Under The Skin

[Glebe]

That

Spoiler alert

baby

[close]

never gets any easier to watch, by the way.

Yeah, it's an astonishing film but I actually don't know if I could sit through that again. I'm not squeamish, even about extreme gore or anything, but that scene... it's not that I found it objectionable exactly, but I just felt it was too hard to accept emotionally.

Have to say, this looks tasty, though:

http://dvd-music.at/cookdandbombd?DURL=http://www.zavvi.co.uk/blu-ray/under-the-skin-zavvi-exclusive-limited-edition-steelbook-ultra-limited-print-run/10952045.html

[holyzombiejesus]

It's a film which is best described as 'distressing'. The last time I felt such gnawing dread was in the film version of The Road.

I must say I found the erection scenes immensely upsetting. Whether intentional or not it creates some sort of dread or phobia of the phallus. The absolutely gutted out eroticism of these scenes, the almost sound-stage/installation elements combining with pulsating avant-garde music that means the next time you to enter your missus, even weeks later, you start to suspect of some crescendo of blackness, a mortuary horror in liquidation and the hypnotic descent into the nightmare of a closed world - and you howl.

I keep coming back to this thread and I'm still thinking about the film every day, weeks later. It must be one of the best films I've ever seen.

They all suffer some sort of dread or phobia of the phallus followed by a crescendo of blackness, a mortuary horror in liquidation and the hypnotic descent into the nightmare of a closed world by the time I've finished with them.

[Glebe]

Anyone else feel suspect about the round black space in front of the contestants on Pointless after seeing this?

[Nobody Soup]

I'm throwing something out there that's quite meaningless.

the chance of a bloke walking about in a hibs top in the east end of glasgow are slim, he was wearing a celtic one and they asked him to change it for a shirt that looked similar given you only saw the collar.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Yeah I noticed that straight away. It did jar quite considerably. Shame.

But those four seconds didn't affect things too much.

[Olarrio]

MOYES OUT

[Tiny Poster]

It's possible I misunderstood or I'm misremembering - nothing seems certain in this film in retrospect.

Spoiler alert

The guy wanders naked in some fields. A biker guy rides out to intercept him at 1000mph. The biker smashes a car window and pops the boot, then walks out into the fields. He comes back with a body which he stashes in the boot. Presumably the body belongs to the disfigured chap.

[close]

See, I thought the guy had been... 'converted' when he was running across the field, as he seemed to have that alien gait, like a bad model in a computer game. Later in the film there are four riders who set out on the bikes, and I assumed they were beings now clothed in the harvested skin of the victims.

[Van Dammage]

I haven't actually seen the film yet but i saw this on imdb :
"The men lured into the van by Scarlett Johansson's character were not actors. Jonathan Glazer had hidden cameras installed in the van and only informed the men afterwards that they were in a movie"

[Glebe]

I'm just glad Scarlett was

Spoiler alert

watching Tommy Cooper's 'Spoonjarjarspoon!' routine and not this.

[close]

The film is terrifying enough as it is.

[Bored of Canada]

Finally out in Australia. Only in one cinema in Melbourne apparently which is surprising. Would have thought they could have tricked mainstream cinemas into seeing this with Scar Jo. Which would have been perfect, luring men into this.

Honestly. I haven't seen a film this fucking bold in a long time. It'd take me twenty more years of trying to make films before I could have the self belief and self esteem to create anything as unique, brave and confident as that.

It's actually one of those films where I feel reluctant to talk about my interpretation of it, since it feels so personal. But Christ. It's left me in an existential and emotional downspiral.

There is just something so fundamentally wrong with males and their relationship to women. It's just,

I actually don't want to talk about it actually. This film is all I can think about. I'm going to see it again. It's a film like Persona, where you see it, and it's unpleasant and distressing, and you leave trying to figure it out, since it all seems a little bit obtuse.

But when you take into account the context, and everything the film shows you, it becomes really clear. There's a question being asked and there's not a right answer.


There is something fundamentally fucking wrong with men's relationships to women.

And I don't even want to go into it. That's the state this film left me in.

Distressing and fucking ballsy movie.

[momatt]

Took me long enough, but I just saw this last night.  It was in the Southbank's Royal Festival Hall (part of James Lavelle's Meltdown) with the soundtrack being performed live with Mica Levi.  There were long periods were the musicians were just sitting down counting empty bars, but it was still well worth the trip.
http://www.southbankcentre.co.uk/whatson/under-the-skin-83465

It was so bloody intense!  Loved this film so much, really beautifully shot and Scarlett is such a captivating actress.  She makes a surprisingly believable alien.
But it's not really a movie you enjoy as such, but a deeply moving experience for sure.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Interesting review BoC.

As an allegory for desire/abuse/sex, its a bloody complex one.

There is something interesting about how the language of sex and attraction is common currency for her yet she is unable or sees no value in communicating with humans for any other reason. When she goes out into the country there is a survival need for her to talk to those around her but the isolation makes her feel even more withdrawn.

Was it ultimately a misandrist film? I don't think so. It reflected reality and our drives as men. Whether that's something permanently dysfunctional (I dont think it matters whether its the case or not, only how we react to it and behave ourselves) is for you to ponder but I'm certain wasn't what the film was trying to say.

[McFlymo]

Absolutely brilliant film.
Such a unique cinematic experience. The sound and space alone, but it was beautiful to look at too.
So much tension. So fucking bleak.

Spoiler alert

The baby on the shore

[close]

was harsh, but in a way I'm glad the film had the courage to show us just how heartless and cold the alien was.

I think towards the end it began to feel a little slow,

Spoiler alert

but I was genuinely very sad when the alien died, maybe because it seemed she was learning and growing. Plus, I really wanted the rapist guy to get his comeuppance.

[close]

The soundtrack is excellent too. I've been listening to it a fair bit.
My sister has been creeping herself out, playing the soundtrack in her van!

[Glebe]

Spoiler alert

The baby on the shore

[close]

was harsh, but in a way I'm glad the film had the courage to show us just how heartless and cold the alien was.

Yeah, not sure I could watch that again without having some kind of emotional episode. Have to agree, though, it's a fucking great film. I went in after hearing some hype about it, but it didn't disappoint... it had really quite an odd effect one me. Mark Kermode reckons the 'are-they-aren't-they amateur actors?' thing was a distraction, didn't bother me at all. And yeah, the soundtrack is incredible and really enhances the film.

[Junglist]

For those who wish to watch it again, its 'out'. I missed it in the cinema run, by the time I had the funds and time it'd gone. Possibly the most hyped I've been for a film in years, I look forward to grabbing the Blu Ray when it comes out.

Please be good.

[thraxx]

This thread has got me really excited about this film.  It sounds amazing.  I can't wait to see it.

I hope I've not built it up too much to myself.

[Rev]

There is something fundamentally fucking wrong with men's relationships to women.

There is, but do you think the film has an argument about what that is, or even asks a question about what it might be?

That's not supposed to be confrontational, by the way.  I really liked it, and haven't read the novel, but from a synopsis it's clearly a much wilder deviation than even something like The Shining.  That's fine, it's a riff on the source material, and a very beautiful one - but the more I think about it, the more I think it's not sure what it's shooting for other than the surface.

Up until about halfway through there's a solid idea, and I'd kind of assumed that's what was going on:  a cracked lense giving us the thinking behind guys who regularly pick women up for one-night fumbles.  They're predatory bitches anyway, fuck 'em, they know what they're doing, and they're probably been up to loads of evil shit.  The rest of the film diffuses and undermines that as an interpretation, though.  If we're following a concept, then what are we looking at later on?

I think this film's a bit of a magic mirror; there's not a great deal of meaning to it, but bits and pieces will stick with different audiences.  That's not a criticism, but Eraserhead was mentioned earlier I think, and that's a good comparison.

INCIDENTALLY the BBFC concluded that her confusion after the sex scene was because he done a spunk up her (http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/under-skin-2013 - click the insight thing) so this is all official now and should not be discussed any further.

[popcorn]

When she first gets in the van, we see a lot of shots of men on the street, just on the way to somewhere, on the phone, carrying the shopping etc. They're all men, and all 20-40ish. There is an implicit feeling of threat, because they don't know they're being watched (they weren't extras and the people didn't know they were being filmed IRL either), and there's something creepily predatorial about it.

That's what it's like for women, all the time. The reason that sequence is alarming and unnatural is that you never see men portrayed that way. That's what the film is getting at.

The small twist is that the men she seduces believe they deserve her. They think they've seduced HER, because they think they're entitled to any woman they like. It's significant that the person that changes her mind is the guy who can't believe his luck. The guy who has so little confidence with women he thinks it's a wind-up. He doesn't think he deserves her, and she realises that he doesn't deserve death, either. And developing that empathy is her downfall.

She is helped by the man at the bus stop, but equally she is exploited by him. Does he really want to help her, or does he just fancy her like everyone else?

INCIDENTALLY the BBFC concluded that her confusion after the sex scene was because he done a spunk up her (http://www.bbfc.co.uk/releases/under-skin-2013 - click the insight thing) so this is all official now and should not be discussed any further.

Cor, no one brought that idea up.

"There is brief and shadowy sight of erect penises"!

[thraxx]

I saw it last night.  Never seen a film like that before.  I went to sleep with it on my mind and woke up the same way.  A massively affecting film - I haven't a clue what the film is about and it'll be a while before I digest and find meaning it, both as a whole and individual scenes (one that bother me greatly is

Spoiler alert

the scene where she is attacked in the van

[close]

).  My one wish is that I had seen the film without any prior knowledge of what it was about – that would have been mind-blowing.  I am sure going to bore everyone to death around me that they should see it too.  Visually and musically (reminded me of that harrowing score from Alien) stunning, I agree that it does get a little aimless in the final third until the final scene. 

Spoiler alert

The baby scene

[close]

is gut-ripping, it was all I could do not to run into my daughter's bedroom where she was sleeping pick her up and squeeze the life out of her.  The highlights for me were

Spoiler alert

the opening sequence with the eye and the Scarlett's character practicing vocalising human sounds; obviously the seduction scenes with the liquid; the voyeuristic scenes as she drives around town

[close]

.  Sure that Kermode will be in a minority worrying about who is an actor and who is not.  Finally, and from a purely gratuitous point of view, did anyone else feel both 'amazed yet disappointed' that Scarlett's body in the nude scenes was so 'normal'.  Did I understand what the hell it was about?  Not a Scooby.  Did thrill and disturb me?  Yes it did.  It will be a while before I want to watch it again, but I can't wait to do so.

I'm now going to see if I can find a soundtrack somewhere and see if I can freak myself out as I work today.

The biggest question.  What the fuck is a guy in a Hibs top doing in Glasgow?

[Tuesday]

When she first gets in the van, we see a lot of shots of men on the street, just on the way to somewhere, on the phone, carrying the shopping etc. They're all men, and all 20-40ish. There is an implicit feeling of threat, because they don't know they're being watched (they weren't extras and the people didn't know they were being filmed IRL either), and there's something creepily predatorial about it.

That's what it's like for women, all the time. The reason that sequence is alarming and unnatural is that you never see men portrayed that way. That's what the film is getting at.

The small twist is that the men she seduces believe they deserve her. They think they've seduced HER, because they think they're entitled to any woman they like. It's significant that the person that changes her mind is the guy who can't believe his luck. The guy who has so little confidence with women he thinks it's a wind-up. He doesn't think he deserves her, and she realises that he doesn't deserve death, either. And developing that empathy is her downfall.

She is helped by the man at the bus stop, but equally she is exploited by him. Does he really want to help her, or does he just fancy her like everyone else?

This is all perfect. No idea if that's how it was supposed to come across but it's what I saw.

Spoiler alert

Then there's the ending when she's tried to get away and stop killing but it's all ended by some arsehole in the woods. There's a point in there somewhere about how she could subvert it all as a predatory alien but is raped and killed when she tries to be a human woman, but I'm still working it out.

[close]

I thought her relationship with the man at the bus stop was one of the saddest parts. I spoke to my friend about it afterwards and we were

Spoiler alert

both disappointed when he tried to have sex with her. We thought you'd assume someone you found in that state had been through some horrible trauma and wouldn't try your luck. Doesn't make him a villain, but is was deflating when you thought he just wanted to help her.

[close]

I did originally assume the bikers were just going to kill him and I'm glad it was more complex than that.

[popcorn]

I forgot to mention that it's also significant that the disfigured guy is also the one she has to work hardest to seduce. For me the real heartbreaking tragedy of that scene is that she doesn't understand why her routine isn't working. She doesn't see him as any different. He's a man, isn't he? So why is he hesitating? Doesn't he realise it's his right to jump into bed with any woman who talks to him? He's the guy who teaches her that actually men HAVE no right to do that.

This is all perfect. No idea if that's how it was supposed to come across but it's what I saw.

Spoiler alert

Then there's the ending when she's tried to get away and stop killing but it's all ended by some arsehole in the woods. There's a point in there somewhere about how she could subvert it all as a predatory alien but is raped and killed when she tries to be a human woman, but I'm still working it out.

[close]

She has no alien powers to speak of, seemingly. She can only trap the men by leading them into the horrible liquid death dimension. Her only power is her sex appeal, and when she develops empathy, that power is quickly exploited and turned against her. There was nothing she could do in that scene to defend herself.

I thought her relationship with the man at the bus stop was one of the saddest parts. I spoke to my friend about it afterwards and we were

Spoiler alert

both disappointed when he tried to have sex with her. We thought you'd assume someone you found in that state had been through some horrible trauma and wouldn't try your luck. Doesn't make him a villain, but is was deflating when you thought he just wanted to help her.

[close]

It's ambiguous, though. It's possible she initiated sex with him, not the other way round; we don't see it. Her examination of her body in the scene beforehand suggests she might be curious about using her human body for sex for the first time (remember she never actually has sex with anyone before this point). That could still be taken both ways, though: either as a positive interest in human intimacy, or as a tragic "defaulting to type", like, "well, I'm a sex doll, I suppose I should do this then".

e: there are also signs that she feels like she is being led into a trap by the man, though. Think about when they visit the castle. She doesn't want to walk through a puddle. Why would a character like hers be scared of walking into liquid? Why would she be scared of descending the steps into the darkness inside the castle?

[Bored of Canada]

I thought her relationship with the man at the bus stop was one of the saddest parts. I spoke to my friend about it afterwards and we were

Spoiler alert

both disappointed when he tried to have sex with her. We thought you'd assume someone you found in that state had been through some horrible trauma and wouldn't try your luck. Doesn't make him a villain, but is was deflating when you thought he just wanted to help her.

[close]

I did originally assume the bikers were just going to kill him and I'm glad it was more complex than that.

Definitely, but that feels like a very deliberate decision. Trying to highlight these fundamental problems of men's treatment and relationship to women. There's always that element of entitlement in society, where you can't just treat people like human beings, it has to be all in pursuit of sex that men just assume they are owed at some point.


Popcorn. You've verbalised a lot of the things I thought about the film but didn't really feel like getting into, and verbalised them far better then I ever could.
Definitely agree.

[Tuesday]

She has no alien powers to speak of, seemingly. She can only trap the men by leading them into the horrible liquid death dimension. Her only power is her sex appeal, and when she develops empathy, that power is quickly exploited and turned against her. There was nothing she could do in that scene to defend herself.

Exactly, if she had encountered him before he would have been another one for the goo. After she had broken away from that she was as vulnerable as anyone.

It's ambiguous, though. It's possible she initiated sex with him, not the other way round; we don't see it. Her examination of her body in the scene beforehand suggests she might be curious about using her human body for sex for the first time (remember she never actually has sex with anyone before this point). That could still be taken both ways, though: either as a positive interest in human intimacy, or as a tragic "defaulting to type", like, "well, I'm a sex doll, I suppose I should do this then".

e: there are also signs that she feels like she is being led into a trap by the man, though. Think about when they visit the castle. She doesn't want to walk through a puddle. Why would a character like hers be scared of walking into liquid? Why would she be scared of descending the steps into the darkness inside the castle?

It could be that she had that positive interest, but she is so bewildered (and silent) in the scenes we see I found it sad that he would go ahead with it. I didn't pick up on parallel between her trap and the puddle/castle!

Definitely, but that feels like a very deliberate decision. Trying to highlight these fundamental problems of men's treatment and relationship to women. There's always that element of entitlement in society, where you can't just treat people like human beings, it has to be all in pursuit of sex that men just assume they are owed at some point.

It does feel deliberate, and I hope it is because it ties in with everything popcorn covered. It's such a draining moment.


I feel the need to note this was all partially ruined by the two men behind us in the cinema who laughed whenever they saw a cock.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Well, some of it was laugh out loud funny. Especially the second seduction, there was something naturally comic about the cutaway from the seduction to the room of doom. It was a straight cut, the shot and the music were repeated identically, and the guy had a swagger and a grin of absolute confidence, which was hilarious now being furnished with the knowledge of what was going to happen to him. However this was then turned to absolute horror when we see the bodies being shattered and subsumed. Really great film making. The 'processing' sequence when we see glimpses and angles of various substances draining, transforming in an abstract manner, combined with the accompanying drones and industrial noises was horrific, and beautifully teasing in how much it revealed.

Of course if they said "haha look at his cock" then that does temper my comments somewhat.

[Tuesday]

Well, some of it was laugh out loud funny. Especially the second seduction, there was something naturally comic about the cutaway from the seduction to the room of doom. It was a straight cut, the shot and the music were repeated identically, which is more or less a stock comic technique.

Of course if they said "haha look at his cock" then that does temper my comments somewhat.

Nah it was "haha cock." I think everyone laughed at the bloke still dancing his way towards her. They just giggled madly whenever anyone was naked.

One of them also said "this is the best bit!" out loud during Scarlett's scene in front of the mirror. Which may have been the case for him, but shut up.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

One of them also said "this is the best bit!" out loud during Scarlett's scene in front of the mirror.

What a figurative and actual wanker.

[thraxx]

Been listening to the excellent soundtrack all day - it's a masterpiece.  Very cleansing. 

Can anyone recommend any other records that are similar in style and atmosphere?

Wank you very much in advance.

[popcorn]

Try Jonny Greenwood's soundtracks for Bodysong or There Will Be Blood, or the album Third by Portishead.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I'm not wholly convinced by the feminist interpretation of the film in the previous posts. I think it does touch on those themes but in terms of whether it's trying to make any explicit points, I think that's reading too much into it. 

[popcorn]

In the film Under the Skin, an alien takes the form of a young woman and drives around in a white van, picking up men on the street. She lies to them and allows them to think they are seducing her, but in fact it is the other way round. As they follow her into darkness with their grins and cocks, they killed and are turned into meat.

Spoiler alert

When she decides to stop doing this, a man tries to rape her, then burns her to death.

[close]

This is a film about sex, power, and rape. It is extremely critical of how men believe they are entitled to sex. These are feminist concerns.