Cost Of Living Crisis (COLC) - How fucked are ye?

[Pink Gregory]

Just about staving off the dread by assuming something simply has to be done to prevent the forecasted price cap rises hitting the general public, because it'll be carnage for so many aspects of the economy that the cost of a severe recession will outweigh this slavish devotion to pleasing investors and shareholders. Sentiment will massively swing towards renationalising public utilities as well. They must know this.

Sentiment is already quite far towards public ownership and has been for a while if polling is to be believed. 

Whether it'd be now enough to make it a voting/protesting issue rather than one of opinion, that's the question.

[Blinder Data]

something will be done. the treasury are drawing up options while twin Tory horrors shout at each other.

it will be a classic fudge to avoid nationalisation. I can see Truss acting to save businesses and vulnerables but leave most households to the wolves.

whatever it is, it won't be enough to stop loads of businesses (including fish and chip shops!!!) from going under and some extreme energy poverty.

my mate was looking up energy tariffs recently and was seriously considering fixing his monthly amount at 230 quid. this is a small place in Leeds. mental.

[Bernice]

If the government do nothing at all there will 100% be civil unrest and disobedience.

They will probably do something, because the ambient noise around this is very bad, and they are still responsive to poll numbers if nothing else. They will almost certainly not do enough, because their ideology and their class interest simply will not allow it.

But I don't think you can overstate the contempt in which these people hold the public. To a huge number of politicians (Tories especially, naturally), "normal people" are a frightful, moronic and easily-manipulated mass best engaged with on the level of numbers and aggregates to be shepherded towards certain desired outcomes.

Even within this sort of class-solipsism there should be, used to be, a notion that if you drive the animals too hard they might turn against you. But they've lived so long and so resolutely in this end of history mindset – long after history took 50,000 volts up the arse and started walking round again going 'grrrr' – that they're incapable of seeing a bad outcome beyond poor polling and declining profit. They really don't realise how precarious they've become. They've mistaken a contingent position for an immutable law. I'm not even saying this with any glee, I'm basically terrified of what happens if they push this shit too far. But at a certain point, Enough is Enough.

[Zetetic]

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/in-the-dread-of-winter/

Lean hog up 66% and RF seemingly suggesting that "annual CPI inflation rising to over 15 per cent in Q1 2023" isn't implausible.

[PlanktonSideburns]

https://www.resolutionfoundation.org/publications/in-the-dread-of-winter/

Lean hog up 66% and RF seemingly suggesting that "annual CPI inflation rising to over 15 per cent in Q1 2023" isn't implausible.

Just as well truss got in early on all them pork markets

[Alberon]

Inflation has risen to 10.1% which was apparently worse than expected.

Meanwhile a Tory peer and chairman of Asda is laying into the government for doing precisely nothing.

Lord Stuart Rose, chairman of Asda and a Conservative peer, says inaction in laying out plans for dealing with the inflation crisis in "horrifying".

"I think we've been very, very slow in recognising this train coming down the tunnel. It's now here, and it's not about to run us over, it's [already] run quite a lot of people over," he tells the BBC's Radio 4 Today programme.

Inflation will increase further than the 10.1% announced this morning, he predicts, and says he wants to hear more from political leaders on how to deal with the a crisis that "is not about to go away".

"Nothing is happening. We're sitting here now into the second, third, fourth month of this crisis and we're still waiting to see what action will be taken," he says. "It's horrifying."

Lord Rose says he would like to see "targeted action" for those in most need of help.

"I want to make sure we look after those people who can't take the hit and we know who those people are. We should be dealing with it now. Some money has gone to them, some more is going to them but it will not be enough," he says.

He also references cabinet minister Sajid Javid saying he was waiting on "more facts" over the crisis.

"What 'more facts' is he waiting for?" Lord Rose asks.

[shoulders]

Those most in need of help have already been hit by his train metaphor. Obviously they need help,  but if he followed his own logic then the help also needs directing at those who the train is heading for and will be splatting in the next few months.

Or we could just renationalise utilities for £2.85bn, cap energy costs and enshrine access to gas, electricity and water as an inalienable right. Our money would then be spent on something positive rather than shoring up and legitimising the profits of private shareholders (which is what Starmer's plan would achieve,  and cost much more in the process)

[Zetetic]

"Inflation" is a bit of unhelpful gloss for a specific measure of it for reasons that @shoulders hints at above - for some people, particularly the poorest, prices of the things they're buying are rising far faster.

[Twit 2]

dp

[Twit 2]

Inflation has risen to 10.1% which was apparently worse than expected.

Meanwhile a Tory peer and chairman of Asda is laying into the government for doing precisely nothing.

Love it when Tories look around at the mess and say, "Ooh hang on, this is a bit strong..." Who did you think you were voting for, you muppet?

[elliszeroed]

Just found out my electric bill will be going up, from 100 pound a month to 400. Sheer criminality.

[Alberon]

"Inflation" is a bit of unhelpful gloss for a specific measure of it for reasons that @shoulders hints at above - for some people, particularly the poorest, prices of the things they're buying are rising far faster.

Here's the real price increases of basic foodstuffs and baby products.

[shoulders]

Just found out my electric bill will be going up, from 100 pound a month to 400. Sheer criminality.

It can't be paid,  it's robbery. £400 a month? Fuck off.

[Twit 2]

Just the leccy? What about gas?

[elliszeroed]

We don't have gas.

I wonder, what percentage of the citizenship have to fall into "poverty" (which gets redefined every year or so anyway) for the government to recognise there's a problem? If we can't pay for water, electricity, is that considered okay because taxes come out of our pay automatically?

You bet if the government had to wait in line, they'd do more to help.

[Ferris]

It's all so ludicrously demoralizing that when ofgem set the cap at £3k and people think "christ, I'm fucked" they might as well raise it to £5k because why not? Who's going to stop them? Fuck it, make it £20k, people might pay it.

Services that people just can't do without can be made increasingly expensive, drip drip drip, and unless a government does something everyone pays it. Rent, energy, gas, petrol, food; what are you gonna do mate not eat? Exactly; hand it over.

The cynic in me recognizes that inflation seems a dead handy way to devalue the cost of hiring proles which leads to mega Q2 profits! Of course, they can't afford to buy whatever it is you sell and eventually they'll scrabble together a guillotine but until then, trebles all round! I reckon that's at least part of the thinking, reckless shortsighted profit-making at the expense of all else.

It's astounding.

[Twit 2]

It's all so ludicrously demoralizing that when ofgem set the cap at £3k and people think "christ, I'm fucked" they might as well raise it to £5k because why not? Who's going to stop them? Fuck it, make it £20k, people might pay it.

Services that people just can't do without can be made increasingly expensive, drip drip drip, and unless a government does something everyone pays it. Rent, energy, gas, petrol, food; what are you gonna do mate not eat? Exactly; hand it over.

The cynic in me recognizes that inflation seems a dead handy way to devalue the cost of hiring proles which leads to mega Q2 profits! Of course, they can't afford to buy whatever it is you sell and eventually they'll scrabble together a guillotine but until then, trebles all round! I reckon that's at least part of the thinking, reckless shortsighted profit-making at the expense of all else.

It's astounding.

Tories gonna cunt. Revolution asap.

[Zetetic]

"The choice," said Dorling, "may be between propping up the housing market, or ensuring that people don't freeze over the winter."

Source.


Well.

[PlanktonSideburns]

Ssssss tricky.

[Crenners]

We've agreed to tell them to fuck off. If they cut us off, we can burn wood - undoubtedly an enormous privilege - but we need to support this. Shithole nation.

[imitationleather]

Just found out my electric bill will be going up, from 100 pound a month to 400. Sheer criminality.

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid the only thing it's acceptable to spend £400 a month on is drugs.

[TrenterPercenter]

Thing is the with the houses prices is what does them dropping actually do?  House prices are high because there isn't enough of them, as has been pointed out house prices drop and people that can will just sit in them until they rise again, others who get bogged down in negative equity and increased interest rates lose there home and what then? some one previously renting moves in taking on the debt from the bank.

We really need to think about how house prices drop as it will mainly impact younger, poorer people (basically people that can afford a small deposit and little else) with recent buyers being punished the most, anyone with decent equity or Boomers that own their homes outright aren't affected and in fact the drop in the market is beneficial for them and other people with liquidity to hover up some cheaper properties.  Which is obviously what will happen.

Please don't read this as not wanting house prices to drop, they must but it obviously needs other things around protecting those that it would hurt (it's not the banks getting hurt it's the "owner" that is left with massive debts) and to have the desire impact that we need.

[Pink Gregory]

Please don't read this as not wanting house prices to drop, they must but it obviously needs other things around protecting those that it would hurt (it's not the banks getting hurt it's the "owner" that is left with massive debts) and to have the desire impact that we need.

Or we could do something about rent controls, secure contracts etc.

I don't care about owning an asset, we just want to not be kicked out with two week's notice.  I'm sure I'm not alone on that.

[TrenterPercenter]

Or we could do something about rent controls, secure contracts etc.

Yep exactly this.

Rent controls would hit the landlord class and free up more homes to occupiers, then I think there should be some tying of asset to loan ratios with banks i.e. if house prices drop significantly then bank debts track this drop (say for anyone within 5 years of mortgage).  Again makes the banks behave themselves a bit and not pump up the market with silly products and making money out of misery.

[Goldentony]

all for a nice limit on rent, secure contracts, ban on owning more than one property, utilities being the landlords responsibility, some way of enforcing property maintenance by these cunts, a proper punishment for not doing so to give them the fucking fear to go through with it and then a public serice announcement saying anyone thinking of buying a home during this period must be fucking demented.

[Buelligan]

Or we could do something about rent controls, secure contracts etc.

I don't care about owning an asset, we just want to not be kicked out with two week's notice.  I'm sure I'm not alone on that.

I think rent controls will still affect the housing market - in the sense that greedy people will see the profits to be made from renting out their portfolio of property reduced (and maybe their "rights" to kick people out, along with their responsibilities to maintain, changing in a way that they see as adverse).  Which will mean some or many might choose to sell.  Which will mean prices drop.

Whether you build more stock, introduce rent controls, tax additional properties heavily, IMO whatever you do, if you reduce the ease and profit for the owners and landlords, house prices will drop.

Obviously, it has to happen.

[Goldentony]

sorry for the double post but I think honestly ideally we need to get people to see Landlords currently the way people look at and treat service staff, if we can focus that anaemic middle class rage onto landlords and smack them about like little medieval bastards who muck out stables

[TrenterPercenter]

all for a nice limit on rent, secure contracts, ban on owning more than one property, utilities being the landlords responsibility, some way of enforcing property maintenance by these cunts, a proper punishment for not doing so to give them the fucking fear to go through with it and then a public serice announcement saying anyone thinking of buying a home during this period must be fucking demented.

Yep threaten them and banks with pubic ownership for piss poor behaviour in either fleecing renters or mortgagers (remember people with mortgages are ultimately just hire-purchasing from the bank)

[Zetetic]

Any adjustment does more good than harm, not least because it goes some way towards disconnecting the Westminster government and housing supply from their existing commitments to the bubble.

It is sad that scams often affect the worst off most of all.

[shoulders]

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/politics/council/leeds-renters-urged-to-demand-change-as-acorn-union-presses-leeds-council-for-tougher-action-on-slum-landlords-3806977

Some local action from Acorn who I am a member of. Take a look at them and join up if you have a little bit of money to help these good people.