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Started by pancreas, March 16, 2022, 08:54:56 AM
Quote from: BlodwynPig on August 06, 2022, 10:36:46 AMThe conditions for tyrants to emerge do not happen in isolation. Onward Christian Soldiers...
Quote from: shoulders on August 06, 2022, 12:44:41 PMThere isn't a totally correct side, no. If a military option was to be deployed then the best strategy would have been to present a wall of resistance among many nations that shocked Putin into abandoning....
Quote from: Mrs Wogans lemon drizzle on August 06, 2022, 02:05:26 PMHow would this of actually worked in practice though? Care to elaborate?
Quote from: pancreas on March 16, 2022, 08:54:56 AMNew thread.Yes, it's actually now VIII threads, if I've counted correctly.
Quote from: Buelligan on August 06, 2022, 04:55:14 PMI mean LOOK AT IT!
Quote from: Buelligan on August 06, 2022, 06:46:25 PMHeheh. I saw and what's worse, it looks like he's put them on specially. Like in the car, he thought, need trainers because I'm talking to ordinary types.
Quote from: shoulders on August 06, 2022, 12:44:41 PMThere isn't a totally correct side, no. If a military option was to be deployed then the best strategy would have been to present a wall of resistance among many nations that shocked Putin into abandoning the invasion, and he could have come up with some bullshit to save face. As it is, he has found it slightly harder than he expected but not enough to actually stop. All that arming and funding Ukraine since then has achieved is a slow grinding campaign destroying its infrastructure and the agriculture Europe depends on, the denial of gas supply wrecking the economy, the displacement of 10 million people. All needless. Yes, Putin bears a grave, overwhelming responsibility for that, but hard choices are coming up. If you are honestly telling me that further devastation is preferable to a diplomatic one, even a bitter settlement, I have to disagree. You ask what stops Putin from doing this again, but what are you actually proposing? We aren't invading Russia and Putin is going nowhere. Come to terms with the fact this isn't toppling some tinpot dictator and any such attempt means World War 3. Is that what we're going to put the world through, is that proportionate? Get around the negotiating table now and stop this before it goes any further. Put everything possible in place to disincentivise any further aggression.
Quote from: shoulders on Yesterday at 07:10:04 AMWell then can you describe how the conflict realistically ends in a way that saves Ukraine from devastation and greater political control by Russia. If you can't do that you aren't in position to demand the conflict continues nor criticise others for proposing alternatives to destroying a country's economy, agriculture, infrastructure and displacing its people. 'We can't just let Russia get away with it'. We haven't, have we? But in reality a large powerful country with a nuclear arsenal weren't going to be put off by Ukraine's military plus sporadic Western money and arms. They'd have been put off if all neighboring countries acted like Ukraine were already NATO members at the outset. That is how power works and that is how Putin works. There were a series of acceptable outcomes for Russia here shy of total control of the nation and people need to accept that this isn't a superhero film and that Russia are going to get one form of those or another. Not accepting that only prolongs the pain and suffering of the people we profess to care about.
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