Edinburgh Fringe: Jerry Sadowitz show cancelled by venue bosses

[Josef K]

I've seen Sadowitz a few times but to be quite honest if person of colour asked me to explain why I think it's fine for him to say p**i I'd probably struggle

[Scrapey Fish]

said the economy was awful because it is run by 'blacks and women'.

I mean, this is obviously a joke right?!

[sevendaughters]

I've seen Sadowitz a few times but to be quite honest if person of colour asked me to explain why I think it's fine for him to say p**i I'd probably struggle

because he was born in India?

[iamcoop]

I mean, this is obviously a joke right?!

Yes.

[sevendaughters]

I get what you're saying there Josef K (love your work by the way, both as band and defendant) but one of the great mysteries of humour is that something is happening between your mind and the performer that can't be easily explained to a mystified onlooker or third party. Obviously this is at the extreme end of this equation because it might look like (and I concede it might actually be) racism being enjoyed by fellow whites, so it requires a bit of an intellectual leap to say 'well I know it isn't racist or at least why it has some validity because I'm not racist and I enjoyed it'. It's complicated.

Pleasance well within their rights to not put him on again, spirit of the Fringe be damned, that anarchic spirit of yore is now the Busted version in 2022.

[thenoise]

Has it been confirmed that he flashed a woman in the audience? I think it becomes impossible to defend his act on the basis that he wields no power if he's doing that.

It seems pretty unlikely, unless she was a plant, that the exposure was personal. It's been a few years since I saw Jerry but I remember noting that, compared to other "shock" comedians, none of his vitriol was aimed personally at members of the audience. Even those that shouted out and heckled, it would be some nonsense counterattack or some silliness more often than not, rather than abuse on the level of Carr/Boyle.

More likely he waggled his dick around as part of the act and his complainers added that there was a woman in the room to add weight to how jolly offensive it was.

I'd like to know the context around the Rishi racism and the stuff about women and blacks ruined the economy part. I think it likely that in context there was some ironic justification or punchline to it. I've absolutely no doubt that he did say it though, and I've heard him say worse.

Hoping somebody here pipes up who went?...

[iamcoop]

Either way he's probably fucked now. Either loads of other venues refuse to put him on and he loses the majority of what little work he has anyway or he has a surge of popularity with the GB News lot. I think the second scenario would be the one he'd despise the most.

[bushwick]

He reminds me of R Crumb in a lot of ways, totally indefensible self hating world loathing OTT purging of the male id, not just "hurrrr spasmos are funny" Gervais Carr stuff but the most absolutely horrible stuff you might think at your absolute lowest point, shoved in the audience's face, by an artist who you're not supposed to identify with.  Whether it has value or is "good" or whatnot who knows, but when JS goes on insane racial tirades it reminds me of Crumb's "When The Goddamn xxxxx Take Over America" strips. The audience is meant to recognise this stuff is bonkers and completely unacceptable but also shiver a bit because they have some deep uncomfortable recognition going on, confronted by everyday prejudices taken to their logical conclusion.

[Mobbd]

Interesting:

https://twitter.com/JosieLong/status/1558795055883771904?t=oAGwLINAGTHaut_WZw5iXg&s=19

I think he was at The Stand in 2019.

Also I remember in 2019 my extra show followed his- the room was like a morgue and the tech told me his show was just unironic racism and islamophobia and that that venue would never book him again.

You're right, that is interesting.

I do wonder if it's time now just to move on from him, that his act doesn't make sense anymore. I've always liked him but I think the context might have shifted to his detriment.

In addition to Josie evidently not being up for his antics, Stewart Lee's newsletter recommendation to see Jerry was tempered with:

Sadowitz's schtick made conceptual sense when we all lived in a supposed liberal consensus, but now we are in the foothills of Phil MacIntyre-promoted fascism-lite will it read differently? He is one of the great stand-ups but we are in a different world to the one that gave us the classic '80s opening line, "Nelson Mandela! What a cunt!"

Citing Josie and Stew here as people who obviously have their finger on the pulse of things and grew from a similar alternative comedy cultural leaf litter (albiet later) to Jerry and will know him personally to some extent.

I really, really hope he doesn't end up lost to the free speech culture war types.

[Shit Good Nose]

The hypocrisy in this thread is one of the reasons I don't post on CaB anymore.

Some of us CaBbers have seen him live where he has literally said with 100% sincerity "these are not jokes, this is what I actually think" after endless racist (and humourless joke-free) rants about Muslims and Chinese.

I'm glad this has finally happened because he's had a bewildering pass and wave-through for far too long, and I'm enjoying the CaB apologists trying desperately to differentiate him from Davidson and Chubby Brown (hint - he's worse than both of them).

[g0m]

"I was alright with him until he crossed my own personal line of acceptable/not acceptable"

isn't that like... normal human reaction. how is saying that patronising

[sevendaughters]

he has literally said with 100% sincerity "these are not jokes, this is what I actually think" after endless racist (and humourless joke-free) rants about Muslims and Chinese.

Can this be taken at face value? Genuine question.

[Mobbd]

I'd like to know the context around the Rishi racism and the stuff about women and blacks ruined the economy part. I think it likely that in context there was some ironic justification or punchline to it.

I wasn't there but it sounds like the sort of thing he'd say just to get a rise. There wouldn't be much context beyond "I'm Jerry Sadowitz and I'm you're worst nightmare."

One joke I remember from when I saw him was that one of his magic wands was small and yellow and he described it as his Chinese wand and, lest there be any confusion as to why, "Because is is SMALL and because it is YELLA" with a definitive nod of the head. He just says racist shit because he's not supposed to and because his character is like that.

[thenoise]

This is genuinely a case where cancelling a comedians's shows threatens their livelihood isn't it? Unlike Gervais and Chappelle who get paid millions by Netflix to complain about being 'cancelled', I don't think Sadowitz has any other income (working as a comedian at least).

If you managed to navigate his website, he will scrawl some swears on a greetings card or T-shirt, or send you a Cameo-style video Jimmy Savile impression. He also publishes a magic magazine that he refuses to sell to almost everyone but his closest friends.

I don't think he works in that magic shop in London any more.

[Shit Good Nose]

Can this be taken at face value? Genuine question.

Yes, zero context.  Other CaBbers - who, like me, are long-term Sadowitz doubters - will confirm.

[iamcoop]

You're right, that is interesting.

I do wonder if it's time now just to move on from him, that his act doesn't make sense anymore. I've always liked him but I think the context might have shifted to his detriment.

In addition to Josie evidently not being up for his antics, Stewart Lee's newsletter recommendation to see Jerry was tempered with:

Citing Josie and Stew here as people who obviously have their finger on the pulse of things and grew from a similar alternative comedy cultural leaf litter (albiet later) to Jerry and will know him personally to some extent.

I really, really hope he doesn't end up lost to the free speech culture war types.

You made some excellent points there.

One thing I would say about the culture war thing is that you'll never, ever see Jerry clapping like a fucking seal on Andrew Doyle's show.

[scarecrow]

Am totally unfamiliar with Sadowitz and his work. Maybe in context it's utterly hilarious. Maybe whoever complained is just a stupid uptight dingbat who foolishly came to see a comedian without googling his body of work first. But folks, a venue telling a performer "we don't want you back for a second night" is not censorship. If there was an industry-wide ban and nobody would book him we could talk. (But seemingly that isn't the case as he's posted his tour dates on Twitter.) I mean, are clubs and venues obliged to let anybody do and say what they want, just because they're on a stage? And to let them come back for their second show no matter how badly the first one was received?

I think this is a silly point. The Fringe is a total racket - certainly the big four venues gouge their performers. For a performer to pay up a substantial sum of money for venue hire, travel and accommodation at an open access arts festival, only to have the plug pulled on them is unjustifiable, I think. It's weird to see the Pleasance take a moral stand against a DIY heritage act as it helps plunge most of its roster into debt.

[sevendaughters]

Been scrabbling around for some context. Here's a bit from a Graun interview a few years ago:

You couldn't dismiss Sadowitz's own material as pap, but it inevitably divides crowds. Walkouts are common, as people decide they find the no-holds-barred misanthropy too much. It's easy to imagine the artist-provocateur rubbing his hands in glee every time he upsets the sensibilities of the bourgeoisie, but this isn't the case. "As a Scotsman and a Jew, I know what it is to pay money to see a show. If someone's taken the trouble to pay to see you and they leave upset, then I'm not happy about that. Ideally, I want them to enjoy what I do. They don't have to agree with it." He pauses, then adds ferociously: "I don't want them to agree with it! If they did, they'd feel as screwed up as I do."

He was once punched by an audience member at the Montreal comedy festival, after he came on stage with the words: "Hello moose-fuckers. You know what I hate about this country? Half of you speak French and the other half let them." He has come in for the occasional attack from the critics, too: for every commentator willing to acclaim him a genius, there is another ready to accuse him of pandering to the prejudiced.

Sadowitz is aware of the contradiction. "I've always said to myself, if I ever went on stage and looked out and the audience was a massive group of fascists, making me out to be the figurehead of the English Defence League, then I would not want to do it any more." At the same time, he says, "there is something healthy about anybody getting their darkness out in a theatre rather than going out in the street and robbing someone or throwing a bottle." He doesn't believe in censoring comedy. "Who's to deny anybody their comedy? You can't say that one person's strand of comedy is OK to laugh at, but this person's isn't. There's a great quote that Steve Martin said when he was doing standup, 'Comedy is not pretty.'"

We fall into discussing Ricky Gervais's recent and widely decried use of the word "mong" on Twitter. In fact, it's Sadowitz who brings it up. While he isn't a fan of Gervais ("He does something that's terrible, which is to take brutal subject matter and make it cosy for a large audience"), he will defend his use of the word. "One of the reasons I do what I do in my show is because there is no line to be drawn. So you might as well go all out, because you can use the word idiot, and that'll be offensive to someone who's an idiot. You can use the word wanker – that's offensive to me, I'm a wanker! It's maybe the spirit behind what you say – but even then, I will make allowances for any comic."

I know none of this lessens the conversation at hand, but I dispute that he's 'worse' than wifebeater Davidson because he genuinely does consider the impact of his words.

[Shit Good Nose]

I know none of this lessens the conversation at hand, but I dispute that he's 'worse' than wifebeater Davidson because he genuinely does consider the impact of his words.

I don't know if this was aimed at me, but just for the avoidance of doubt, I'm specifically talking about the comedy, not the personal lives outside.

[BigotsShouldWheest]

The hypocrisy in this thread is one of the reasons I don't post on CaB anymore.

Some of us CaBbers have seen him live where he has literally said with 100% sincerity "these are not jokes, this is what I actually think" after endless racist (and humourless joke-free) rants about Muslims and Chinese.

I'm glad this has finally happened because he's had a bewildering pass and wave-through for far too long, and I'm enjoying the CaB apologists trying desperately to differentiate him from Davidson and Chubby Brown (hint - he's worse than both of them).

Even if you're completely wrong and Sadowitz has never said any of that... the world as a whole has completely changed since his early days; one of the things that kept Sadowitz acceptable in the past was that he was operating within different boundaries, and he could be seen to be playing with those boundaries. All the acceptable liberal voices championed him as a free thinking iconoclast back then, and we all agreed he can't seriously mean it... because there was no risk, it seemed, this would ever be seen as normal.

Today, you have people armed to the teeth trying to assault FBI offices because they're too liberal. The nationalistic, outright fascist right is ascendant. And Glinner is there also. They're all jumping on content like this and not just using it to try and normalise those out of bounds beliefs, but directly weaponize it to hurt decent, innocent people. And we're maybe one event from starting the downward spiral into the 1930s again.

What Sadowitz is doing then is a luxury few genuinely aware people would consider worth risking here and now; I notice a lot of "It would be a woman shocked at seeing a penis", but then women today don't have the luxury in a post-abortion ban world to consider themselves truly safe from the push of the Christian Fascists any more; I think a bit of understanding of how sensitive they are to certain kinds of jokes isn't being "woke", its not "cancel culture", its just being a decent person and realising society as a whole is going off the rails, and a lot of people are being genuinely damaged by this kind of behaviour and thinking, and its not just harmless fun any more.

(Edited to add, I missed the immediately prior post where Stewart Lee makes the exact same point.)

[sevendaughters]

I don't know if this was aimed at me, but just for the avoidance of doubt, I'm specifically talking about the comedy, not the personal lives outside.

I don't think you can isolate components like that in stand-up comedy, one act is clearly an extension of their actual opinions and the other isn't.

[Mobbd]

Very good digging, sevendaughters. Thanks for that. If nothing else this shows how considered Jerry's act is/was.

As I say, I've always loved him but as per my previous post I do wonder if it's not time to retire the schtick.

[Famous Mortimer]

I didn't tell anyone to click fuck all.

Read some history about theatre censorship in this country.

[sevendaughters]

As I say, I've always loved him but as per my previous post I do wonder if it's not time to retire the schtick.

I kind of agree - I love his magic and part of the reason I haven't been is because I wouldn't want to sit through a tirade (even if it were artistically justifiable) because it's not really my thing anymore, and I've always preferred the idea of him as this devilish comedic anti-conscience to the reality of his sets. But I think there has to be a way of critiquing consensus without falling into the Andrew Doyle grifting trap. But also maybe his day has gone and he's too far down this road now to row back.

[somersetchris]

Some of us CaBbers have seen him live where he has literally said with 100% sincerity "these are not jokes, this is what I actually think" after endless racist (and humourless joke-free) rants about Muslims and Chinese.

How do you know this? You're assuming what his personal beliefs are, despite his comments to the contrary. If a comedian says to you 'this is 100% what I believe', you assume that bit to be true, but not the rest? It's an act, he's an act. You might not like it and there might not be a place for it now but it IS an act. Check the interview posted just below, where he said he would give it up if he was attracting EDL audiences. He does not. He attracts virtually no-one, as mentioned I saw him play a virtually empty theatre of 30-40 ageing liberals.

When I saw him, he did something similar - he said 'You think I'm being ironic, but I believe this. Or do I? Yes, yes I do. Or do I?' If anything, this was the main part where he actually challenged the audience not to take what he said at face value. I wanted him to do more of that, to make these extreme views more pathetic and more ridiculous so that no-one could possibly agree with him, but on this case he didn't. I think I did see him on a bad night, but am unlikely to see him on a better one.

[thenoise]

... I'm enjoying the CaB apologists trying desperately to differentiate him from Davidson and Chubby Brown

The main difference for me is that I find Sadowitz for the most part very funny, and Davidson/Chubby for the most part not funny.

[iamcoop]

I really hope there's someone on here that was at the show to be a bit more illuminating.

The pull out quotes and statement from the venue make it sound like he absolutely bombed, everyone hated it and he got booed off, as opposed to it being like a normal Sadowitz show that someone retrospectively complained about.

I wonder if the person quoted in The Sun article hated his whole act, or whether it was specifically the comment about Sunak that they decided went too far?

It's a different scenario completely but it does remind me of the people that complained about Carr's (rubbish) joke about the travelling community who seemingly weren't bothered about his ten minute rape routine or fat jokes that surrounded that bit.

It just seems odd to pick out a couple of bits of Jerry's act and say they went beyond the pale. Either you think he's a racist cunt that isn't funny, you think he isn't racist and is funny or you're not fucking bothered either way and get on with your life?

[Scrapey Fish]

You're right, that is interesting.

I do wonder if it's time now just to move on from him, that his act doesn't make sense anymore. I've always liked him but I think the context might have shifted to his detriment.

In addition to Josie evidently not being up for his antics, Stewart Lee's newsletter recommendation to see Jerry was tempered with:

Citing Josie and Stew here as people who obviously have their finger on the pulse of things and grew from a similar alternative comedy cultural leaf litter (albiet later) to Jerry and will know him personally to some extent.

I really, really hope he doesn't end up lost to the free speech culture war types.

Josie makes a fair point about racial slurs but I'm not buying into the comment that a tech said it was unironic racism so it must have been. Falls a bit into the trap of the old school standards campaigners who would criticise things they've never even watched.

I have a feeling Sadowitz will very much refuse to get involved with the Comedy Unleashed crowd. He's spent this long doing his own thing without worrying about whether income takes a hit so I think he'll continue to plough his own furrow at whatever venues will take him

[Mobbd]

He should do a show called 'a new leaf' or something, the poster depicting Jerry with a halo and promising best behaviour. And then he can show us struggle. Haha. I'd see that.

[somersetchris]

I'm not familiar with Sadowitz's work but I'm aware of his reputation, and it's set me thinking.

If a venue changed its mind on hosting Jim Davidson or Roy Chubby Brown, I think most leftish people would go "yeah, fair enough".

Whereas the vibe I'm getting here is that while the culture warriors are wrong as usual, the Pleasance also made a bad call. So what makes Sadowitz different from other deliberately offensive comedians? Is it that we know he doesn't mean what he says? As the same could be said for Jimmy Carr but the consensus here seemed to be that he's a twat and he deserved the criticism he got for his joke about Romany people, for example.

Not sealioning or trying to shit stir - just interested in people's takes on it.

This has happened quite recently, Chubby Brown had a show pulled in Sheffield, I think it was. I think the consensus pretty much is, they can put it on if they want to but at the same time, no venue is obliged to put on an act they find offensive. You do not have to give Chubby Brown work if you don't want to. The venue in question I think was funded by the council, and they felt it inappropriate that the council of a multicultural city is platforming an obvious racist. I think that's completely fine. He gets the occasional cancellation, but for the most part Chubby Brown has no problem finding venues. I think Jim Davidson's issue now is that no-one wants to see him, he's cancelled tours due to lack of sales.

With Jerry Sadowitz, again he is a very extreme act which is not for most people. If venues don't want to put him on, that is their right. He has positioned himself as the most extreme comic there is, so he knows he is never going to be on Live at the Apollo. That is the career he has chosen. However, I cannot believe that any venue at Edinburgh doesn't know who Jerry Sadowitz is. That's insane. He is the same person now as he was when you booked him. By cancelling, all you have done is embolden all of the right wing cancel culture grifters who I am 100% certain Sadowitz hates.