Doctor Who Series 13 continued: RTD2, Chib nil

[Mister Six]

Kicking off a new thread with this thrilling revelation:

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Doctor Who's 'Thasmin' romance wasn't originally planned, says producer

A recently confirmed romantic connection between the Thirteenth Doctor (Jodie Whittaker) and her companion Yaz (Mandip Gill) was not originally planned, it has been reported.

Following years of speculation, the latest Doctor Who New Year special Eve of the Daleks finally saw Yaz admit the true nature of her feelings for the Doctor, but fans were somewhat divided on the execution of this subplot.

Some argued that Yaz gay awakening wasn't too little too late, while others felt that not enough groundwork had been laid toward this development, with the consequence being that it didn't feel completely authentic.

According to a fan in attendance at Doctor Who convention Gallifrey One, which is held annually in Los Angeles, executive producer Matt Strevens shed light on why the twist might have felt sudden, revealing it was not part of the original plan for Whittaker's era.

"I didn't know what Thasmin was," he reportedly said. "Jodie said after the first season, 'oh there's speculation out there', but we hadn't really thought about it."

The attending fan reported that Strevens said that he "forgot about" the Thasmin craze after initially learning about it in the run-up to series 12, but helped incorporate it into the canon story during series 13's COVID-induced restructure.

"[Thasmin] was something that [Chris Chibnall] wanted to bring in and sort of play with it," he added. "Yaz is not sure about what these feelings she's having are... yeah, there's more to come."
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That actually surprises me a bit, because there was a bit of a hint in Arachnids that Yaz was into women, but it makes sense given how cobbled together and lazy the writing on the show is these days. The one bit of character development Yaz has had in three seasons, and it's only because of desperate shippers online.

[Mister Six]

Will @Ambient Sheep be along to do the usual checklist post, or should I do that? I'm not up to date on protocol these days.

[Ambient Sheep]

Sheepy's guide to Doctor Who threads

New/changed entries marked with an asterisk; there's a few new ones here, partly because the site seems to be more search-engine-friendly now than it was a while back.

Main threads about the new series, in chronological order of creation:
2004/03/04 - 2004/03/20:  Izzard as Dr Who ? (Rampant speculation)
2004/03/20 - 2005/02/21:  And the new Doctor Who is... (Eccleston's announcement to the start of Series 1 (27))
2005/02/27 - 2006/10/10:  New Doctor Who (Series 1 (27) & 2 (28))
2006/11/01 - 2007/05/21:  Newer Doctor Who  (Series 3 (29) part 1)
2007/05/24 - 2009/10/21:  The New Doctor Who thread (Series 3 (29) part 2, Series 4 (30), 2009 up to but not including The Waters Of Mars)
2009/10/21 - 2010/03/26:  The "New" Doctor Who Thread (2009 just before The Waters of Mars to just before Series 5 (31/Fnarg) aired)
2010/03/18 - 2010/07/27:  Doctor Who - Series 5 Discussion (No Spoilers) (Series 5 (31/Fnarg))
2010/06/13 - 2011/01/15:  So, Doctor Who. (started as Fry's questions thread, mutated halfway down page 12 into general post-Series-5-(31/Fnarg) discussion, including the 2010 Christmas special (A Christmas Carol))
2011/01/20 - 2012/01/05:  Doctor Who Series 6 (Series 6 (32))
2012/01/07 - 2012/12/29:  Doctor Who Series 7 and beyond (may contain spoilers) (S07(33)E01 (Asylum of the Daleks) - S07(33)E05 (The Angels Take Manhattan) plus Christmas Special (The Snowmen))
2012/12/29 - 2013/07/11:  Doctor Who, Series 7 (part two) (S07(33)E06 (The Bells of Saint John) - S07(33)E13 (The Name of the Doctor))
2013/01/07 - 2014/01/05:  Doctor Who - 50th anniversary year (overlaps with the previous thread)
2013/12/26 - 2014/08/11:  Doctor Who - Series 8 (101 pages before Series 8 (34) had even aired!)
2014/08/09 - 2014/10/21:  Doctor Who - Series 8 (Part 2) (S08(34)E01 (Deep Breath) - S08(34)E09 (Flatline))
2014/10/21 - 2015/01/14:  Doctor Who - Series 8 (Part 3) (S08(34)E09 (Flatline) - S08(34)E12 (Death in Heaven) plus Christmas Special (Last Christmas))
2015/01/05 - 2015/10/27:  Doctor Who - Series 9 (S09(35) speculation and E01 (The Magician's Apprentice) - E06 (The Woman Who Lived))
2015/10/26 - 2016/01/21:  Doctor Who - Series 9 (continued) (S09(35)E07 (The Zygon Invasion) - S09(35)E12 (Hell Bent) plus Christmas Special (The Husbands of River Song))
2016/01/22 - 2017/04/15:  Doctor Who - Series 10 (Pre-S10(36) speculation)
2017/04/15 - 2017/08/07:  Doctor Who - Series 10 (Part 2) (S10(36)E01 (The Pilot) - S10(36)E12 (The Doctor Falls))
2017/08/07 - 2018/01/07:  Doctor Who - Series 10 (Part 3) (Christmas Special (Twice Upon a Time) and general chatter about the impending Chibnall era)
2018/01/07 - 2018/11/02:  Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 1) (62 pages of pre-S11(37) speculation, then S11(37)E01 (The Woman Who Fell to Earth) to S11(37)E04 (Arachnids in the UK))
2018/11/02 - 2019/06/13:  Doctor Who - Series 11 (Part 2) (S11(37)E05 (The Tsuranga Conundrum) to S11(37)E10 (The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos) plus New Year's Day Special (Resolution), then whatever the thread equivalent of "The entire thousand-mile-long bridge spontaneously folded up its glittering spans and sank weeping into the mire, taking everybody with it." would be)
2019/06/13 - 2020/03/03: Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge (24 pages of Pre-S12(38) speculation, then Ballad's review of S12(38)E01 (Spyfall, Part 1), then two-and-a-half pages later, everyone else's, then all of Series 12 up to and including S12(38)E10 (The Timeless Children).
2020/03/03 - 2021/08/10: Doctor Who Series 12B: The Timeless Chibnall (Xmas special & pre-Series 13(39) chat) (What it says on the tin)
* 2021/08/10 - 2022/02/20: Doctor Who Series 13: Goodbye, Mr. Chibs (More pre-Series 13(39) chat, then Series 13(39)/Flux itself starts here with The Halloween Apocalypse, ending here with The Vanquishers, with the New Year's Day special (Eve of the Daleks) here)
* 2022/02/20 - 202?/??/??: Doctor Who Series 13 continued: RTD2, Chib nil (Coverage of Chibnall's final but futile efforts to kill the show continues, will presumably cover at least one, if not both of his remaining specials -- you're reading it now!)

plus:

2021/05/03 - 202?/??/??: Doctor Who 2005-2017 : The RTD & Moffat Years (a.k.a. Old New Doctor Who - a thread for chat about old episodes from the re-booted series)

and:

* 2021/09/24 - 202?/??/??: RTD back for Doctor Who (Announcing and discussing the incredible news that Russell T. Davies will be coming back to run the show after Chibnall buggers off)


Threads about the old series, in chronological order of creation:
Old Doctor Who (Original thread, 2005/05/11 - 2010/06/08)
Old Doctor Who (Second thread, 2011/01/14 - 2016/10/21)
Old Doctor Who - Part 3 (Third thread, 2016/10/21 - 2020/06/04)
Old Doctor Who - Part 4 (Fourth thread, 2020/06/04 - 20??/??/??)


Threads about both, but for your ears only:
Doctor Who Audio Adventures (Big Finish etc.)


Other Doctor Who related broadcast threads, also in chronological order:
Torchwood Series 1
The Sarah Jane Adventures (just the pilot, not Series 1, there was no S1 thread)
Torchwood Series 2
Sarah Jane adventures- Series 2
Torchwood Series 3 (aka Children of Earth)
Sarah Jane Adventures Series 3
Doctor Who and the SPOILERS OF DEATH (aborted Series 5 (31/Fnarg) thread)
Junior Masterchef with Doctor Who
Doctor Who: The Adventure Games
Torchwood: The New World (one-page thread presaging Series 4 / Miracle Day)
Torchwood return date.... (three-post thread announcing Series 4 / Miracle Day)
Torchwood: Miracle Day (aka Series 4)
Torchwood: Miracle Day (US airings)
Class (Doctor Who spin-off) series 1

There wasn't a Sarah Jane Adventures Series 4 thread, let alone a Series 5 one. :-(


The Doctor Who Radio Times Project - with thanks to Replies From View
A Radio Times History of Doctor Who: 01 William Hartnell


Still more Doctor Who related threads, again in chronological order:
Fanzines (Comedy, Doctor Who and in general)
The Best And Worst Of Doctor Who... Ever
Doctor Who - where does everyone stand now ?
Mong Doctor Who series 5 (H.S. Art thread)
Recommend me some Old Doctor Who (a really good thread, IMHO)
Doctor Who Mongs (H.S. Art thread)
Beeb to show unseen interview with Dr Who theme creator (Delia Derbyshire)
Doctor Who film (November 2011 thread about film rumour)
Watching Doctor Who no 1. The Time Meddler (1965)
Why i don't like modern Doctor Who
Doctor Who leaked scripts thread (but still no spoilers) (July 2014)
Doctor Who: The Movie (April 2015 thread about another film rumour)
K9: Timequake (new movie coming 2017, allegedly... very allegedly, by now)
Doctor Who World (should it become an expanded franchise like Marvel?)
* Doctor Who to spurt cum right up The Queen's vagina (Actually a short thread about the first series of The Crown, but with a title like that it has to make this list)
Dr Who Re Dooooo (would it be worth refilming some early stories?)
Doctor Who or Chips? (addressing the burning issue of the day)
Tom Baker is still alive (General Tom Baker appreciation thread)
Lost WHO script. (Spoon of Ploff writes a Doctor Who story in H.S. Art)
* BRADLEY WALSH will be Doctor Who's companion (Two-and-a-half pages of mild jaw-droppage from 2017/08/21-24, however this comment fails to be "very sarky")
Radiophonic Prom (featuring the music of Delia Derbyshire, among others)
Watching Doctor Who (2005) from the middle of the beginning (madhair60 sparks discussion about the RTD era -- includes a superb Sheepy-has-to-up-his-game-now list by Talulah, really! to every individual episode discussion of the first three series; many thanks for that!)
* Doctor: 'Who?' (Short but enjoyably silly H.S. Art thread)
Clive Swift has died (and much of the thread is about that DWM interview)
giant blue penis bloke from doctor who (the Moxx of Balhoon gets his own thread, then lives it up with Balok and friends)
Wanting to get into old Doctor Who (madhair60 enquires again; lots of good answers)
* The big stupid Doctor Who companion face-mashing project (Mister Six uses face-mashing website Artbreeder in a fascinating quest to figure out what the "average" Doctor Who companion looks like)
* I hear you're a pest now, Noel Clarke? (...and John Barrowman)
* Flying wheelie bin compared to Tardis. (I can see the resemblance)


^{_{(See here for sources.  Further additions & corrections welcome.)}}

[BritishHobo]

Is it odd that we don't have an air-date yet for the next special, given it's supposed to be 'early 2022'? I don't know how television works. Did we know at this point that Planet of the Dead would be on at Easter?

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

The next special is definitely on at Easter. Sunday April 17th, presumably. The exact transmission date will be announced a couple of weeks beforehand, that's the standard practice.

This post comes to you courtesy of someone who spends far too much time dealing with transmission dates.

[Replies From View]

It's probably quite weird how few Classic Who threads we've had in all this time.  But I suppose it's a matter of respect that we've always kept our epic discussions of companion flatulence and Terminator anuses out of them.

[JamesTC]

Chibnall Who is just so much richer and has more depth to discuss.

[Replies From View]

The next special is definitely on at Easter. Sunday April 17th, presumably. The exact transmission date will be announced a couple of weeks beforehand, that's the standard practice.

This post comes to you courtesy of someone who spends far too much time dealing with transmission dates.

DEAL WITH THESE WOULD YOU PLEASE

THERE'S A GOOD CHAP

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Fucking Who deserves better queer rep than this afterthought for fuck sake.

[Mister Six]

Hopefully RTD will improve things, since Moffat already set a precedent for full-time lesbian (Bill) and bi (Clara) companions. I wonder if he'd introduce a trans companion, after his speech at the awards last year? Although I get the feeling he'll lean a bit more conservative to get the 2000s audiences back at first, whether or not the rumours about Tennant and Tate returning are true.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Hopefully RTD will improve things, since Moffat already set a precedent for full-time lesbian (Bill) and bi (Clara) companions. I wonder if he'd introduce a trans companion, after his speech at the awards last year? Although I get the feeling he'll lean a bit more conservative to get the 2000s audiences back at first, whether or not the rumours about Tennant and Tate returning are true.

Moffat did a lot right with Bill, but when I think of it Clara was full on queerbaiting, her only queer experiences being throwaway remarks or double entendres (I still like Clara though).


Not entirely related, but sort of on the subject of queerbaiting, remember this bit in The Doctor dances

Rose: What? Are you telling me you do dance?

Doctor: 900 years old, me. I've been around a bit. I think you can assume at some point I've danced.

Rose: You?

Doctor: Problem?

Rose: Doesn't the universe implode or something if you dance?

Doctor: Well, I've got the moves but I wouldn't want to boast

Implication? Bi? Or just a vanilla ol' shagger

[Mister Six]

Moffat did a lot right with Bill, but when I think of it Clara was full on queerbaiting, her only queer experiences being throwaway remarks or double entendres (I still like Clara though).

Oh, I absolutely agree, I just mean that the door is open wider now than it was in 2010, when Jack was the only LGBT+ regular, and he was (a) barely in Who really (b) a clichéd "I'll fuck anything that moves" pansexual, and (c) not really given much depth outside of his opening Moffat-penned two-parter (and Torchwood, but I'm focusing on Who).

I don't pick up any bi implications in The Doctor Dances, bit, especially given that The Doctor and Jack are both tussling over the affections of a woman, but I guess a species that can change their gender if they take a bad tumble down the stairs would probably be hardwired to have open interests.

Although I prefer my Doctor to be asexual, or whatever the thing is where you're only sexually attracted if you have a romantic connection first, TBH.  And the latter's only because Capaldi and Kingston had such wonderful chemistry.

[Replies From View]

I think it's really crucial for sexuality to be crowbarred in at all costs, especially if asexuality can be routinely stigmatised as well for the sake of a few cheap laughs.

[Deanjam]

Not interested unless the Doctor fucks the TARDIS.

[JamesTC]

Not interested unless the Doctor fucks the TARDIS.

You are Neil Gaiman and I claim my five pounds.

[Mister Six]

I think it's really crucial for sexuality to be crowbarred in at all costs

Why would it be crowbarred in? Every human being has some form of sexuality (counting asexuality). It's an inherent part of all people and informs their behaviour on a daily basis.

[Replies From View]

Why would it be crowbarred in? Every human being has some form of sexuality (counting asexuality). It's an inherent part of all people and informs their behaviour on a daily basis.

When you're not driven by sexuality it's just a social convention that makes you anxious to experience being on the outside of it.

It's shoehorned in because it doesn't need to be there, but it seems to be popular so it's jammed.  It makes more narrative and character-based sense for the Doctor to be aloof from all but platonic love, since he/she is absolutely ancient compared to any individual human life.

[Replies From View]

Also it's shoehorned in because it's completely irrelevant to any story whether the Doctor can manage to get to the end without being fancied or fancying someone.  It's a creative abyss that no showrunner over the age of 15 should be fixating on.

[Mister Six]

When you're not driven by sexuality it's just a social convention that makes you anxious to experience being on the outside of it.

It's shoehorned in because it doesn't need to be there, but it seems to be popular so it's jammed.  It makes more narrative and character-based sense for the Doctor to be aloof from all but platonic love, since he/she is absolutely ancient compared to any individual human life.

If you're objecting to The Doctor being sexual, then I agree. If you're talking about companions, though, then I disagree entirely that it would be "crowbarred in" for them to have at least some sense of sexual interest (not necessarily in The Doctor; that's played out now, and I'm tired of it).

[Replies From View]

Well that's the crux of my issue with the Theremin fixation, yeah.

But even if you want to look at only the companions, who they fancy simply doesn't need to be constantly raised like it's a matter of utmost importance.  It's just entertaining a social norm, and a very limited perspective on the world to not look beyond it.

If you can't grasp what I'm saying then try to imagine also seeing companions eating all day and routinely excusing themselves from adventures for pissing and shitting breaks.  BUT PEOPLE DO THESE THINGS.  Alright, but can we maybe try to think about even deeper aspects of human nature?

[olliebean]

Can I just say, I'd be entirely on board for the Doctor having a romantic relationship with a theremin. Just as long as there's no physical contact involved.

[Replies From View]

Can I just say, I'd be entirely on board for the Doctor having a romantic relationship with a theremin. Just as long as there's no physical contact involved.

Only if it is a very old theremin.

[Jerzy Bondov]

I want Romana to come back and I want her to sit on the Doctor's face.

[Midas]

It makes more narrative and character-based sense for the Doctor to be aloof from all but platonic love, since he/she is absolutely ancient compared to any individual human life.

lots of planets have a nonce!

[Mister Six]

If you can't grasp what I'm saying then try to imagine also seeing companions eating all day and routinely excusing themselves from adventures for pissing and shitting breaks.  BUT PEOPLE DO THESE THINGS.

The need to eat and shit doesn't tend to affect the way that humans interact with people, though, whereas sexuality does influence that, even if it's something as small as subconscious responses to someone the person find attractive.

I agree that these things don't have to be front and centre, with dedicated subplots and the like (despite JC's limitations, S8-9 Clara has plenty going on outside of the flirtiness and quips about copping off with Jane Austen), and I'm not looking forward to more "I fancy The Doctor but they don't fancy me" bollocks, but I don't think having the characters have some kind of sexuality is necessarily a sign of crowbarring.

Then again, RTD is a ridiculously horny writer, so who knows?

[Replies From View]

Mate have you ever tried to do anything immersive when you are bursting for a shit?  Let me tell you, in case you're one of those millionaire lifestyle people who's never more than eight seconds away from a toilet:  it absolutely defines you until you've taken the time you need to sort it out.

For me, and perhaps others who would be more vocal if asexuality wasn't shamed as a sad and sorry state, bursting for a shit is far more pivotal than any kind of sexual attraction gubbins, and being endlessly reminded of sexual attraction gubbins is both irritating and needlessly anxiety-making.

At least try an episode where it's wall to wall TURDIS jokes, and if it works well do it for a minimum of 14 series.

[Mister Six]

You should do what I do and just stay in your home most of the time. It's great. Massive shits whenever you want.

[Replies From View]

You should do what I do and just stay in your home most of the time. It's great. Massive shits whenever you want.

[M-CORP]

Can I just say the poll is bollocks. 'Absolutely, yes' just splits the 'yes vote', which, under our current first-past-the-post system, runs the risk of 'An tSoi' winning power.

You should do what I do and just stay in your home most of the time. It's great. Massive shits whenever you want.

This is a good point and is worth considering.

[Replies From View]

You as well??