guy - seems like a bit of a wally tbh

[idunnosomename]

what am i supposed to think about Ukrainian soldiers tying people to lamposts and spanking their arses etc? there was a massive thread about it on twitter but the user got suspended. even if they are looters they shouldn't be treating anyone that way. some things too about doing the same to Roma people in Lviv, and doing this to them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelyonka_attack

seems to me like there are some utter arsehole bigot squaddies in Ukraine's army. i mean no worse than ours. look what we got up to in Iraq

[Sex Festival Organizer]

I don't have anything else to say, but the title of this thread is absolutely *top tier*. I literally LOLed.

[Pavlov`s Dog`s Dad`s Dead]

It's been that way since the war started. Reality of war, innit. A more positive way of looking at it is it's prioritising transport for women and children.

I know of a least one Russian (friend's ex-husband's brother) who is accelerating their plans to move out of the country before something similar happens there. Although I guess the fear there is more a Berlin wall plugging the brain drain type situation than actually being called up to fight.

My brother-in-law has already left Russia, motivated by the mobilisation notices being received by other reservists (every male Russian graduate is a reservist officer - that's the trade-off for exemption from your two years' national service). He didn't get too much hassle as he left with his family, but apparently younger men were getting the third degree from border officials, and at least one was not allowed to board the flight.

The place where he has ended up is apparently full of youngish Russian IT guys with their families, all of whom are there for the same reason. The locals are apparently very welcoming, although rents are rocketing...

I still reckon the West should be offering asylum to deserters from the Russian army, and to anyone seeking to avoid the draft.

[The Culture Bunker]

A good friend of mine, an artist in Moscow who has been quite open about their opposition to the invasion, found a note stuck to their door today saying "a traitor lives here". Apparently she's far from the only one this has happened to. They'd leave Russia today if they could, but has no means of doing so.

Quite scared for her safety - I shudder to think of what Putin will do as "retaliation" against anyone who didn't show complete obedience after this is over.

[Retinend]

Novara Media, whose two main hosts I find robotic and inscrutable at the best of times, is now positioning itself as a Ukranian-nationalist-skeptic voice on the Western side. This is their video that will "red pill" you on the nazi foundations of Ukrainian nationalism:

In theory, it's good to give context to Putin's proclamation that he would "denazify" Ukraine. Understanding the grain of truth behind a big lie is demonstrative: it shows where propaganda gets its power. But the Novara hosts' own commentary following the archive footage of Ukranian nazis is - as I see it - not trying to contextualize the spread of misinfo: it's trying to contextualize Putin's ongoing war crimes per se, as a proxy for attacking its real enemy: the media, dubbed "mainstream media." Namely, it is attacking said institutions (the kind where journalists work) for supposedly beating the drum of war, in their uncritical support for military aid for Ukranian soldiers.

I predict that as the conflict goes on, this strategy of theirs will pay off, in terms of clicks and subs and "engagement". As a general rule for fringe media (also see the recent Russell Brand thread), the need to posture as a "free thinker" in opposition to the "sheeple" flatters the audience, who can think of themselves as smart for eschewing professional news outlets ("The MSM") and taking their news from Novara and a handful of similar outlets and influencers instead. Ironically, reducing their access to information in the name of thinking freely.

[Bernice]

Media criticism has long been one of NM's raisons d'etre, hasn't it? Why should this change in the face of a conflict that takes up a huge amount of media bandwidth and has elicited an almost uniform (uniformly manichaen, uniformly bellicose) response across almost all the bigger media outlets. Is this A Bad Thing? One could easily tinker with your uncharitable pseudo-psychological formulation of what service 'fringe media' performs for its audience and say something like:

"As a general rule for mainstream media, the need to posture as a "voice of reason" in opposition to the "conspiracists" flatters the audience, who can think of themselves as smart for eschewing fringe news outlets ("Fake news") and taking their news from the BBC and a handful of similar outlets and organs instead. Ironically, reducing their access to information in the name of rational enquiry."

I'm not sure either pithy generalisation – couched in superior accusations of how other people need their ego stroked, but I am smart – would be particularly useful.

To move away from YouTube for a minute, I thought this short article from Richard Seymour for the New Left Review served as a realistic counterpoint to some of the more belligerent common threads in much of the media discourse around this war.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Ukraine summitt. Every world leader made an effort apart from one:



Didn't realise how small he was until now.

[olliebean]

That is him making an effort.

[robhug]

Ukraine summitt. Every world leader made an effort apart from one:



Didn't realise how small he was until now.

I can make an educated guess which one is responsible for the whiff of ammonia circulating around

[The Ombudsman]

You can bet there are egg stains on his cheek too.

What a fucking mess.

[Pinball]

Baggy trousers, jacket undone, bad posture. You're a slacker, Johnson!

[Alberon]

I think we forget the amount of effort he puts into that image. Looking like he's just been woken up and stuffed in a suit that's been in a hedge for a week doesn't just happen by itself.

[Joe Qunt]

I may be alone in this but I couldn't give a fuck how he dresses. He could rock up in leather daddy gear as long as he was competent.

[Alberon]

Instead he specifically dresses up like this as a replacement for competency.

[Icehaven]

Yeah, he's basically saying "Well what did you expect, look at me. Still got in though didn't I?"

[Mister Six]

I don't have anything else to say, but the title of this thread is absolutely *top tier*. I literally LOLed.

Cheers! I like your username, too.

[idunnosomename]

That's it. You're toast, Johnson.

[Head Gardener]

I noticed the forthcoming match between Scotland and Ukraine has been postponed, will the Ukrainian national football team have been conscripted?