Starmer VIII: Labour will set you free

[Paul Calf]

They love the strings. The strings that guide them because they have no policy, no plans, no ideas, no imagination. The strings that will pull them out of this hellhole of sleeping on the Commons benches when they bother to turn up and surgeries in their ghastly provincial constituencies full of smelly, complaining poor people miles from their home in Hampstead or Oxfordshire into a glittering career in a corporation that allows them to more blatantly and profitably shit all over those same people.

[Ferris]

Is this good?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-membership-loss-accounts-deficit-b2146691.html

A loss of £100,000 a week and ~2,000 members a day.

Thank heavens the adults are in charge.

[Blumf]

Do you think we could privatise the Labour Party? Float it on the stock exchange and let the markets decide!

[Armed Traffic Warden]

Do you think we could privatise the Labour Party? Float it on the stock exchange and let the markets decide!

I think it'd do alright. Starmer's a floater.

[Buelligan]

There are about 35 or so MPs,  and the biggest contingent of socialist councillors by far.

Once again, the argument to not support these people only makes sense by clinging to a falsehood which is that one must choose between doing one or the other action rather than both (or many).

I don't see that as the argument.  I see it as a question of how to either save or destroy the Labour Party (and so, the country).  IMO, it can only be saved if it starts doing what it's supposed to do.  That would involve a huge change in personnel.  We tried running it with those cunts in place and they cut the legs off of it.  So they have to go.

In a democracy, the only way to do that is to remove their mandate.  Or wait for them to change voluntarily or die.  We don't really have the time for the second option.  As long as we keep giving them a mandate, they will continue helping the tories to shift the old overton.  They will continue running the Party and the hopes of the country, into the ground.

There IS an Alternative.  Or there can and should be one.  Helping them to continue wrecking and denying it is doing the tories' job for them.  We all know it.

[thugler]

I don't see that as the argument.  I see it as a question of how to either save or destroy the Labour Party (and so, the country).  IMO, it can only be saved if it starts doing what it's supposed to do.  That would involve a huge change in personnel.  We tried running it with those cunts in place and they cut the legs off of it.  So they have to go.

In a democracy, the only way to do that is to remove their mandate.  Or wait for them to change voluntarily or die.  We don't really have the time for the second option.  As long as we keep giving them a mandate, they will continue helping the tories to shift the old overton.  They will continue running the Party and the hopes of the country, into the ground.

There IS an Alternative.  Or there can and should be one.  Helping them to continue wrecking and denying it is doing the tories' job for them.  We all know it.

Is the alternative not trying to get them to support PR, and then splitting the party the moment it goes through. Anything else is a pipe dream.

[Buelligan]

The alternative is to stand in solidarity together and vote for people who will make it their business to ensure that people have enough money to live on.  Decent places to live.  Sufficient food.  Free education, healthcare and support in age or need.  People who will make sure tax is paid by those who can afford to.   Who will protect our planet.  Who don't lie to them.  People who are not evil.

If that's a pipe dream, why bother to live?

[Paul Calf]

Without PR, it's going to lead to more of the same.

[Buelligan]

PR is fine and good but carrying on voting for the pack of cunts running Labour in the hope of squeezing PR out of them is just another way of getting yourselves lied to, cheated and let down again.  Take their mandate first, as long as they're in this fight, they'll screw you.  That is my advice.

[shoulders]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/19/labour-sets-out-plan-to-link-minimum-wage-to-cost-of-living

Better, but still about subsidising people to be on the bottom with no institutional reform.

[Paul Calf]

"An extra £832 a year" sounds better than "£9.90 an hour" which is fucking bullshit.

[Sebastian Cobb]

If it was enough to live on they'd just say they were going for a living wage.

[Famous Mortimer]

There are about 35 or so MPs,  and the biggest contingent of socialist councillors by far.

Once again, the argument to not support these people only makes sense by clinging to a falsehood which is that one must choose between doing one or the other action rather than both (or many).

What are those 35 or so MPs and tons of socialist councillors actually doing, though?

Are the 100,000 people who left the Labour Party this year all stupid?

[shoulders]

Yep it's Melt politics. Arguably the Tories did more initially when they reappropriated Living Wage.

[shoulders]

What are those 35 or so MPs and tons of socialist councillors actually doing, though?

Fucking embarrassing.

[Johnny Yesno]

https://www.newstatesman.com/encounter/2022/08/mick-lynch-starmers-labour-could-be-another-version-of-the-tories

It did feel like this interview from the New Statesman was the melts tentatively looking around for justification not to back them.

Nuanced views on World Affairs? Hmmm, suspicious. Questioning the EU? How disappointing. Not sold on Kieth? Well we've got to get the Tories out first, Mick, it's no time for purity politics. Old Labour eh? Why, how quaint.

^Following on from this.

James O'Brien challenges how Mick Lynch views the EU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85cb4gKPpDs

[Buelligan]

Jesus, I would never watch anything that included James O'Brien, the centrists' own Quisling or HawHaw, a far greater cunt, that does far greater harm, than any number of Portillos or Brillos.  I seriously despise that man.

[shoulders]

Yeah, fuck this, Lynch needs to not get sidetracked and to stick to the domestic economic message and what he's paid to do for his members.

They're all desperately trying to find wedge issues people can use to turn against the activism that's going to actually bring about real change.

[shoulders]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/15/left-age-right-labour-youthful-idealism

Be nice to staple this in front of my brother's eyes. Same age,  same journey,  unfortunately still a centrist so not same destination.

[Paul Calf]

Are you a twin?

[shoulders]

Are you a twin?

No? He is same age,  same journey as the author of the article.

[Buelligan]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/15/left-age-right-labour-youthful-idealism

Be nice to staple this in front of my brother's eyes. Same age,  same journey,  unfortunately still a centrist so not same destination.

That's a really great article, I'm amazed The Guardian printed it.  Particular stand out bits were

As Labour held power over 13 years, I gradually saw most opportunities for transformative change rot away. In that time, I became incredibly disillusioned, but still voted for them. There were several reasons for this. First, like young adults now who have grown up under David Cameron, Theresa May and Boris Johnson, if you were born in the late 1970s, you came of age only knowing a cruel, divisive and seemingly unending Tory government. Whatever Labour did, it had to be better than the Tories, simply because Labour was not the Tories.

and

And yet, to some, there were still reds under the bed, and they needed to be vanquished at all costs. As a student in 1994, my best friend –then at Manchester University and, like me, a member of Labour Students – reported with approval that he'd received a Christmas card from someone high up in the campaign to get Tony Blair elected. Instead of "Season's Greetings", the message inside read: "Keep kicking the Tories and the hard left".

In the 1980s, as now, it was very easy to hate the Tories and "the Trots" without particularly articulating what it was you were for. Defining your outlook by what you were against was so much easier. We didn't stop too long to ask what sort of a Labour government we were after, only that one was necessary and largely involved more attacking than defending.

I've thought about this a lot in recent weeks, as Keir Starmer dedicates himself to making Labour the party of "not-Tories" rather than a movement that stands confidently for its founding values of equity and justice. It was the incredible surge of enthusiasm and optimism during the Jeremy Corbyn period that made me recognise, with a shudder of shame, that it was people around my age who could have done things differently. What right does Starmer have to throw away that enthusiasm, to crush that optimism, and say, "let's keep things as they are, only this time there'll be no money to spread around a bit more fairly"? It won't be long before he finds out that not only is he wrong, but he's done it all for nothing.

but the whole of it is certainly worth reading and thinking about.  Thanks for linking it.

[Paul Calf]

No? He is same age,  same journey as the author of the article.

Ahhh. Sorry, I'm being dense innit.

[Johnny Yesno]

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If you're tardy like me, here's a reminder that the NEC voting closes at noon next Friday 26th August.

The following link is a guide as to which order to put the candidates in (yes, it's important and it's different for each region):

https://www.clpd.org.uk/resource/how-should-i-vote/

And here's a guide to which candidates to choose for the NPF22 elections (again, different for each region):

https://peoplesmomentum.com/transforming-labour/national-policy-forum-2022/

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[evilcommiedictator]

Australian faux-government satire "The Juice Media" have done another "Honest Government" ad, but this time, for the UK.

I'm interested to se what actual UK people think of it, to me it seems to be a bit shallow (but at least pushing action, as opposed to Keith), and missing obvious jokes like a raw sewerage one at the start, or putting an actual UK one at the end, like
"Authorized by the Queen, in 2 months time, so until then you're on your own bitches"
"Authorized by The Crown, just like the assassination of Princess Diana"
"Authorized by Prince Andrew, after his recent visit to Pizza Express in Woking"

Also the dude's wife, who does the voices for the actresses, can't do any type of British accent.

[Johnny Yesno]

Pretty good. It's slightly reassuring to know people outside can see how bad Normal Island is getting.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Pretty good. It's slightly reassuring to know people outside can see how bad Normal Island is getting.

Pity Clarke and Dawe aren't still on the go.

[Buelligan]

Pretty good. It's slightly reassuring to know people outside can see how bad Normal Island is getting.

Don't worry, over here on the mainland it's being noticed with horror.

[shoulders]

Breaking News

The Labour Party have just announced that they are extending the deadline for this year's NEC and NPF elections to 17.00, Tuesday 30 August.

_____________________________________________

Don't miss your chance to vote in the Labour NEC and National Policy Forum elections

You have until noon on Friday to vote for Naomi and the #Grassroots5

see https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/clpd-guide/ for the best order for your votes

see https://www.clpd.org.uk/2022/05/28/all-candidates-to-support-for-labours-2022-internal-elections/ for your NPF candidates

[pancreas]

Despite having been expelled, I have been very pleased to cast a vote. They haven't the faintest idea who is in the party—and haven't since the data breach.

(In particular, I reckon those membership numbers that were doing the rounds a week or so ago are likely to be rather generous.)