Has Anyone Been Successfully Cancelled?

[Sgt. Duckie]

All of the above should be in a televised celebrity big brother jungle house on an island some where

[pcsjwgm]

Ward Churchill, Steven Salaita, Norman Finkelstein, Emily Wilder, Bahia Amawi, David Miller

[jobotic]

If I told a customer she was gagging for a rape and was subsequently fired would I have been cancelled?

If not how come Dapper Laughs is?

[Pink Gregory]

Did we have a comparable term before 'cancelled'? 'Disgraced'?

THREE IN A BED DRUGS SHAME

[lazyhour]

Likewise why is cancelling having to have "something done" to you? What does done *to* you even mean? If a group of people cause someone so much distress that they quit their job then why would this not be part of cancel culture? Are only people that have direct control over someones access the only people that can ever truly cancel someone - this seems to ignore the absolute main feature of being cancelled i.e. the loss of public identity

What does it matter if some gets another job? or is still successful, is cancelling permanent?  Contrapoints has written about her attempted cancelling and like Ellis self censored herself for a time.  Why does this not count as being cancelled? (I'm just asking questions here because to me these are the actual interesting elements of all of this).  Is cancelling dependent on wellbeing? Something I am very concerned with as lots of people with mental health conditions suffer from group discrimination.

Excellent questions, and obviously I don't have the answers.

"Self-censorship" is an interesting point to bring up. Don't we all do this, all of the time? Isn't it sensible for everyone in the public eye (and anyone employed by someone else) to engage in mild self-censorship *at all times*? And isn't there an inherent and understandable risk of blowback if you *don't* self-censor? I've watched what I said in every job I've ever had. It's just not a new phenomenon.

I think this thread demonstrates that there isn't a clear meaning to being 'cancelled'. With that on mind, is there any use to the term?

[TrenterPercenter]

A person who was known as former a target of harassment accused him of being abusive during a relationship and he killed himself. Some of the reactions afterwards weren't what you'd call tasteful and there was a lot of paranoia around people who might have the "wrong" opinion about it, often people who hadn't said a word on the topic other than RIP. Grisly business and not a community I'm a part of so I don't want to go further. But the "that" is how much of it negativity revolved around things that were entirely preemptive, about what could or should be said and related tea leaf reading.

Sorry this is my brain we are dealing with here so apologies.

Someone who was a former target of harassment? from the person that killed themselves? But they were in a relationship with them?

Was the claim of abuse founded? Not that killing yourself isn't an extreme response but it seems to the be the key thing here (we can't expect victims of abuse to not out their abusers but how they do it and whether it is vexatious or not should be obviously be considered).

[Famous Mortimer]

There are very many "soft" cancellations in academia where a career is quietly ended due to someone having unpopular views

Unpopular, or flying in the face of all current knowledge / thought, intellectually dishonest and potentially damaging to the generations of students who'll be taught by said person?

[TrenterPercenter]

"Self-censorship" is an interesting point to bring up. Don't we all do this, all of the time? Isn't it sensible for everyone in the public eye (and anyone employed by someone else) to engage in mild self-censorship *at all times*? And isn't there an inherent and understandable risk of blowback if you *don't* self-censor? I've watched what I said in every job I've ever had. It's just not a new phenomenon.

Not a new phenomenon at all, but something that is enhanced by mass publishing and online group participation.  Self-censorship and the idea of freedom of speech have been problematic in their all or nothing approach but really we want to facilitate as much freedom of speech and reduce self censorship as much as possible without what would cause a reasonable amount of harm to others.

There are no absolutes here yet there are people on both sides of this argument that have no interest in finding reasonable solutions to these problems.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

Unpopular, or flying in the face of all current knowledge / thought, intellectually dishonest and potentially damaging to the generations of students who'll be taught by said person?

Trivial infighting that wouldn't even seem controversial to someone outside of the argument. Nothing exciting or politically intriguing at all.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

Sorry this is my brain we are dealing with here so apologies.

Someone who was a former target of harassment?

It was Zoe Quinn. She made a credible claim of abuse against a former partner who had a history of mental illness, who then killed himself almost immediately. He was partly responsible for Night In The Woods, which was a huge deal in online queer communities and a banner title for socialist videogames.

[jobotic]

Andy Grey and Richard Keys? I'm sure they're doing just fine in Qatar or wherever it is they ply their trade now, but they're permanently black balled from working here on any credible outlets. See also: Ron Atkinson.

All three are probably pretty early examples of being cancelled as we know it today, I guess?

Are they black balled? Are credible outlets not allowed to hire them or do they just not want to because they're shit as well as sexist pricks?

What about the blacklists in the construction trade, still going on in the 2010s? The Shrewsbury 24? These aren't cancellations though?

[TrenterPercenter]

It was Zoe Quinn. She made a credible claim of abuse against a former partner who had a history of mental illness, who then killed himself almost immediately. He was partly responsible for Night In The Woods, which was a huge deal in online queer communities and a banner title for socialist videogames.

Zoe Quinn (no idea) credible claim (OK understand) history of mental illness (relevant) killed himself immediately (also relevant) Night in the Woods, online queer communities, socialist video games (no idea).

Hard to understand what went on without a lot more context but I think it is leading towards the idea that he killed himself to get back at his former partner.

It is not uncommon for suicide to be used as a weapon, usually more successfully deployed by men trying to get back at their partner (you leave me and I'll make sure you never forget me - also sometimes murdering children in the process) this doesn't mean men are the most vindictive when it comes to relationship breakdown but men, due to patriarchal beliefs around men tend to gravitate to more violent and extreme ways of expressing emotions (patriarchal societies reject, ignore and belittle male emotional responses promoting extreme actions).

There are some really interesting things here about gender roles and power; we saw some of this in the Depp trial with his actions being excused by Heard's, as a tacit nod to disparities between the sexes.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

Cancel culture must be real after all because I've never heard of about 90% of these people

[Des Wigwam]

Michael Richards?


[Edit - 38 new replies since I last refreshed the page. Not checking if he's been mentioned yet]

[Famous Mortimer]

Looks like he wasn't getting hired much before his caught-on-camera moment anyway, outside of Seinfeld-associated things he's barely acted this millennium. Cancelled or just shite?

[wrec]

As it was Richards had the problem of being identified with Kramer. After doing small parts in mediocre sitcoms there's probably a point where you say fuck it and semi-retire and the "incident" probably accelerated that. Jason Alexander has other stuff going on but his attempt at post-Seinfeld sitcom career was also grim.

Always seemed to me that Richards was genuinely penitent and troubled by the situation and attempted to address it properly. Way different to Louis who was a premeditated serial offender, had people threatened into silence and did a perfunctory "my bad" before returning to make jokes about PC gone mad.

[buttgammon]

Any time I've seen Richards in anything since the incident, he's given the impression of being mega-therapised, as if it was some kind of emotional watershed for him.

[TrenterPercenter]

Worth revisiting this and remembering how surreal it was at the time and how even more surreal it is now looking back.  The audience on the Letterman show laughing is so bizarre.

[Enzo]

Armie Hammer went from Oscar winning films to selling timeshares in the Cayman Islands remarkably quickly.

[lipsink]

I don't get why Rory McGrath was tolerated for so long.

A really horrific blister of a man.

On a side note didn't Harry Hill used to have a running joke about slagging off McGrath on his Channel 4 show every week? He seemed to genuinely hate the man. I dunno if there was some animosity between the 2?

[Zetetic]

Hard to understand what went on without a lot more context

This is probably where the post should have stopped, if there absolutely had to be a post.

[TrenterPercenter]

This is probably where the post should have stopped.

Still sniping I see

[Video Game Fan 2000]

I reckon no one in comedy was more secure in his own genius than pre-INCIDENT Michael Richards, he made Dave Chappelle look like Victoria Wood and Michael Palin combined. I saw a doc about American sketch comedy a while back that had a bunch of people from Fridays on it, and they were all very modest and slightly embarrased by it with a "oh the things we do at the start of our careers!" tone throughout, aside from Michael Richards who was Lenny Bruce and Andy Kaufman combined and stunning people left and right with his wild ideas. Kramer is funny as shit but the explanation for him vanishing isn't so much the INCIDENT but the fact that he thought he was the greatest comedian alive when he was just a funny guy who happened to have brilliant part written for him, and he didn't want to work with another Larry David style writer or partner afterwards because he didn't think he needed it. A+ comedy face though, one of the very best. Can't fault his face. Well, aside from his mouth now maybe.

Listening to him being interviewed or other Seinfeld cast members talking about him prepping for Kramer was always incredibly painful. In that group interview, there's a pause after Julia Louie Dreyfus saying the cast knew not to approach Richards when he was getting in character that made me think... fucking hell.

Really think he thought his "bit" during the INCIDENT would be received as yet another example of his subversive genius at first, and you can kind of see him realise he's dug himself him in too deep right at the end.

[dontpaintyourteeth]

He'll always be Stanley Spadowski to me

[MrMealDeal]

Packed it all in and went to work in insurance iirc.

He gave up on showbusiness and moved back to Stoke after he was replaced on They Think It's All Over by Lee Mack in 2005. Some friends back home ran a mortgage brokers and offered him a job there. He only did that for a year though as he couldn't get used to the daily grind of normal work. After that he became a househusband, while still doing the occasional TV or radio guest spots. He got back into presenting in 2008 for the ITV quiz show Duel, and the BBC2 quiz show Breakaway in 2012, but then returned to semi-retirement.

He still pops up on the radio as a guest presenter and TV on things like Pointless Celebrities and Antiques Road Trip every so often, he's even done some acting - he played a recurring character in C4's social workers comedy Damned between 2016-2018, and the odd epiosde of things like Midsomer Murders.

I remember there was a short-lived BBC game show - around 2017 maybe - that was a cross between Through the Keyhole and Come Dine With Me where, iirc, a celebrity cooked a meal in their house and, based on the decor and the dish, the panel had to guess whose house it was. Anyway, one of the cooks was Nick Hancock and the panel, who were all about 5 when They Think It's All Over was on TV, all had to pretend they knew who he was.

[TrenterPercenter]

Really think he thought his "bit" during the INCIDENT would be received as yet another example of his subversive genius at first, and you can kind of see him realise he's dug himself him in too deep right at the end.

I've heard him say how he was lost in his act, something about not practicing it and therefore this somehow putting him at risk of losing it.  All of us can experience bizarre, dark and extreme thoughts and these increase during times of stress. 

When I was working in brain injury clinics it was very common for some patients to say extreme things and then instantly regret saying them, basically a like a tic, extreme views seem to perpetuate because exactly you are not meant to have them (just like you are not meant think about throwing yourself off a building but you are drawn to thinking about it).  Possible that it happened to him I guess (doesn't need actual damage to the brain for this to happen temporarily).

[Chollis]

Roseanne? (her revived show was literally cancelled after her comments)

[Jockice]

5. People who posted something mildly offensive 15 years ago and some muckraking twits dug deep to find it and really you should forget about it rather than ruin someone's life over some words they wrote when they were a kid.

Jared O'Mara. I don't know the bloke and have heard various tales about him but isn't it strange how one of the very few disabled MPs who happens to have taken the  former deputy Prime Minister's seat should have his internet history so exhaustively searched to find a few slightly dubious comments on messageboards used by practically nobody at the time? And that the media should take such an interest. Weird.

Why, it's almost as if they didn't want the likes of him in parliament. How dare he get more votes than a fine upstanding citizen like Nick Clegg?

[curiousoranges]

Louis CK's "cancellation" was one of the least successful. He won a Grammy a few months ago.

[oggyraiding]

Just remembered Michael Barrymore was more or less cancelled. He had some post-body in the pool TV appearances, like Celebrity Big Brother, Come Dine With Me, Friday Night Project (with now cancelled JLC). But he never reached the heights of his heyday as king of light entertainment.