The big CaB Doctor Who (2005) rewatch thread - starts May 30, 2022

[daf]

Wasn't happy with my first version, so I've done two new rating systems - one for the Ninth and one for the Tenth. Some like Rose or Captain Jack crossover, so you could still use those for Tennant if you fancy. Anyway, without further ado, I present . . .

The NINTH DOCTOR ratings :

1/10

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2/10

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3/10

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4/10

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5/10

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6/10

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7/10

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8/10

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9/10

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10/10

[daf]

The TENTH DOCTOR ratings :

1/10

- - - - - -
2/10

- - - - - -
3/10

- - - - - -
4/10

- - - - - -
5/10

- - - - - -
6/10

- - - - - -
7/10

- - - - - -
8/10

- - - - - -
9/10

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10/10

[Attila]

I like the ratings system :D

As someone mentioned above, the lone Absorabloz keeps making me laugh.

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

Absorbalone

[GoblinAhFuckScary]

[jamiefairlie]

Absorbalone

The Tango fella's let himself go......greyish

[Mister Six]

Discussion for S01E01, "Rose", now open!

I'd planned to open proceedings (hey, it's technically morning in the UK, right?) with a review of my own, but that didn't work out, so here are some topics for discussion/consideration - but feel free to just do your own thing, cool kids...

• What do you remember of the first time you saw the episode Rose? Was it when it first aired? What did you think of it at the time?
• How does it seem now? Have subsequent Who episodes shaped your opinions?
• Was there anything about the episode that surprised you - good or bad?
• How well do you think it works as an introduction to the series? Would you recommend people start here?
• Are there elements earlier or later Who episodes/seasons that you would like to have seen here?
• Which elements aged best? Which aged like George Best?

Discussion on S01E02, "The End of the World", begins in a week, on Monday June 6. And if you want to use the fantastic score images daf made, they're at the top of this page.

[Mister Six]

Discussion for S01E01, "Rose", now open!

I'd planned to open proceedings (hey, it's technically morning in the UK, right?) with a review of my own, but that didn't work out, so here are some topics for discussion/consideration - but feel free to ignore...

• What do you remember of the first time you saw the episode Rose? Was it on airing? What did you think of it at the time?
• How does it seem now? Have subsequent Who episodes changed your outlook on it?
• Was there anything about the episode that surprised you - good or bad?
• How well do you think it works as an introduction to the series? Would you recommend people start here?
• Are there elements in earlier or later Who episodes/seasons that you would like to have seen here?
• Which parts aged best? Which aged like George Best?

Discussion on S01E02, "The End of the World", begins in a week, on Monday June 6. And if you want to use the fantastic score images daf made, they're at the top of this page.

[daf]

1 | "Rose"



The Dummy Returns

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Highlights
• The Mysterious Wilson
• Curious Catflap Conundrum
• Dressing Gown Jackie's Foiled Flirtation
• The Mostly Armless Throat Throttling Sketch
• The Living Plastic Creations of Dr. Rhenborg
• Conspiracy Clive's Blue Shed
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Other Bits :
• Dodgy Doc's Faked Photos
• The Burping Bin Sketch
• Fantastic #1 : Wheel Reveal
• Shunt Off!
• Showroom Smashers
• Tarzan To The Rosecue
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

5/10

[Alberon]

I first saw the episode when it leaked from the Canadian broadcaster, IIRC. My computer was in my bedroom back then and noisy as fuck so I couldn't sleep as I was downloading it. I think the only difference from the broadcast episode was the title music which was using the 70s version as a placeholder. I do remember thinking after watching it that that Doctor Who was back as, though updated, it felt like the real thing.

So you have the opening sequence and clearly a lot of effort has gone into it. This section HAD to grip the audience as it would have been easy for casual viewers to drift away if it was naff. We follow Rose through a boring day at work and at the end of her shift ends up in the basement. Billie Piper really sells this well and the auton reveal leading up to the Doctor's introduction is great. Then you get the running away from monsters that can barely shamble and you know you're watching Doctor Who.

The first problem for me is the music, especially when Eccleston is pulling the arm off an auton. If I remember it does settle down in time, but it's quite intrusive here. The music is one area that Chibnall's Who did improve on.

Also, I'd forgotten how Rose's job was represented as Piper just literally standing around on the shop floor almost like a mannequin herself.

Moving on you get the Doctor involved in a domestic scene which was something very unusual for the show at that point. Eccleston does a couple of Doctorish things, reading a book in a second and a magazine before commenting on his ears as if they were new, raising a thousand internet questions about how recently he regenerated, and then into one of the, for me, over the top comedy bits where he's attacked by the arm.

After, The Doctor saunters off and then delivers one of the set piece speeches to Rose which really lands. God, I've missed writing like that.

Then Rose goes to Mickey's to search the internet and discover's Clive's website. Looking at the bulky CRT monitor, the old internet and the cars really brings home this was made in the past. When I last watched this episode it was still the 'present'. That's always weird when that happens.

While Clive is explaining the Doctor's appearence through history (including an appearance near Kennedy's assassination the day before the first episode aired) Mickey gets eaten by a bin.

This was very divisive when it aired. I hated it then and hate it now. The CGI is poor (and was seventeen years ago to be honest), but I'm not one to attack Doctor Who special effects unless they're Myrka level bad. It's the burp I really hate. There is for me a problem with the comedy elements of the episodes of the first block of filming (which was Rose and the Slitheen two parter IIRC). The show is still finding its feet and these don't work for me. I think even if I was a kid I wouldn't have liked it.

And also, lets talk about Mickey. Yes, he grows as a character as time goes on, but he bloody well had to. Here he's barely two-dimensional. Plastic Mickey gives Noel Clarke a chance to show some better acting, but it's not long before the Doctor has pulled his head off (I love the bit where the male customer screams after the head starts talking).

The TARDIS introduction scene is another that's been clearly worked hard on. It works at introducing the new viewers to the concept and old viewers to the new interior. It's interesting how the interior has evolved. There in series one it's clearly intended to be very ramshackle and patched together, something that's fallen away as the show has gone on.

Then it's on to the big budget finale. The Nestene Conciousness burps the words Time Lord, but some people reckon it also says Bad Wolf. I dunno.

Rose saves the day though I thought her lines before swinging on the chain don't work for me. RTD gets to recreate one of the iconic moments of Doctor Who and makes sure this time the autons are seen breaking shop glass windows.

With one last insult directed at her boyfriend which everyone on the show seems to think he deserves (what has he done wrong exactly?), Rose pisses off with the Doctor. She's written as very self-obsessed, most notably of course during dinner with her plastic boyfriend.

The episode seems slower than later on and feels more like a bridge between the old series and the new than it did at the time. I do prefer the restraint with which the sonic screwdriver is used. Eccleston doesn't have it out waving like a wand every fucking scene. Eccleston seems to slip into the role of the Doctor quite well and while he can, of course, handle the dramatic stuff he's great at the more gormless and silly side of the time lord.

Billie Piper was a revelation. I remember when she was cast and being quite downcast about it, but she works very well. The show is still finding its feet and the tone veers into parody a bit too often, but it's off to a solid start. The monsters aren't much, but they're not meant to be, this episode is about introducing the concepts of the show to Rose and new viewers.

7/10

[Thomas]

I haven't rewatched the episode, but I did go back - as I often do - to that scene where Eccleston intones about 'the turn of the Earth'. Perfection. Capaldi has said that this particular scene convinced him that the returned series was in good hands. Here, incidentally, is his retrospective - feel free to pretend he's taking part in the thread:

I love Clive. Fantastic idea (and sympathetically portrayed by Mark Benton). He almost represents a wilderness fan, gathering as much as information as possible on the classic series (before being mercifully gunned down by the New). I was 12 when Rose aired, and in the weeks beforehand I did hours of homework until I could name all the Doctors in order and tell you everything about Skaro. Hadn't even seen a minute of the show.

Using the Autons was a clever stroke. Fired our imaginations as mum dragged us around shopping centres in the weeks after.

[BritishHobo]

The first time I watched it, around 2007, I (probably motivated by the obnoxious teenage desire to scoff at something popular) thought it was embarassing and really CBBC. Farting bins with shit CGI, loads of wackiness. Watching it now, I think it's really charming, even the bin. As an introduction, RTD really nails the clash between ordinary life and this strange new figure we're all being introduced to. As mentioned, Eccleston is perfect - that speech, and also the little glimpses of his Time War guilt coming through in the climax. Love that that's left unexplained for now. It's episode 1; you don't need to know all of that yet. Lovely thrills in the shop dummies and the realisation that the secret base is under the London Eye

Oddly the thing that worked most for me here was the rejection of Mickey. I think RTD does more than I've recognised before. On top of being an annoying bell-end in the opening montage, his response to Rose nearly dying at work is to try and drag her to the pub so he can watch football, and he's a bit macho and patronising over Clive. And there's the matter of whatever dirty secret is lurking in his e-mail inbox. The cowering in the climax is a bit too Scooby-Doo, but otherwise I found it scans quite well - Mickey and Jackie both not really giving a shit about Rose beyond her basic role in their lives as someone they can just speak over.

[daf]

I've kept a diary since 1984 (when I was 13-14) - and I've just dug the one from 2005 out to see what I had to say (if anything) about the new series -

26 March 2005
[stuff about work] ". . . in the middle of this watched the first episode of the new Doctor Who - pretty good. It's more like Crime Traveller than the old Doctor Who which is fine in my opinion."

I loved Crime Traveller - so this is high praise!



I don't mention it again till "The Empty Child":

21 May 2005
"Recorded Doctor Who"

Move over Samuel Pepys!!

The next time it shows up is for "Bad Wolf" - which, by the looks of it, I missed :

11 June 2005
" . . got a tremendous headache + had to have a lie down . . . missing Doctor Who unfortunately - first one I've missed from the series. BAH!"

Interestingly - I thought I had stopped watching about half way through the first series (due to the excessive burping and farting) - but that's clearly not the case - the memory cheats!

There's nothing the following week, or for any of series 2, 3, 4, specials or 5!

The next mention I could find was for "Day of the Moon" :

31 April 2011
"OK Doctor Who Time"

So I missed all of Tennant 'live', but caught up with most of his episodes later - via BBC3 - after Smith hooked me back in.

[Mister Six]

There is for me a problem with the comedy elements of the episodes of the first block of filming (which was Rose and the Slitheen two parter IIRC). The show is still finding its feet and these don't work for me. I think even if I was a kid I wouldn't have liked it.

I'm going to defend Boak a bit here and say that given the burping bins, farting aliens and general pratfalls, I can't blame him for going a bit more cartoony and daft than he ought to, even if (per below) it harmed the characterisation of some of the characters. The overall tone of the series is something that should have been discussed with RTD and everyone else before shooting began. Maybe it was, and Boak fucked up, I dunno, but some of the other, more serious scenes work well.

With one last insult directed at her boyfriend which everyone on the show seems to think he deserves (what has he done wrong exactly?)

He feigns concern about Rose almost being caught in a bombing as a pretext to get them down to the pub to watch a football game, and is generally just a bit childish and daft. Also, the implication (I think) that he's been chatting up other girls by email.

I think the direction makes him seem more cowardly and pathetic than it should, which in turn makes it seem like Rose is punching down a bit. If he'd been played straighter (I'd guess that this is more Boak's influence than Clarke's) then I think her sacking him off might seem like a reasonable break between two individuals in a rote relationship rather than a fit young lass sacking off the no-hope loser to go gad about with the cool superhero older man.

Capaldi has said that this particular scene convinced him that the returned series was in good hands. Here, incidentally, is his retrospective - feel free to pretend he's taking part in the thread:

Coo! Lovely find, thanks for that Thomas. I'll watch that later. The "Rose" discussion will be open until next Monday, and even after that, people are welcome to pipe up about any earlier episode if they feel like it.

I love Clive. Fantastic idea (and sympathetically portrayed by Mark Benton). He almost represents a wilderness fan, gathering as much as information as possible on the classic series (before being mercifully gunned down by the New).

This is a great observation, and I do wonder whether it's intentional - a sort of signal to say "look, all that old-school fanboy canon shit isn't actually important right now, just enjoy the mystery". Clive is played quite sympathetically, though, with his attractive wife and moppet son. I wonder if RTD had known about the sort of response his first season would get from the older fans (or "Ming-Mongs", as he called them), he'd have written Clive differently. Well, I suppose we have the Abzorbaloff...

[Mister Six]

I actually watched the first five RTD episodes shortly after Flux for one of the other general Who threads, and gave this a rave review. In hindsight, it was almost certainly just the relief of watching a Doctor Who episode populated by characters, crackling with funny dialogue, zipping from one sceene to the next, and underpinned (however loosely) with actual cause-and-effect logic.

Watching it again yesterday, some of the stuff that irked me back in 2005 got back in my craw: Clarke's overly cartoony performance, Murray Gold's deranged score (the sudden bursts of BIG DRAMA in the Auton attack were really distracting), Rose seeming like a bit of a bitch at the end even if Mickey is a selfish tit.

But none of it was really terrible, just slightly bungled in the execution, and without 2005's gnawing terror that SHIT SHIT PEOPLE WILL REALISE THIS IS RUBBISH AND IT'LL BE CANCELLED OH NO, it's more of an annoyance than a massive flaw.

Besides, the good stuff is GREAT! The Doctor's "turning world" speech is obviously a highlight in this thread (deservedly so), but I love the bit just before that, when Rose is pumping him for information in a long, single-camera shot that weaves its way out of the Powell Estate. The dialogue has such a wonderful spark, and Rose turning The Doctor's "You think the world revolves around you?" remark back on him is golden (as is the way he just absorbs the criticism). Eccleston and Piper have fantastic chemistry, and it's hard to remember how bizarre her casting seemed before the episode went out.

The little things are really well judged too, like Jackie waiting till Rose has gone out to work to pick up the phone, like a naughty teenager - perfectly communicating their relationship in a couple of seconds without any dialogue. Meanwhile, Chibnall would have a whole minute-long scene with Rose saying "You just sit around at home doing nothing while I work - it's like I'm your mum!"

Actually, pretty much any scene with Jackie sings, but I especially love the line Ariana suing someone who said she looked Greek - "I mean, she is, but that's not the point!" Again, so much great characterisation in such a tiny amount of space.

See also: Clive's wife's bafflement that his latest weird visitor is a girl. Gives a lovely little bit of dignity to a character that many others would write as an irredeemable loser. Plus a storming performance from Mark Benton, of course. He'd make a good Master.

As is typical from RTD, the invasion is basically just an excuse to hang the character stuff and jokes on, but that's fine - the important thing is introducing The Doctor, Rose and her world, and it does that really well.

SCORE: I'm wavering between 6 and 7 out of 10, but the bad stuff is really just naff rather than actively awful, and the good stuff is great, so seven Jackies it is!

[Alberon]

He feigns concern about Rose almost being caught in a bombing as a pretext to get them down to the pub to watch a football game, and is generally just a bit childish and daft. Also, the implication (I think) that he's been chatting up other girls by email.

I think the direction makes him seem more cowardly and pathetic than it should, which in turn makes it seem like Rose is punching down a bit. If he'd been played straighter (I'd guess that this is more Boak's influence than Clarke's) then I think her sacking him off might seem like a reasonable break between two individuals in a rote relationship rather than a fit young lass sacking off the no-hope loser to go gad about with the cool superhero older man.

I suppose the point being aimed at is that Rose is rejecting her boring average life for something totally new. Mickey is part of that former existence she has to throw off.

What I find interesting is that Rose is shown to be far from perfect herself. She fails to spot her boyfriend has been replaced by a plastic imposter as she is being totally self-absorbed. She even gets annoyed at Plastic Mickey going on about the Doctor as she's only interested in talking about her own problems.

It makes her a more rounded human being as opposed to, for example, Perfect Dan from the most recent series.

[BritishHobo]

Forgot to do my rating, and I will also have to go for 7 Jackies. A bit too consciously wacky at times, but overall a great mix of all the elements needed to appeal to all the audiences. I've been thinking about it today and I love the way the Doctor is so mysteriously established. The Doctor seeing his reflection for seemingly the first time followed minutes later by photos and drawings of him having adventures across centuries is delightfully timey-wimey. Has Clive's year of research uncovered things that the Doctor has only done, from Rose's perspective, in the last day? For as loud and crazy as big parts of the episode ars, it does a lot of stuff quietly and subtly too.

Seven Jackies some funny bits

7/10

[Mister Six]

I suppose the point being aimed at is that Rose is rejecting her boring average life for something totally new. Mickey is part of that former existence she has to throw off.

What I find interesting is that Rose is shown to be far from perfect herself. She fails to spot her boyfriend has been replaced by a plastic imposter as she is being totally self-absorbed. She even gets annoyed at Plastic Mickey going on about the Doctor as she's only interested in talking about her own problems.

It makes her a more rounded human being as opposed to, for example, Perfect Dan from the most recent series.

Davies talks in The Writer's Tale about how much he likes to make characters selfish. I wonder if that's why Rose/Ten was such an annoying combination - they're both self-obsessed characters and so come across as unbearably smug in union, whereas pairing either of them up with Nine/Martha/Donna provided a bit of contrast.

[BritishHobo]

This is what I'm really hoping to enjoy on this watch. First time around, I always treated the show as if it thought its characters were flawless. Watching RTD's show since has taught me I'm watching wrong - as you say, he can't resist an opportunity to have a character surprise you by not being perfect. I like the complexity of the Doctor being a bit horrible about Mickey potentially being dead, and Rose leaping to Mickey's defence.

[Mister Six]

Something else that's nice about watching this in hindsight - as I implied in my little review above - is that there's no longer any fear that the series might fail and be cancelled. For me, that worry led to the negatives about an episode (however minor) overshadowing the positives.

This time around, though, I can better enjoy it (and criticise it) for what it actually is.

Has Clive's year of research uncovered things that the Doctor has only done, from Rose's perspective, in the last day?

I like to imagine all that stuff happened between The Doctor disappearing at the end and coming back with "Did I mention it travels in time?" Even more so if he intended just to jump ahead 30 seconds to impress Rose, only to end up having to have years of adventures to get back to where he was before.

[daf]

I like to imagine all that stuff happened between The Doctor disappearing at the end and coming back with "Did I mention it travels in time?" Even more so if he intended just to jump ahead 30 seconds to impress Rose, only to end up having to have years of adventures to get back to where he was before.

Thought the Big Finish series would have done this, but so far they're all set before (the episode) Rose.

[Mister Six]

I wonder if there's a running gag about him getting distracted every time he's near a reflective surface.

[BritishHobo]

I like to imagine all that stuff happened between The Doctor disappearing at the end and coming back with "Did I mention it travels in time?" Even more so if he intended just to jump ahead 30 seconds to impress Rose, only to end up having to have years of adventures to get back to where he was before.

Oooooh. I like that idea even more. That Clive shows Rose historical references to the Doctor doing things which he hasn't even actually done yet narratively. That's brilliant.

[daf]

First reports of the return of the show :


Radio Times (11 October 2003)  |  TV Times (6 December 2003)

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Radio Times (13 March 2004)  |  Pink Paper (2 April 2004)

[daf]

Ninth Doctor Cast :


The Guardian (20 March 2004)  |  Daily Telegraph (20 March 2004)

- - - - - - - - - - -


Daily Express (25 May 2004)  |  Western Mail (25 May 2004)  |  Metro (25 May 2004)

- - - - - - - - - - -



TV Times (11 September 2004)  |  London Evening Standard (1 December 2004)

[A Hat Like That]

I love Clive. Fantastic idea (and sympathetically portrayed by Mark Benton). He almost represents a wilderness fan, gathering as much as information as possible on the classic series (before being mercifully gunned down by the New).

That's exactly how I read him.

There's even a little moment just before he dies when he gets to say "it's all true".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt8bNfOlM7I

Those children's mannequins tho'

The other little moment I really is a shot taken pretty much exactly from the TV movie.

[Norton Canes]

Yeah Clive was the best thing about Rose. So disappointed to see him (apparently) killed - thought he was going to be a major recurrent thing throughout that first season. What a waste!

[Mister Six]

Cheers for these! Interesting reading - and this one in particular reminded me of something I'd forgotten: how unusual it seemed to have a Doctor who's not dressed up in some self-consciously quirky fashion. A generally sensible choice, I think. Thank god Smith nixed the pirate look Moffat had wanted, and Capaldi ditched the magician's coat look (although I preferred him in a nice velvet jacket to a hoodie, later on).

That said, Gatwa dresses stylish as fuck, so honestly his Doctor could look a bit more like this and I wouldn't mind...









(He can lose the bleached moustache though.)

Bonus pic: Gatwa and upcoming Doctor Who star Yasmin Finney.

The other little moment I really is a shot taken pretty much exactly from the TV movie.

Which one's that? I haven't seen it since broadcast.

[A Hat Like That]

Literally spent an hour today trying to find it but no luck.

There's a bit where they hold hands and run to the camera at about the same stage in the episode in both. It feels so similar that it could be a nice touch. I might just be reading too much into it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXonIeell_A - end of this for the bit in Rose

[The Guppy]

I remember being giddy with excitement when this was about to air. I loved the title sequence and hated the music in the rest of the episode. And that's what stuck with me the most - how the music was a bit fucking much, mate. And rewatching today, the music immediately got on my tits. She's getting out of bed and going on a bus, mate. She's in a fucking lift, mate. What are you playing at?

I remember Jackie going apeshit about the coffee table, but that didn't happen. Did I imagine that, or is it in a later episode?

Eccleston is so jaunty after leaving the flat with the hand. Bouncing along like man twice and half his size. Chris loves being the Doctor, and the Doctor loves being himself.