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Sandman (Netflix)

Started by shoulders, August 05, 2022, 10:11:35 PM

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shoulders

That opening episode was absolutely terrible. I'm not sure I've seen such a well financed shiny thing be so utterly horribly hopeless at almost any element of making a show gripping, transporting, relatable. Just an embarrassing kid in a sweetshop set of indulgent cloying badly paced nonsense with no form of characterisation or even immersion, the one thing it was clearly trying to reach. Collected pretty much everything I hate about modern tv production in one place.

Cheers.

Ah ffs; that's bad news, although obviously not that surprised. I adore the comic and really enjoyed the Audible series, was really hoping they wouldn't fuck this up, although I was not a fan of how the titular Sandman looked. I'll give it a try anyway. Sad.

Yep; everything you opined is spot on sadly. The Sandman is a comic that celebrated the endless scope of the human imagination; unhinged, infinite and erratic ideas that really set my own imagination alight. The amalgamation of different religions, mythologies, folklore and popular fiction all co existing within one wild universe...so to see it diluted to this extent is orrible...just got to the bit where Sanjeev Baskar and Chabuddy G appear as Cain and Abel and have quietly shut my laptop and assumed the foetal position

why is his jaw like that does it mean something

elliszeroed

My reveiw, from the Shelf Abuse thread:

So I watched the whole series today. Spoilers yo!

First episode is pretty crap. Morpheus' monologue was dull, as was Lucien's warning him about entering the waking world. But it gets better.

I suppose what every Sandman fan is wondering is: The Sound Of Her Wings. It is considered a MAKER of the comic, but what about the TV series, especially with a Death who is... shudder...black!?! The episode has high fidelty to the comic- good dialogue, above average presentation. Kudos on showing the baby death. Death as compassion I found slightly heart warming. Just like the comics. Her skin color/ dress really seems incidental.

There's a good discussion of Dream finding "joy" in having a purpose, and then we have Death telling him that their function is their purpose, and her having joy in that. Rich text.

I didn't think much of Lucifer TBH. The aesthetics seemed all wrong. Big black wings, overly curly hair. I didn't care for it. The presentation and dialogue never came across as smart, manipulative, sexy, or anything else. Very, very dull. Should have used the actor from the Lucifer TV show.

Desire was spot on. Made me think of a 1960's Joker.

Still not sure on the guy who played Dream really, he wasn't bad, or good, he just didn't seem able to convincingly show emotion. Sometimes Morpheus looked skinny in the face, other times like  he had eaten too many pies.


Serial Killer convention wasn't like in the comics, and much like the comics I never really understood the Rose Walker story- Unity was supposed to be the vortex, but because Dream was in prison she was raped by Desire and that led to Rose being the vortex? With Desire knowing that if Dream killed Rose he woud be killing a child of the Endless? I think that's right?

Enjoyed seeing Hob Galding. I forgot/ didn't realise they missed a meeting due to Morpheus being inprisoned (and this was after Morpheus said he would never see him again?)

Not a bad series, but not a great one either.


Oh, and Jenna Coleman wasnn't shit either.

Overall, I would give it a 7/10. Whatever numbers mean nowadays.

13 schoolyards

I'm really hoping it picks up from that first episode because yeah, it's not great. Which is strange because the central story in episode one (we summoned up a weird bloke and now he's caged in the basement freaking everyone out) should make for a good episode, but literally everything aside from it is crap exposition spoken against a crap CGI backdrop.

I'm starting to suspect Neil Gaiman isn't as good a showrunner as Neil Gaiman keeps saying he is.

Dr Rock

I'm on episode 5, I'd say it definitely gets better. Not saying it's brilliant, but I'm enjoying it a lot now.

Next episode, The Sound Of Her Wings. Don't fuck this one up please.

I haven't watched Sandman yet but I will because I love the graphic novels. (Although my enthusiasm is slightly dented by learning Jenna Coleman appears).

Quote from: 13 schoolyards on August 06, 2022, 07:47:36 AMI'm really hoping it picks up from that first episode because yeah, it's not great. Which is strange because the central story in episode one (we summoned up a weird bloke and now he's caged in the basement freaking everyone out) should make for a good episode, but literally everything aside from it is crap exposition spoken against a crap CGI backdrop.

This immediately made me think of Good Omens, where episode one was smothered in narration to such an extent it nearly killed the series dead.

Quote from: 13 schoolyards on August 06, 2022, 07:47:36 AMI'm starting to suspect Neil Gaiman isn't as good a showrunner as Neil Gaiman keeps saying he is.

This could be the nub of the problem.

holdover

#8
I binged it all last night. I was very excited for this and have been a huge fan of the comics since promotional push DC did for the Season Of Mists fancy hardcover back in the day.

It's quite poor overall. They've blanded it out. So many little things were missing from it,
Spoiler alert
Burgess's eternal waking into more nightmares being replaced by eternal sleep, Dee flat out murdering the lady who gives him a lift.

I'd read Gaiman say that they'd changed the baby scene in The Sound Of Her Wings so as "not to break people". I suppose that's the problem. They've left it a bit toothless.
[close]

It also seems to have been filmed with lenses what make some scenes look they are in the wrong aspect ratio? I'm assuming it's deliberate but found it quite distracting. Slightly less so than Dreams puffy face in a few scenes.

Dr Rock


Two episodes in and this is really muddled so far. Over explaining some things and not explaining other things. Hard to see how it would appeal to someone who hasn't read the comic.

Butchers Blind

Every clip and trailer I've seen of this the acting looks appalling like they're reading the lines for the first time.

shoulders

Quote from: Butchers Blind on August 06, 2022, 11:58:02 AMEvery clip and trailer I've seen of this the acting looks appalling like they're reading the lines for the first time.

I only watched due to a very positive Guardian review, but the reviewer must have been raised on shit like this because it was so far outside my level of tolerance that reading the praise back makes me wonder what they were seeing.

My view was reinforced as we followed it up with an 80s low budget film of a totally different genre. The art of storytelling as entertainment is universal really, and it summed up the utter waste of time that is creating these slick monumental fantasy worlds when you can't tell a story to save your fucking life.


Catalogue Trousers

#13
Is it perhaps, then, best summed up with a Good Omens comparison - the telly version's fine, as long as you haven't read the source?

hate to lower the tone but Clara from DW is fit. Don't know why she's acting like she's in a late night Eastenders episode in this though.

TrenterPercenter

Other half wanted to give this a go, 100% exactly what I hate about a lot of modern UK centric productions.  Dripping with Dr Who Kook and upper Middle Class Rada workings.  I don't know why but with these things my classdar just goes wild it just feels like inert gruel for the proles.  It's good that the cast is diverse but it's hollow because they are all ultimately acting like they are from the same background.

Anyway looks like I'm in for the long haul as my other half whilst not completely convinced is sold on trailered promise of creatures, critters and possibly seeing the leads cock at some point.  Not my thing.

Mister Six

Quote from: dontpaintyourteeth on August 06, 2022, 01:13:42 PMhate to lower the tone but Clara from DW is fit. Don't know why she's acting like she's in a late night Eastenders episode in this though.

At least she's acting now.

Jack Shaftoe

I'm enjoying it so far? Up to ep 4. Although the phrase 'as you know' was in episodes one and two, which is quite poor. Think it helps that I've just re-read the comics, so I have that and the tv series as completely separate things in my head.

The aspect ratio thing is quite odd, isn't it? It's like they want to go bigger and wider than cinema, then panic and push the camera right up in the actors' faces (that's the best description I can manage, I don't know much about cinematography).

Dr Rock



Quote from: Jack Shaftoe on August 06, 2022, 02:58:50 PMI'm enjoying it so far? Up to ep 4. Although the phrase 'as you know' was in episodes one and two, which is quite poor. Think it helps that I've just re-read the comics, so I have that and the tv series as completely separate things in my head.

The aspect ratio thing is quite odd, isn't it? It's like they want to go bigger and wider than cinema, then panic and push the camera right up in the actors' faces (that's the best description I can manage, I don't know much about cinematography).

I'm on episode 5 and it's doing a lot of those sort of... angled close-ups of people's faces? Like Battlefield Earth. Odd choice

Dr Rock

Episode 5 reminded me of that Twilight Zone episode with the all-powerful kid. It worked for me.

Mr Vegetables

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on August 06, 2022, 02:21:09 PMOther half wanted to give this a go, 100% exactly what I hate about a lot of modern UK centric productions.  Dripping with Dr Who Kook and upper Middle Class Rada workings.  I don't know why but with these things my classdar just goes wild it just feels like inert gruel for the proles.  It's good that the cast is diverse but it's hollow because they are all ultimately acting like they are from the same background.

Anyway looks like I'm in for the long haul as my other half whilst not completely convinced is sold on trailered promise of creatures, critters and possibly seeing the leads cock at some point.  Not my thing.

I find some U.K. drama from the last ten years alienating because to me it feels like it's from a parallel Britain where things are a lot less grim than they are, but I dunno that I'd call it gruel for the proles. If anything, I'd say "I am a prole, where are all the scenes of me eating my gruel?" But I have no idea if this applies to The Sandman, which I haven't seen

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Mr Vegetables on August 06, 2022, 04:14:04 PMI find some U.K. drama from the last ten years alienating because to me it feels like it's from a parallel Britain where things are a lot less grim than they are, but I dunno that I'd call it gruel for the proles. If anything, I'd say "I am a prole, where are all the scenes of me eating my gruel?" But I have no idea if this applies to The Sandman, which I haven't seen

I've tried to articulate what I mean on this a few times over the last few years and I still can't quite quite do it.  There is something quintessentially British about it, the gruel in this sense is the limited presentation of Britishness that is on offer (I think this speaks to your alienation point).


I've seen episode one and I liked it, mostly. The narration is a lot of the problem, Dream won't shut up. The whole episode would have been much more effective if Dream was silent right up to the point he escapes, and his first word was "hello".

The narration and prologue suggest a lack of faith in the audience to work things out for themselves. A lot of the information in the voiceover/prologue would have been better delivered visually or through dialogue.

Alberon

Absolutely, it's a shame they put that prologue on.

But generally I thought episode 1 (all I've seen so far) was fine.

elliszeroed

I forget how the comics began, but I think it would have been bolder/ stronger to not have the monologue and prologue, and begin with the Burgess bloke trying to capture Death, and then have it revealed that he has captured Dream.

More mystery, more curiousity!

shoulders

Quote from: Registering to lurk on August 06, 2022, 06:12:00 PMI've seen episode one and I liked it, mostly. The narration is a lot of the problem, Dream won't shut up. The whole episode would have been much more effective if Dream was silent right up to the point he escapes, and his first word was "hello".

The narration and prologue suggest a lack of faith in the audience to work things out for themselves. A lot of the information in the voiceover/prologue would have been better delivered visually or through dialogue.

Other than the narrator's slightly annoying tone that wasn't the problem, at least for me.

brat-sampson

I'm not that familiar with the comics really, vaguely remember having read the first few probably over a decade ago, but 6 eps in and I've been really enjoying this overall. It's jumping about between episodic vignettes as part of a larger story (he loses his stuff, then spends an episode getting each back, then episode 6) with some recurring characters, but overall I like the dreamlike look of it all, the stories they're telling and the acting they're doing it with.

Thewlis is a clear highlight, the episode with him as the focus was nuts. Fascinated to see what the wider public thinks as it's a pretty bizarre structure by modern TV standards, but I'll definitely finish it out and at the moment would look forward to a second series.