UB40

[TheMonk]

The fact that there are two not very good versions of UB40 treading around these days is weird. If ever there was a band that should give it away (especially with the recent death of two key members) it's UB40.
Get a load of this toss.

Early stuff had its moments, mind you. Saw them live in the early 90s and it was a serviceable show. They seemed like a well oiled unit. The wheels falling off with Ali Campbell and Mickey Virtue and the dearly departed Astro all leaving and two warring factions still going at it like limping wounded dogs is just unnecessary.

[Kankurette]

Is there a Beach Boys/Brian Wilson kind of thing going on here?

[buzby]

Is there a Beach Boys/Brian Wilson kind of thing going on here?

More like sibling infighting. Ali and Robin Campbell had a major falling out about the band's management and financial situation. Ali left, supposedly to go solo, followed shortly afterwards by Mickey Virtue and Astro, who didn't like the direction Robin and the others were taking the band. Robin Campbell drafted their brother Duncan in as replacmeent vocalist. Ali, Mickey and Astro then began to record and perform as 'UB40 featuring Ali, Astro and Mickey', which led Robin's faction to sue him over the use of the name. The case is still going through the courts I think

[Bennett Brauer]

Nobody knows me
Even though I'm always there
A statistic, a reminder
Of a world that doesn't care
My arms enfold the dole queue
Malnutrition dulls my hair
My eyes are black and lifeless
With an underprivileged stare
My posts are all ignored
And I feel lost among these wags
It was better in the old days
When I would call them cunts in tags

[DrGreggles]

The early stuff is decent, but they moved into cod reggae cover band territory pretty quickly.

I find it weird that a group of guys who clearly once had an affinity for that music would be so willing to take a massive shit on it for the sake of a few quid.

[Rev+]

Ali left, supposedly to go solo, followed shortly afterwards by Mickey Virtue and Astro, who didn't like the direction Robin and the others were taking the band.

What's never been clear about that is what the 'musical difference' was.  Were they leaving lounge reggae behind for speed metal?  The answer is probably.

[ProvanFan]

The version I saw at Boomtown did not play the You and Me song and I doubt the other one does either. Idiots. Cosmo and Dibs could be joining them on stage.

[DrGreggles]

The version I saw at Boomtown did not play the You and Me song and I doubt the other one does either. Idiots. Cosmo and Dibs could be joining them on stage.

I spent years believing I could do an ace Cosmo impression, but then I realised that I could only do an ace Dibs impression.

[bigfatheart]

What's never been clear about that is what the 'musical difference' was.  Were they leaving lounge reggae behind for speed metal?  The answer is probably.

Hadn't they gone country?

I've been catching up on Top of the Pops from the early 80s recently, and I'm surprised by how much I've enjoyed their early stuff, One in Ten, Earth Dies Screaming, etc. I knew they'd started off good before going shit, but I really found them to be a highlight whenever they were on, even during a pretty good period. They haven't been on for a while now, though, so I'm sure when they do return it'll herald their decline into Jahraoke.

[aunt mildred]

Sould have changed their name to es40jp in the later days hoho. I didn't have a clue about the bad blood between them but there's no denying this is a cracker.

[the science eel]

This is easily their best, and it's up there with 'Geno', 'Message In A Bottle', whatever else you care to mention from its era. Haunting and memorable, lads with something to say. They lost it very soon after.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

I spent most of my life convinced that they were literally the worst band in the world, probably because my dad used to like those Labour of Love albums, which were and are absolutely horrible. (I suppose it's nice the original songwriters got a payday from them though, I'll give those albums that)

Signing Off and Present Arms, however, are actually good. Almost like a different band made them.

[SpiderChrist]

Even UB44 had its moments.

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Jahwaddywaddy shit was intended to make money to help fund their tours, as they always took their families on tour with them, thereby pushing up the costs.

[Shaky]

To be fair, them and a million other bands chased the shiny money in the 80's and probably told themselves all sorts of lies to excuse it. No need for the splinter group shit happening now, though. Pack it in, lads. Pack it in.

[Jockice]

There was a brilliant documentary called Promises And Lies on BBC4 a few years ago, which went into the split with interviews with members of both factions (I think Earl Falconer and Norman Hassan were the only two who didn't participate). They were a band I'd never really shown much interest in up till then - they were just there really. Like Coldplay now, a band who were big, I didn't actually hate but didn't like much either -  but have watched it several times since. Some of it is actually jaw-dropping, especially the mystery of where all the money actually went.

It's quite sad actually (and this is before members started dying) as they all ended up skint and hating people they'd known for most of their lives, or indeed their entire lives as in the case of the Campbell brothers. There also seemed to be absolutely no racism involved. Personal grudges which had bugger all to do with skin colour.

Now that Astro's dead and Mickey Virtue's departed (I've heard rumours he tried to rejoin team Robin but was rebuffed) Ali is the only remaining member of that faction yet he was on BBC Breakfast talking about forthcoming dates with UB40 with no mention of the split.

I should have mentioned them in the 'shit bands you have a fascination with' thread. Although they weren't entirely shit. I'd never owned anything by them and as far as I can remember had only ever heard the first album all the way through, but the documentary piqued my interest to such an extent I started investigating their back catalogue. And some of it ain't bad. I still think Red Red Wine is one of the worst number one singles of all time though. Dreadful dreadful whine more like!!!!!!!

[buzby]

Hadn't they gone country?

Yes, the last album Astro was on before he left, Getting Over The Storm, was about half covers of country standards. This was made Radio 2's Album Of The Week and got 5-star reviews in the newspapers (???)

There was a brilliant documentary called Promises And Lies on BBC4 a few years ago, which went into the split with interviews with members of both factions (I think Earl Falconer and Norman Hassan were the only two who didn't participate). They were a band I'd never really shown much interest in up till then - they were just there really. Like Coldplay now, a band who were big, I didn't actually hate but didn't like much either -  but have watched it several times since. Some of it is actually jaw-dropping, especially the mystery of where all the money actually went.

Yes, that documentary is a great watch. I should have mentioned in my previous post that shortly before the above album's release, the band's management company and label, DEP International, was declared bankrupt, and the 5 remaining founder members, directors of the company and Ali were also declared personally bankrupt.

DEP had gone into administration in 2006, which is part of what led Ali to depart a couple of years later. DEP's administators sold the rights to the recordings to a new company called Reflex Recordings Ltd in 2009, but the rights to the name were still held by DEP.

The outcome of this was that when they went to court over the rights to the name, the Robin faction argued that DEP's liquidators had transferred the rights to the name and the band's website address to them in 2015, and so the case should be dismissed. Ali's faction argued that they had ceased to be employed by DEP in 2006 and as it was bankrupt it no longer had any functioning business or goodwill to sell by 2015. The judge agreed with Ali's faction's reasoning and allowed the case to proceed.

[Jockice]

There's a mention on another thread a few days ago about Jamaican families being into country music because there was a country channel they could pick up over there. I haven't got the time to look up that post at the moment (believe it or not I'm actually working to a deadline today so I'm going to log off this site in a minute) but Astro sneered at the album in the documentary saying that the final straw was having to promote it.

[mrClaypole]

There's a mention on another thread a few days ago about Jamaican families being into country music because there was a country channel they could pick up over there. I haven't got the time to look up that post at the moment (believe it or not I'm actually working to a deadline today so I'm going to log off this site in a minute) but Astro sneered at the album in the documentary saying that the final straw was having to promote it.

I love Ub40 and really hate the lazy way in which they are dismissed as becoming a lazy cover band. The fact is that the majority of their output has been original material unfortunately for them they are permanently tarred as a covers band because their biggest hits where covers and are now the songs mostly likely played on radio.
The last album by ub40 (not the Ali name stealing one) "for the many" is brilliant.  Its all original material Barr one song. Its as political and insightful lyrically as any of their earlier albums. The music and production is as good as anything you would hear out of the current Jamaican reggae scene.
Compare it to Ali Campbells latest album and you will see where the talent lies within the band when they were all together.  Its shocking to see the ub40 name attached to such crap.


It's also a total lie that Astro left because he hated the Getting over the storm album as it's record that he loved the album and the story of him hating it was invented by Alis management too justify leaving his former band.

The real truth of Astro leaving is this.  Ub40 had gigs booked and Astro came to the band and said "im skint" I won't tour if I don't get some money up front as I'm about to lose my house"
The band had a gig booked in Liverpool on the Thursday of that week and didn't want Astro to refuse to play, so they gave Astro the last 60k they had in the bands account. The very next day Astro was on Talksport saying that he had left UB40 citing his hatred for the country album and would be playing a gig with Ali on the Friday of the very same week he was supposed to be in Liverpool.

The band had had their suspicions that Astro was going to jump ship as he was taking more interest in the technical aspects of the live production process,  something he had never done in the 30 odd years he had been with them.
Turns out he was giving these details to Ali's crew so that his band of session players could get a more authentic UB40 sound.

Anyway he sold his soul and had been lured by a 50/50 split of the lions share of the profits of a gig instead of recieving a 1/8th equal share with the original band.

Despite appearances in the media Ali and Astro were not really friends.  Ali was always trying to get Astro fired from the band in the ub40 days. Ali just saw Astro as a way of trying to lure more of the loyal fans of Robins band to him.

I have it on great authority that in the last few years Astro was desperate to leave Ali as he was miserable being with him but couldn't as he had no other way of making a living.

[Brundle-Fly]

A lot of Gen-Exers' reggae starter kits forty odd years ago and for that I'll be eternally grateful.  I say 1980-1985 were a good run of singles/albums, first two LPs - brilliant. I lost my way with them around Rat In Mi Kitchen. A crying shame how it all panned out.

[Jockice]

I love Ub40 and really hate the lazy way in which they are dismissed as becoming a lazy cover band. The fact is that the majority of their output has been original material unfortunately for them they are permanently tarred as a covers band because their biggest hits where covers and are now the songs mostly likely played on radio.
The last album by ub40 (not the Ali name stealing one) "for the many" is brilliant.  Its all original material Barr one song. Its as political and insightful lyrically as any of their earlier albums. The music and production is as good as anything you would hear out of the current Jamaican reggae scene.
Compare it to Ali Campbells latest album and you will see where the talent lies within the band when they were all together.  Its shocking to see the ub40 name attached to such crap.


It's also a total lie that Astro left because he hated the Getting over the storm album as it's record that he loved the album and the story of him hating it was invented by Alis management too justify leaving his former band.

The real truth of Astro leaving is this.  Ub40 had gigs booked and Astro came to the band and said "im skint" I won't tour if I don't get some money up front as I'm about to lose my house"
The band had a gig booked in Liverpool on the Thursday of that week and didn't want Astro to refuse to play, so they gave Astro the last 60k they had in the bands account. The very next day Astro was on Talksport saying that he had left UB40 citing his hatred for the country album and would be playing a gig with Ali on the Friday of the very same week he was supposed to be in Liverpool.

The band had had their suspicions that Astro was going to jump ship as he was taking more interest in the technical aspects of the live production process,  something he had never done in the 30 odd years he had been with them.
Turns out he was giving these details to Ali's crew so that his band of session players could get a more authentic UB40 sound.

Anyway he sold his soul and had been lured by a 50/50 split of the lions share of the profits of a gig instead of recieving a 1/8th equal share with the original band.

Despite appearances in the media Ali and Astro were not really friends.  Ali was always trying to get Astro fired from the band in the ub40 days. Ali just saw Astro as a way of trying to lure more of the loyal fans of Robins band to him.

I have it on great authority that in the last few years Astro was desperate to leave Ali as he was miserable being with him but couldn't as he had no other way of making a living.

For what it's worth I'm Team Not Ali too. There just seems to be something not quite straight up about him and as someone said in the documentary it was obvious that once he'd left that the rest of the band would carry on with another singer. Although the fact it happened to be another Campbell brother must have hurt him. But Duncan did call Ali and ask permission (something Robin didn't want him to do) and Ali didn't refuse it, even if he wasn't happy. Apparently he hasn't spoken to his brothers since then (even the one who has never been in the band) and didn't even attend either of his parents' funerals

Astro asking for money and immediately jumping ship is also covered in the documentary, mentioned by Brian Travers (if you haven't already seen it, I can't recommend it enough) and I have to say that he just doesn't come out of it well as far as I'm concerned. Mickey Virtue (the only one of them I've ever interviewed, a long time before the split. He seemed like a decent bloke) comes across better, although his reasons for joining Ali come across as a bit opaque.

As for the music I've never really been much of a reggae head (that's the correct expression isn't it?) but as I've got older I can appreciate it more. I've heard more of their early stuff now as well as more of both sides' post split material and as you said the band with the most original members sound better. But I'm no expert at all. If it hadn't been for the documentary it's quite possible I'd never have investigated them or ever heard anything more by then apart from the tracks you occasionally hear on the radio.

The whole psychology of the thing is totally fascinating though. Apparently some members of the rival factions' children are in relationships with each other so there must be lots of really awkward conversations there.

[mrClaypole]

For what it's worth I'm Team Not Ali too. There just seems to be something not quite straight up about him and as someone said in the documentary it was obvious that once he'd left that the rest of the band would carry on with another singer. Although the fact it happened to be another Campbell brother must have hurt him. Although Duncan did call Ali and ask permission (something Robin didn't want him to do) and Ali didn't refuse it. Although apparently he hasn't spoken to his brothers since then and didn't even attend either of his parents' funerals

Astro asking for money and immediately jumping ship is also covered in the documentary, mentioned by Brian Travers (if you haven't already seen it, I can't recommend it enough) and I have to say that he just doesn't come out of it well as far as I'm concerned. Mickey Virtue (the only one of them I've ever interviewed, a long time before the split. He seemed like a decent bloke) comes across better, although his reasons for joining Ali come across as a bit opaque.

As for the music I've never really been much of a reggae head (that's the correct expression isn't it?) but as I've got older I can appreciate it more. I've heard more of their early stuff now as well as more of both sides' post split material and as you said the band with the most original members sound better. But I'm no expert at all. If it hadn't been for the documentary it's quite possible I'd never have investigated them or ever heard anything more by then apart from the tracks you occasionally hear on the radio.

Heres Robin to explain it better than me



https://youtu.be/jVAD9z3gL9s

[Kankurette]

Ali has eight kids. I wonder how many of them are dating UB40 members' spawn.

[mrClaypole]

Ali has eight kids. I wonder how many of them are dating UB40 members' spawn.

Well I know at least one is living in poverty and suffering mental health issues.  So not a very funny remark to make

[Jockice]

There's a concert by the original line-up on BBC4 later tonight. I think I'll have seen it when it was originally shown (there was a series of live shows from that venue in Hitchin in the 80s) but will record it just to remind me of when they were one.

[Kankurette]

Well I know at least one is living in poverty and suffering mental health issues.  So not a very funny remark to make

It wasn't meant to be funny. The whole thing sounds like a complete shitshow.

[mrClaypole]

It wasn't meant to be funny. The whole thing sounds like a complete shitshow.

Caused by Ali.  The rest of the band look out and support his kids.  He doesn't

[mrClaypole]

There's a concert by the original line-up on BBC4 later tonight. I think I'll have seen it when it was originally shown (there was a series of live shows from that venue in Hitchin in the 80s) but will record it just to remind me of when they were one.

Yep. Great gig.

[Kankurette]

Caused by Ali.  The rest of the band look out and support his kids.  He doesn't

Wow. Father of the Year there.

[ProvanFan]

We wanna be 'avin eight babies

[mrClaypole]

Sould have changed their name to es40jp in the later days hoho. I didn't have a clue about the bad blood between them but there's no denying this is a cracker.

https://youtu.be/DTnATywQ