Food tsar calls for massive reduction in meat and dairy consumption

[Fambo Number Mive]

The only way to have sustainable land use in this country, and avoid ecological breakdown, is to vastly reduce consumption of meat and dairy, according to the UK government's food tsar.

Henry Dimbleby told the Guardian that although asking the public to eat less meat – supported by a mix of incentives and penalties – would be politically toxic, it was the only way to meet the country's climate and biodiversity targets.

"It's an incredibly inefficient use of land to grow crops, feed them to a ruminant or pig or chicken which then over its lifecycle converts them into a very small amount of protein for us to eat," he said.

Currently, 85% of agricultural land in England is used for pasture for grazing animals such as cows or to grow food which is then fed to livestock. Dimbleby, the Leon restaurant chain co-founder and a respected voice in Conservative circles, believes a 30% meat reduction over 10 years is required for land to be used sustainably in England. Others go much further: Greenpeace, for example, say we must reduce our meat intake by 70%.

"If we fail on this," Dimbleby said, "we will fail to meet our biodiversity or climate goals in this country. We also have a huge opportunity to show thought leadership worldwide, and show them that this can be done, that we can farm sustainably and still feed people."...

As Dimbleby says, this will be a difficult sell to the public. He thinks ideas like a meat tax (not a meatus tax) would be impossible to sell, and instead says a huge cultural shift is needed for people to feel like they need to eat meat so often.

Personally, I eat meat very rarely (mostly fish) and have switched to oat milk. However, when I do eat meat I have to admit I do enjoy the taste of it. I also miss cheese.

I don't know how we wean people off meat and dairy - it's clear there will be a lot of resistance from farmers and gammons given how even such a small gesture as Oxford City Council only serving vegan meals at certain meetings lead to protests by local farmers, Clarkson and the like.

I think one thing we need to tackle is rural poverty and provide more alternatives to meat and dairy farming jobs in rural areas. We also need to consider what we would do with the cattle of people who wanted to give up meat farming (yes I know the technical term is not meat farming).

It's good Dimbleby is speaking out even if his 30% proposal doesn't go far enough for organisations like Greenpeace.

Are you switching to vegetarian food, getting rid of cheese and drinking non-dairy milk or are you still a regular meat and dairy eater?

Is there much hope in getting the population to make the switch given that organisations like GB News and the Daily Mail will be pumping out propaganda to try to get people to keep eating meat and dairy?

[Sebastian Cobb]

There's evidence of successful social engineering in the past of this so in that regard I think it can be done if people don't listen to industries.

An example would be that roast chicken wasn't all that common until after the second world war, but there was a big government campaign to push it, because it was far more feasible to get chicken supplies up versus cows.

The current calls don't exactly seem in step with the mad trade agreements that appear to want to flood the market with lamb from New Zealand at the expense of British agriculture/grazing though, for no real benefit to anyone though.

[Pink Gregory]

For context : I vegan

It's not untrue what he says, but instensive arable farming has it's own issues with monocultures, fertiliser runoff, the need for energy to collect, plough, apply fertilisers or pesticides; poor harvests are more of an issue and increasingly frequent due to long periods of drought, cold or flooding.

As always you'd need to have an integrated approach which involves retraining of half of the agricultural workforce and careful land management, even redistribution.  It'd be worth doing but half solutions would be damaging in their own ways. 

Can grazing land even be repurposed efficiently as arable land without a massive energy investment?  Or would it be better to re-wild that land for biodiversity purposes?

How much could we increase efficiency of already existing land, and crucially reduce food waste as demand increases.  We probably can't do it within a capitalist framework but that's true anywhere.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

I've thought about going veg(etari)an for ages, but never quite manage to take the plunge. It's a bit difficult in my house, because of my housemate's dietary requirements, but I'm by myself this week and still ended up buying a steak that was on the cheap shelves in Tesco.

It's not as if I don't like the cuisine. I have vegan friends and the food they make is top notch. They don't usually bother with meat substitutes, but I find those perfectly palatable. I quit tea and coffee a while back, so I don't bother with milk any more, but I would miss cheese - the vegan alternatives are rubbish, especially on pizza, or they were last time I tried.

I've eaten insects and they were perfectly nice, as long as they had something to offset the dryness.

As for society? No chance.

[Pink Gregory]

why do we have government advisors names after the people that the bolsheviks shot in a basement

almost like they're taunting us

[chip]

Best I can do is meat maybe once, twice a week. I'll be keeping cheese, thanks.

Might start to give other milks a whirl, but aren't they all prohibitively expensive? That's what I always thought. Is cow milk the costliest one now?

[shoulders]

The Tsarina and I no longer enjoy cordial relations.

[shoulders]

Best I can do is meat maybe once, twice a week. I'll be keeping cheese, thanks.

Might start to give other milks a whirl, but aren't they all prohibitively expensive? That's what I always thought. Is cow milk the costliest one now?

No, you can get soya or oat milk* for around 90p / 750ml.


*Legally required to call it Drink

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Oats don't have teats.

[Pink Gregory]

Best I can do is meat maybe once, twice a week. I'll be keeping cheese, thanks.

Might start to give other milks a whirl, but aren't they all prohibitively expensive? That's what I always thought. Is cow milk the costliest one now?

Don't bother with Oatly or the ones with the expensive branding and it's all about the same (if supermarket own brand isn't there Alpro is still at an okay price point), plus it's all UHT so you can stock it up, I go a get a tray of the Oat milk from Aldi every month or so and they're 85p each.  Depends how much you use it I guess, you get through it if you're a cereal fiend like I am.

[seepage]

I'd not miss meat except duck. Less bothered about cheese than I used to be. Recently I was addicted to Ashcombe [a tastier version of Morbier] but the last one hadn't been aged enough which put me off.

Might try soya or oat drink now that they've changed Carte Noir and L'OR coffees for the worse [what's the least rubbish instant coffee?]

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Might try soya or oat drink now that they've changed Carte Noir and L'OR coffees for the worse [what's the least rubbish instant coffee?]

I was but a coffee novice, but this is pretty nice.

[superthunderstingcar]

I'm not vegetarian but my partner is, so I can happily go for a week or more without eating any meat.

Meat substitutes have come a long way in the last 20 years, which seems to be where popular culture's view of them is still stuck. I will sing the praises of vegan sausage rolls, in particular, as being better than the real thing, because you don't encounter the occasional disgusting bit of gristle (fair play to you if that's the thing you like about sausage rolls). Most other forms of fake meat are getting there, except perhaps for bacon, which I still enjoy from time to time.

Dairy is another matter. If I was to cut down on it I would need to educate myself on the alternatives, see which fake-milks work in tea or on cereal, etc. I tried a couple a while ago but they were horrible, and I'd take UHT cow's milk over soya milk every time.

Supermarkets don't make it easy for vegetarians, though, and if they did I reckon it would help the public make the change much more easily. Massive aisles of meat products, vs one tiny shelf of vegetarian/vegan substitutes, and loads of ready meals that contain chicken, hardly any that are meat free.

This is without even my mentioning the price - meat alternatives are almost always more expensive than the real thing. I leave it to the reader to draw their own conclusions on why this would hinder people making the switch.

That's my experience - maybe that's just the case in my part of the country? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, I know you will.

[Kankurette]

I'm pescatarian. Stopped eating meat in 2004 and don't miss it (the gristle is one reason why I gave it up, it made me gag). Quorn is my meat substitute of choice as it's pretty versatile, also Cauldron marinaded tofu. I like Oatly because of the taste, but my parents hate it so if they come over, I have to get cow juice in for them. Unfortunately, I also like cheese and vegan cheese is...not great.

[Pink Gregory]

Everyone who's wandering about milk alternatives.

Oat.  Don't waste your time with anything else. 

Never looked back on cheese.  I'm not going to pretend that Violife mature or Applewood smoked is anywhere near the real thing but you have to appreciate how much better they are than what used to be available.  The real primo shit is the cultured stuff that you might find at a vegan fair or even one you have to order with an ice pack and everything, but that's very much occasion cheese.

It also introduced me to the idea of pizza marinara.

[Fambo Number Mive]

I used to love eating cheess but always ate too much of it each day as it tastes so nice. I ended up giving up cheese a year or so ago, more for health reasons than for environmental reasons.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

Do any of the vegan cheese-style food products melt properly yet, or do they still turn into a puddle of oil? That was the thing that really put me off them, since pizza is my preferred cheese delivery medium. They were passable in solid form, albeit not much better than that plastic American burger cheese.

[Emma Raducanu]

One of the highlights of my week is to head to my favourite alternative vegan hippy free-for-all cafe and order a latte with coconut milk so I'm doing my bit.

[Epic Bisto]

Vegan for a year and liking it very much thank you.  Vegan cheese is shite though - nutritional yeast is what you need instead, sprinkle a touch on your salad and it's much better.

[Emma Raducanu]

Y' tried this Bisto?



We use it in a mushroom risotto and it is excellent. On it's own, it stinks like the devils arsehole but it serves its purpose brilliantly.

[Epic Bisto]

Ooh, I might give that a shot (I love a nice risotto). Thanks for the recommendation.  Their blue cheese was alright but a bit too mild.

[Jasha]

I ended up giving up cheese a year or so ago, more for health reasons than for environmental reasons.

Think a lot of people will be giving up meat soon not for health or environmental but for financial reasons

[seepage]

I was but a coffee novice, but this is pretty nice.

Thanks, I'll give that a try.

Just had some queso azul de Galicia and some Mahon and now I'm back on the cheese, sorry :(

[McDead]

*

[Alberon]

Mrs Alberon went vegetarian for ethical reasons a few years ago.

I've tried the meat substitutes with her and really only Quorn works as a reasonable chicken substitute.

Short of a massive economic shock there seems little chance to wean us off meat.

Vat grown meat might be an alternative, but how much energy that would take to grow versus current farming methods I don't know.

[Sherringford Hovis]

Cunts won't even mask up or get vaccinated to save themselves. I envy the positivity of anyone who thinks that yer average cunt in the street is gonna swap steak for seitan.

Go vegan to 'own the libs' might be effective reverse-psychology, but I'm not sure big broccoli or trillionaire tofu has the falafels to lobby effectively.

[shoulders]

It's generational, the shelves of vegan options in major supermarkets didn't use to exist. Vegan labelling,  let along vegan options on menus didn't use to exist. These have come to prominence pretty quickly and the pace of growth is still accelerating.

Purely from the fact these products exist primarily to make some cunts rich, it would seem to go against the notion that people aren't going to change.

I know most of my friends have either gone vegetarian or vegan,  tried to,  or actively  reduced meat eating (as I have).

I suspect it may be more difficult to get the older generation to change their habits but there's a wave pushing through the generations. In 10 years time I wouldn't be surprised to find the vegan meat substitute section in my local supermarket 5 times the size.

What's interesting in the US is that  a far higher % of African Americans are vegan,  bucking both race and class stereotypes.

[confettiinmyhair]

I find gradual swapping out helps to reduce meat and plant the seed for older relatives. Vegan ice cream or vegan cakes instead of using dairy for snacks and desserts. Veg lasagne or curry instead of using meats. Soy milk in all my coffees during the week. Gradual reductions can be appealing and when you share these with others then it introduces that taste and sweetness doesn't have to be sacrificed.

[Paul Calf]

I've reduced my meat intake massively over the last 10 years, partly due to my wife's having re-embraced the veggie way about five years ago. I don't miss it; in fact I feel better for not guzzling meat at every meal.

We know what the solution to this will be: policies to make meat really expensive so the proletariat can't afford it. That way, we get the reduction in consumption but it doesn't bother the wealthy.

See also: massive tobacco tax hikes, minimum alcohol pricing, VAT, dentistry, etc...

[imitationleather]

Well I've only gawn and done it. Just went and bought non-dairy milk for the first time.

I very rarely eat meat at home anyway. Can't see myself going fully v as I've never been able to stick to anything for very long, but I've been trying to cut down on my cruelty-based foods for a while now.