Rough sleeping/homeless/vagrancy situation near you

[shoulders]

What's the situation like near you?

Pre-financial crash, Leeds centre used to have areas where you'd expect to see people slumped in corners begging for loose change. Sad, not unusual. Since then it's changed to an openly scary situation I never thought back then I'd see in my life.

It developed through austerity, numbers but also the nature of it.

We have a tunnel under the station tracks I and thousands use to get to work. Every 2 months or so a new collection of flowers and cards is pinned to the wall for the next person who died down there. If you are rough sleeping and end up in there in a tent, you are shortly about to die. That's the scary truth and other than a ragtag of organisations desperately trying to plug the gap in help, the real holistic help isn't coming, because of the crisis situations people find themselves in in the first place that should never have been allowed to come about.

Today, if you assess the city centre just by the people on it, it is pretty much like Victorian times. I've seen people whose legs were pretty much rotting away openly on the street. Gangs of rough sleepers who have banded together trying to look out for one another (because no-one else will). Actual penny whistlers playing for loose change. And it now goes across the city. Each one has their turf and you will find people begging in quite unlikely locations on side streets far outside the centre. Hundreds of people. And the norms pass by seemingly trying to suppress what's ever present around then.

The Dystopia is here,  we're in it, guys. This isn't hyperbole, this is a line of ideology being followed for merciless power and profit with all the violence and callousness needed to see it through directly in front of us, without even any mask or camouflage.

One thing that's really changed, and so quickly I can't give a clear explanation of why,  is the ratio of men to women has gone from maybe 19 men to 1 woman to 12 men to every 8 women. What's happened? I understand underlying social factors but even back in the spring it wasn't like this.

[buttgammon]

In Dublin, devastatingly bad. Ireland should already be seen as a cautionary tale in what happens when government exists only to serve business, and it's a testament to the people who live there that there is any sense of society existing at all.

I work in the inner city, where there's a multitude of chronic social problems, albeit with the increasing papering-over-the-cracks of gentrification; basically, you can get good coffee but you have to wade through a sea of human misery to get there. There was a period during the lockdown when I'd returned to the office and the only other people around were crack addicts, often fighting. Things have calmed down on that front but I've seen some really grim stuff, including two men having rough sex on the street, presumably for money, while someone recorded them on his phone, laughing, goading and taunting them.

This is within a kilometre or so of one of the world's leading hubs for tax evasion, in a city where you see people queuing around the block to view a room for rent and it's not uncommon to see rental listings offering to share a tiny room or even a bed for an extortionate sum a month. There are loads of new developments but almost all of them are hotels or private (I.e. prohibitively expensive) student accommodation, both of which are destined to be filled with homeless families in the near future. It's a terrifying situation, which there is no will to solve at the political or economic level.

[oggyraiding]

In the suburb of Nottingham I live in, there's usually a few rough sleepers outside each of the two big supermarkets, and more along the high street. The numbers are likely to go up - the area has been gentified, with many houses turned into HMOs for students, and most new developments being student accomodation. Then on top of that, we're getting nicer shops and amenities. When I moved into this house (2 bed semi) 4 years ago, rent was £625. I'm being evicted due to the landlords selling off their portfolio, and if I wanted to stay in this area in a similarly sized house, I'd be paying at least £900. No wonder people are on the streets when costs are so high.

[shoulders]

In Dublin, devastatingly bad. Ireland should already be seen as a cautionary tale in what happens when government exists only to serve business, and it's a testament to the people who live there that there is any sense of society existing at all.

I work in the inner city, where there's a multitude of chronic social problems, albeit with the increasing papering-over-the-cracks of gentrification; basically, you can get good coffee but you have to wade through a sea of human misery to get there. There was a period during the lockdown when I'd returned to the office and the only other people around were crack addicts, often fighting. Things have calmed down on that front but I've seen some really grim stuff, including two men having rough sex on the street, presumably for money, while someone recorded them on his phone, laughing, goading and taunting them.

This is within a kilometre or so of one of the world's leading hubs for tax evasion, in a city where you see people queuing around the block to view a room for rent and it's not uncommon to see rental listings offering to share a tiny room or even a bed for an extortionate sum a month. There are loads of new developments but almost all of them are hotels or private (I.e. prohibitively expensive) student accommodation, both of which are destined to be filled with homeless families in the near future. It's a terrifying situation, which there is no will to solve at the political or economic level.

Although I know  a little bit about Dublin's modern social history,  I'm no resident and will never have the depth of insight about its comings and goings, but on my last two recent visits there was an almost palpable sense that the city is creaking under the stress and, but for all the tourist wonga it would implode. Not alone there. Amsterdam and Barcelona spring to mind.

But being honest and fair, if impolite, Dublin city just isn't all that great by comparison to justify the rents being demanded. I don't see the vagrancy level abroad anywhere near as bad either. So much for the socialist independence movement - or the Catholic Church.

[Paul Calf]

Amsterdam has absolutely fucked itself. They've severely restricted the coffeeshops and closed down most of the windows in De Wallen. The queues for the Anne Frank House are still long, but they're soon going to find out that people just aren't that keen to look at canal houses in the pouring rain and pay 8 Euros for a tiny glass of cooking lager that's 60% foam.

[Paul Calf]

"It seals in the freshness".

Yeah, go fuck yourself you vrekkig bastard.

[madhair60]

The queues for the Anne Frank House are still long,

and then they find out they're not allowed to live there! for fuck's sake, she's almost eighty years gassed!

[buttgammon]

Although I know  a little bit about Dublin's modern social history,  I'm no resident and will never have the depth of insight about its comings and goings, but on my last two recent visits there was an almost palpable sense that the city is creaking under the stress and, but for all the tourist wonga it would implode. Not alone there. Amsterdam and Barcelona spring to mind.

But being honest and fair, if impolite, Dublin city just isn't all that great by comparison to justify the rents being demanded. I don't see the vagrancy level abroad anywhere near as bad either. So much for the socialist independence movement - or the Catholic Church.

This is how I look at it. I've lived here for seven years and frankly, if I had to pay stupidly high rent to live somewhere, there are plenty of cities I'd rather live in. My partner and I have a good deal with good prospects out of sheer luck and because of the generosity of her family but without that, I doubt we'd be sticking around.

There is an increasing resentment towards tourism here. The counterargument is always that it creates jobs, but these are disproportionately low paid, transient jobs with no security. The city council also has a reckless and ignorant attitude to history and planning, so any interesting buildings are knocked down or abandoned and anything worth visiting can't afford to stay open, so soon enough, there will be no reason for tourists to bother coming here anyway.

Aside from the genuinely harrowing stuff I've seen, one of the grimmest sights has to be people in their work clothes, a lot of them with children, forming long queues outside soup kitchens.

[Tony Tony Tony]

I work in that London so have become largely blind to the begging population though have noticed an increase in how desperate the pleas for change seem to be. I put a lot of this down to the almost universal use of contactless cards. Very few folks seem to have 'real' money to hand these days.

However I was recently in Paris and was struck by the situation there. We stayed near the Gare du Nord which has always been an iffy area but on this visit I found it even more depressing, even intimidating. On exit from the Metro we would, without fail, be descended upon by guys looking to sell individual cigarettes and begging for change, or selling rotten fruit obviously picked from the floor. These seemed to be the fortunate ones as dark corners often held what looked like sets of rags but were actually down and outs. In some places we saw entire families living on wooden pallets as smart Parisiens strolled by.

I have little doubt that the Paris experience will be coming to a town near you soon.

[shoulders]

"It seals in the freshness".

Yeah, go fuck yourself you vrekkig bastard.

Hmm, there is a line on the glass,  you know. The UK is the only nation that sees head on beer as some kind of grave offence. Seems to be all down to our pint to brim rather than pint to line glasses everyone else uses.

In terms of beer in Amsterdam, current going rate is €3.30 for a 33cl of shit lager,  €4.75 for a 25cl of very nice beer of any strength. The lager is a false economy over there,  it is better to drink good ale slowly.

Back to talking about vagrancy though...

[sevendaughters]

In Liverpool it is fine still. I think local council services still have funds for shelter. There's a bit of an encampment at the bottom of Gradwell St that is near a particularly pertinent NHS clinic (needle exchange, sex stuff) but compared to some of the horrors I've seen in Manchester and Sheffield, normal. It was worse in Worcester when I lived there; no services and all the rural homeless would move toward it.

[sevendaughters]

I work in that London so have become largely blind to the begging population though have noticed an increase in how desperate the pleas for change seem to be. I put a lot of this down to the almost universal use of contactless cards. Very few folks seem to have 'real' money to hand these days.

However I was recently in Paris and was struck by the situation there. We stayed near the Gare du Nord which has always been an iffy area but on this visit I found it even more depressing, even intimidating. On exit from the Metro we would, without fail, be descended upon by guys looking to sell individual cigarettes and begging for change, or selling rotten fruit obviously picked from the floor. These seemed to be the fortunate ones as dark corners often held what looked like sets of rags but were actually down and outs. In some places we saw entire families living on wooden pallets as smart Parisiens strolled by.

I have little doubt that the Paris experience will be coming to a town near you soon.

Paris is the worst I have seen in Europe. I'm still haunted by what I saw on the peripherique. Full on towns of homeless, semi-permanent dwellings, hawkers, Bosch imagery, people going for your doors in desperation. Pales next to the shanty towns of south central LA but genuinely upsetting.

[Glebe]

Yeah it's gotten worse and worse here in Dublin over the years. Even here in the southern suburbs there's people sitting outside shops.

[Lemming]

Also from Leeds and yeah it's a hellscape, it's always been bad here but the tangible ramping up since around the start of the pandemic has been staggering. Like you, I've noticed that the prevalence of homeless people has expanded far beyond the city centre, saw a group of people sleeping at the back of a car park in Dewsbury the other day.

SITUATION VERDICT: FUCKED

[checkoutgirl]

it is pretty much like Victorian times

They probably want to go back to  middle ages with peasant farmers and poachers getting summarily hanged for killing the king's sheep. Voters, democracy, the law, due process, human rights, all these things annoy them.

[checkoutgirl]

so soon enough, there will be no reason for tourists to bother coming here anyway.

Unfortunately, like Manchester Utd, people will probably still continue to come because of the brand name.

[phes]

The Dystopia is here,  we're in it, guys. This isn't hyperbole, this is a line of ideology being followed for merciless power and profit with all the violence and callousness needed to see it through directly in front of us, without even any mask or camouflage

My local shopping area is the north end of Sheffield city centre (where the old market was) and it is a multiple deprivation fuckdown. Fags, crack, crutches, hell if you're on crutches you're doing well because the next person is unconscious on their face.

This country is washed out. I was watching Bald and Bankrupt's latest video in the UK (Yeh I dunno if the guy is a perv or not but I enjoy seeing the places he goes) and although he obviously went to run down working class areas because that is what he does, it struck me that most of the former Soviet hellscapes he visits are not much different from many of our provincial towns

[kittens]

not a problem here in Bristol. i had a word and sorted it out

[Kankurette]

Manchester is very similar to Leeds. There have always been homeless people, but in recent years it's gotten worse, there are rows of sleeping bags around Piccadilly Gardens and spice abuse is rife. In my area, there's groups of beggars who hang around outside supermarkets and take turns. You start recognising faces. I think a couple of them live in a graveyard because I was playing Pokemon Go there and had to explain to them that I wasn't going to touch their stuff. There's this one really creepy guy who eyes me up and hassles me for change and when I said I hadn't got any he asked me to give him a note. There are local charities like Mustard Tree, and my synagogue has volunteers who give food to homeless people, but it's like trying to bail out a sinking ship with a teaspoon.

I definitely think austerity has something to do with it, that and the mental health system in this country being an absolute fucking joke.

and then they find out they're not allowed to live there! for fuck's sake, she's almost eighty years gassed!

Typhus'd /pedantry

Barcelona is cracking down on Air B'n'B's because they're causing rental prices to go up in the city.

[imitationleather]

not a problem here in Bristol. i had a word and sorted it out

Are you the bastard that approved putting a food truck on Turbo Island?

[kittens]

yes :)

[bgmnts]

Have seen a couple of homeless people even in Cwmbran in the past few years which is amazing to be fair.

Newport always been bad in my experience.

[imitationleather]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Heart-Shocking-Hidden-Britain/dp/0099583011

As it happens, I'm reading this at the moment. It's from 1997 and, after a period where things definitely did get better (I saw it happen myself on my own inner city hellhole council estate), I have to wonder if things aren't right back to being the level of fucked up described in the book for many of the places that aren't kept afloat by ever-increasing house prices.

The stuff about child prostitutes in the book proper made my jaw hit the floor. Prepare for that if you decide to give it a read.

[checkoutgirl]

The stuff about child prostitutes in the book proper made my jaw hit the floor. Prepare for that if you decide to give it a read.

There's an American comedienne called Ms Pat and she was on the Mark Maron podcast. She described herself being 16 years old and on her second kid and dealing crack outside a school to feed them. Child abuse in the hood is rampant and seems to be just accepted. It was normal to her as a 13 year old having a married man start a relationship with her as she knew no better. When it's so widespread where do you start?

And there's no way the average punter has any clue of what's going on.

[imitationleather]

There's an American comedienne called Ms Pat and she was on the Mark Maron podcast. She described herself being 16 years old and on her second kid and dealing crack outside a school to feed them. Child abuse in the hood is rampant and seems to be just accepted. It was normal to her as a 13 year old having a married man start a relationship with her as she knew no better. When it's so widespread where do you start?

And there's no way the average punter has any clue of what's going on.

The book begins with him seeing two 11 year old and 13 year old boys offering men business outside a public loo. Gnarly.

[Paul Calf]

Hmm, there is a line on the glass,  you know. The UK is the only nation that sees head on beer as some kind of grave offence. Seems to be all down to our pint to brim rather than pint to line glasses everyone else uses.

In terms of beer in Amsterdam, current going rate is €3.30 for a 33cl of shit lager,  €4.75 for a 25cl of very nice beer of any strength. The lager is a false economy over there,  it is better to drink good ale slowly.

Back to talking about vagrancy though...

Yeah, the Heineken in the glasses in some of the less salubrious venues East of the Amstel don't know about that line.

[Paul Calf]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dark-Heart-Shocking-Hidden-Britain/dp/0099583011

As it happens, I'm reading this at the moment. It's from 1997 and, after a period where things definitely did get better (I saw it happen myself on my own inner city hellhole council estate), I have to wonder if things aren't right back to being the level of fucked up described in the book for many of the places that aren't kept afloat by ever-increasing house prices.

The stuff about child prostitutes in the book proper made my jaw hit the floor. Prepare for that if you decide to give it a read.

One thing that ZaNuLieBore did get right was spending in city centres. I remember the late 80s/90s when you couldn't walk through central Manchester at night, which to anyone who's been there in the last 15 years is unbelievable.

It's not magic though. You stop spending on the programs and the problems come back.

[flotemysost]

I'm in London too and it's incredibly noticeable, especially in the (rapidly gentrified) bit of South East London where I am (though I think it's probably very visible everywhere, perhaps apart from some wealthier suburbs in Greater London - not to say it's not a problem there either, just maybe less evident at a glance).

There's something really sobering and emotionally draining about being confronted with that kind of inequality daily, but as others have said, people do inevitably just become kind of numb to it, because it's so relentless.

Homelessness is such a complex issue and very often each individual case might well have a plethora of other issues going on, trauma, addiction, abuse, mental health conditions, unstable immigration status, etc. - I know the right thing is to basically just treat people who approach you in the street as humans deserving of dignity and respect, and I try to, but when someone starts pouring out their unimaginably awful experiences you often feel pathetically unqualified to help, or even to be able to say the right thing.

I have a pre-tax donation to Crisis that comes out of my salary every month and I sign and share petitions/campaigns from them and other charities like Shelter, St. Mungo's and Centre Point (and pretty much all my clothes these days are from my local Crisis charity shop), but beyond that, buying Big Issues, and a handful of stints volunteering in shelters, it's hard to know how to even begin to help (not to say that these charities don't do incredible work, both in helping individuals and campaigning for social change to counter the root causes).

It's such a frustratingly complicated problem, which probably wouldn't even be all that difficult to fix if the housing situation here wasn't so wildly broken.

[privatefriend]

In Glasgow they put basically all rough sleepers into hotels/hostels. This puts a roof over peoples head but they are a complete scam in terms of how much they charge the council to do so (£100's a week, far more than a normal house rent).

The scottish government's 'housing first' approach is the correct one, but there is a huge shortage of housing so everything is fucked.

The beggars out in the street are mostly organised roma gangs.

[walktothewater]

The stuff about child prostitutes in the book proper made my jaw hit the floor. Prepare for that if you decide to give it a read.

Haven't read the book but in Davies' columns on the subject of child abuse networks in the Observer (or was it the Guardian, I forget) isn't there mention of a son of a former Black Rod who was implicated?

His name was subsequently revealed during the IICSA inquiry, it was Roddam Twiss. Apparently he at one point shared a house with a member of the notorious Sidney Cooke gang.

(Apologies for the link to the Mail):

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5721973/Pervert-son-former-Black-Rod-quizzed-police-investigating-Westminster-child-sex-abuse-claims.html