Slow Horses season 3

[Urinal Cake]

Jesus Christ it is boozers

[Mister Six]

That should be coke habit, obviously. Bloody predictive text.

[Blue Jam]

Boozers, not poseurs. Users would have been better, being a play both on Shirley's cole habit and the manipulative nature of several of the characters, but hey ho.

I don't mind the theme tune, to be honest. It's fine.

"losers/users" sounds a bit too obvious to me and I prefer "boozers" partly because it sounds so much more scuzzy and British. Rhyming "mistake" with "the stake" on the other hand...

Was never much of a Stones fan but I quite like the theme tune. Nice that it was written by a fan of the books I guess.

[surreal]

Not enjoyed this season as much as the first two, but still top-tier TV.  Always felt a lot like Luther to me in the way it was made, feels British but not British, not American, just... well made.

Is Jack Lowden always on the verge of doing a full-on Simon Pegg impression, or is it just this show?

[Blue Jam]

Always felt a lot like Luther to me in the way it was made, feels British but not British, not American, just... well made.

It always reminds me why I didn't enjoy Line of Duty, there's that hallmark BBC slightly cheap feel to it, which is absent in Slow Horses. I notice that with certain Netflix dramas too, a house style that feels a bit cheap. Apple TV do a good job of avoiding that.

I guess I really need to watch Luther next don't I?

[Mister Six]

Luther's great, but tonally very different form Slow Horses, especially past the (slightly naff) pilot. It's basically a monster of the week show, except the monsters are grotesque criminals. Good pulpy fun though.

[Blue Jam]

Spoiler alert

Home Alone but with own-brand Pringles, like it

[close]

[Urinal Cake]

So I guess my theory was wrong.

Spoiler alert

Little being a lucky killing machine. Any real nous and strategy only shown by Lamb. Hugo Weaving next season!

[close]

Liked Ho in the backseat watching his parents argue.

[Mister Six]

Aye, it was even more budget blockbuster than last week,

Spoiler alert

with all the usual Hollywood action logic that lets the goodies get away with being caught out of cover etc. That CD from the flat being turned into an improv weapon was very Hollywood. I didn't really mind, though - just accepted it and enjoyed it for what it was.

Ho's shit rescue got a good chuckle out of me, though, and that bit about him treating Lamb and Catherine like his mum and dad is very good.

[close]

[Jim_MacLaine]

Just finished series 3 and it's my least favourite. The final two episodes were a bit naff for all the reasons mentioned above.

I prefer more intrigue/spy stuff than poorly reasoned/directed action sequences.

Next season looks interesting though.

[Urinal Cake]

I prefer more intrigue/spy stuff than poorly reasoned/directed action sequences.

Yeah it's all over the place. Like some of you can sorta understand the purpose but the execution is all over the place

Spoiler alert

You want Marcus and Duffy (and his goons) to have an epic macho tactical shootout- well no Marcus gets saved by a woman in hand-to-hand combat. Twice!
Then you get things like Sean's last stand. The standard trope is for him going down fighting. But no it gets undercut by a single bullet to the back of the head. That's a satisfying realistic counterpoint. But then you get a flash back to him and his lover in bed which is another trope. All over the place.

[close]

[gabrielconroy]

Yeah I found that pretty underwhelming if cathartic in some ways.

Spoiler alert

It seems a cop-out to have all of the Slow Horses survive, while Donovan and Ben both die, along with literally all of the heavily armed private military team who had several major advantages, as well as Duffy, the big-eared dog and ballbag. Felt very Hollywood, but then I think even a blockbuster would have killed off one of the main character goodies at least.

Was enjoyable all the same and great to see Duffy get blottoed along with his large-eared chum, but overall disappointing and hopefully not an indication of the sort of stylistic direction the series is going in. It's much better as a more subtle spy thriller with deception and moving parts than just as some gun and explosion demonstration.

[close]

[gabrielconroy]

Yeah it's all over the place. Like some of you can sorta understand the purpose but the execution is all over the place

Spoiler alert

You want Marcus and Duffy (and his goons) to have an epic macho tactical shootout- well no Marcus gets saved by a woman in hand-to-hand combat. Twice!
Then you get things like Sean's last stand. The standard trope is for him going down fighting. But no it gets undercut by a single bullet to the back of the head. That's a satisfying realistic counterpoint. But then you get a flash back to him and his lover in bed which is another trope. All over the place.

[close]

Spoiler alert

I think that was very deliberate as they did a couple of call-backs and references to it - the "I served in Iraq and used civilians for target-practice" comical baddie said something like "night-night sweetheart" before getting stabbed in the neck by Shirley, who herself then says "night-night" before grenading the remaining baddies. And the lead baddie army man's penultimate words were to call his injured colleague a "girl" before he was dispatched by a girl.

Couple all that with how first desk and second desk were both women and it seems pretty clear that there was some intent to puncture machismo and subvert expectations of this sort of action drama - but given that Shirley herself isn't exactly averse to wanton violence I'm not sure what the point is and it all seemed very ham-fisted.

[close]

[Ignatius_S]

Renewed for a fifth season - was hoping for five and six o be filmed back to back, but you can't have everything.

River's conversation with his grandad and the mention of "A filing error"- was that a little actor allusion to Jonathan Pryce and Brazil?

Nice catch! That would be lovely if that was the case.

[Ignatius_S]

The most recent Slough House book is Bad Actors from 2022, with a novella also published in the same year. His latest one is a standalone novel, The Secret Hours, but he's already announced that he's working on another Slough House book (last paragraph).

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/sep/10/author-mick-herron-slough-house-slow-horses-spy-fiction-secret-hours-interview

From what I've been told, the standalone books have some crossover with the Slough House series as in addition to being in the same universe, characters from the latter appear in the former and provide more of their back story. Because of that, I was advised that you get a lot more out of reading them in conjunction with the SH books.

[Blue Jam]

Are the SH books worth a read then? Don't read much fiction these days.

[Ignatius_S]

Yeah I feel that too. The surface plot seems too naive. Like the real plot is for Ingrid, Jackson etc and it just does seem like a bunch of chess pieces being moved about. Which could be the point but I can't believe the primary antagonist being that naive given his history...

One article I read, described River as 'quixotic', which I think is a perfect term for him and gives impetus for the manner he acts - and let's face it, if he didn't (and everyone acts logically) there wouldn't be too much of a story.

Also, River is resentful for why he is at Slough House - unlike the others, the fuck up that got him exiled there was a set up and consequently, that sets him apart from the them and sees himself as superior. In the first episode, that's really emphasised by how disgruntled he is about the archiving of the boxed material. Personally, I feel that's a big reason why he's been slow to learn lessons and behave in the same Boys' Own manner.

[Mister Six]

Yeah I found that pretty underwhelming if cathartic in some ways.

Spoiler alert

It seems a cop-out to have all of the Slow Horses survive, while Donovan and Ben both die, along with literally all of the heavily armed private military team who had several major advantages, as well as Duffy, the big-eared dog and ballbag. Felt very Hollywood, but then I think even a blockbuster would have killed off one of the main character goodies at least.

Was enjoyable all the same and great to see Duffy get blottoed along with his large-eared chum, but overall disappointing and hopefully not an indication of the sort of stylistic direction the series is going in. It's much better as a more subtle spy thriller with deception and moving parts than just as some gun and explosion demonstration.

[close]

Broadly agree with the action thing, but

Spoiler alert

I'm fine with all the Horses surviving. It'll get a bit rote if they knock one off each season, and there's still enough mileage in all these characters yet. Well, except maybe Ho.

[close]

[Ignatius_S]

Are the SH books worth a read then? Don't read much fiction these days.

I've read the first and think I will read them at some point, but I much preferred the first season to the first book and wanted to watch more of the show first (although saying that, I think I'll read the second one sooner, rather than later). It was a good page turner, but for me very much a potboiler (and one or two of the jokes, feel flat and dated) - however, I think my expectations were raised by hearing such good things and the comparisons made to Le Carre.

In fairness, I think often people are guided by whether they read or saw the adaptation first and will lean to that. A friend of a friend hugely adores the books and refused to watch the series at first - and when they did, was not impressed!

I wrote a bit about it in this thread - https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=102420.30 - and it's worth looking at Glyn's response (which I meant to respond to!) on the next page.

[Ignatius_S]

Broadly agree with the action thing, but

Spoiler alert

I'm fine with all the Horses surviving. It'll get a bit rote if they knock one off each season, and there's still enough mileage in all these characters yet. Well, except maybe Ho.

[close]

Yeah, that's very much my view -

Spoiler alert

as things stand, it feels like any of the characters could be killed/written out at pretty much any time, which gives it a edge but could become 'place your bets, who will be die in this season' if it's used too much.

[close]

Also,

Spoiler alert

my understanding is that they're being very faithful to the books so their hands are tied. It did look from the trailer, one will be dead next season, so we will see.... just not soon enough!

[close]

[Mister Six]

Do we still have to use spoilers, by the way? Surely nobody's coming into the thread without having watched all the episodes at this point?

[Mister Six]

Anyway, what are people's thoughts on future Slough House character deaths? Because I like making lists, here are my most feared to least arsed:

Jackson Lamb - I mean, the show basically only exists because of Gary Oldman. The moment he steps down,  it's over.

Louisa - I loved her relationship with Min, and Rosalind Eleazar really sold her broken heart in seasons 2 and 3. I just want her to catch a break. Also, I fancy her.

Catherine - There's still drama to be mined from her relationship to Jackson, and I always enjoy the moments when she gets to show how clever she is, despite being overlooked by practically everyone.

Marcus - I think his actor is probably the weakest of the core cast, but I like his presence and his character feels like someone who could grow a little bit more.

Shirley - I quite like Aimee-Ffion Edwards in the role, but Shirley seems like the least interesting of the new Horses, and while her chemistry with Marcus is fun, it's hard to see where they can take her, character-wise.

River - Don't have anything against him as such, but I find him a bit of a nonentity as a character. Also, someone pointed out that he's doing a Simon Pegg impression and now I can't unsee it. Obviously he's in it for the long haul, especially with the granddad connection, but if he got blown up I wouldn't be that bothered.

Roddy - Annoying twat who's not as funny as the showrunners seem to think he is (although I did like the bit with the bus). I guess they need a hacker to do, essentially, magic and move the plot along expeditiously, but does it have to be him?

[non capisco]

I miss the endearingly useless Min, shame he was the first main character to die. Dustin Demri-Burns certainly has range as the last thing I saw him in was All My Friends Hate Me where he's exquisitely objectionable.

[Urinal Cake]

One article I read, described River as 'quixotic', which I think is a perfect term for him and gives impetus for the manner he acts - and let's face it, if he didn't (and everyone acts logically) there wouldn't be too much of a story.

Also, River is resentful for why he is at Slough House - unlike the others, the fuck up that got him exiled there was a set up and consequently, that sets him apart from the them and sees himself as superior. In the first episode, that's really emphasised by how disgruntled he is about the archiving of the boxed material. Personally, I feel that's a big reason why he's been slow to learn lessons and behave in the same Boys' Own manner.

I meant Sean Donovan, like if they showed if he had become reckless or had a death wish that would explain his actions even though it's quite clear he was never going to come out of this alive or free. 

River's motivation is quite clear he thinks he's James Bourne and wants to get back into proper MI5 and live up to the family name.

I still think Marcus is Travener's mole\plant.

Spoiler alert

I think that was very deliberate as they did a couple of call-backs and references to it - the "I served in Iraq and used civilians for target-practice" comical baddie said something like "night-night sweetheart" before getting stabbed in the neck by Shirley, who herself then says "night-night" before grenading the remaining baddies. And the lead baddie army man's penultimate words were to call his injured colleague a "girl" before he was dispatched by a girl.

Couple all that with how first desk and second desk were both women and it seems pretty clear that there was some intent to puncture machismo and subvert expectations of this sort of action drama - but given that Shirley herself isn't exactly averse to wanton violence I'm not sure what the point is and it all seemed very ham-fisted.

[close]

I think I got the point but I think it was clumsily done. Maybe if Shirley was powered by coke that would've made it more fun or something.



 

[Mister Six]

I meant Sean Donovan, like if they showed if he had become reckless or had a death wish that would explain his actions even though it's quite clear he was never going to come out of this alive or free. 

He talks about going to face justice once the documents have been leaked. He doesn't care about anything other than that. Donovan presumably figured his options were drinking himself to death, getting revenge and going to prison or dying trying, and figured he had nothing else to lose.

His girlfriend's brother and sister seem a tougher sell, but I can see them being led on, and maybe thinking that if they can whistleblow the truth without getting anyone killed, the might get away with lower sentences or something.

[Urinal Cake]

Ah must of forgot about that.

[Mister Six]

It's specifically in relation to him killing Spider, but if he's willing to do time for manslaughter, he was presumably okay to go down for espionage, kidnapping etc. And he talks to Catherine about being an alcoholic. It lines up fine for me. As I say, I find the other two a bit less believable, given the stakes.

[TrenterPercenter]

Another one I'm just catching up with (S3 E2 currently so not looking up thread).  Really good, I'm always impressed with how much I can almost smell Oldman.

It is a bit "BBtwee*" at times, as in they sometimes talk and make decisions that normal people won't do

Spoiler alert

karate chop a murderous giant skinhead with a gun who then overpowers you and instead of killing you as per plan shuts you in public toilet, hmmmm OK

[close]

, and there is always this over hanging question that they are considered to be the basement dwellers looking after the bee in a bottle yet are saving LONDON from being bleown orp.

"Spooks" for the jilted generation but Oldman brings it altogether somehow. Big fan.



*i.e. that kind of BBC posh-gloss and character warping British state TV tends to lean towards.

[Mister Six]

there is always this over hanging question that they are considered to be the basement dwellers looking after the bee in a bottle yet are saving LONDON from being bleown orp

Not really, though? In series one they manage to save one hostage, which is nice but not exactly high stakes. In series two they achieve basically nothing except killing the smug Russian arsehole - but not before he successfully nicks all the cryptocurrency from not-Navalny's account. And River accidentally helps them in their plot.

[TrenterPercenter]

Not really, though? In series one they manage to save one hostage, which is nice but not exactly high stakes. In series two they achieve basically nothing except killing the smug Russian arsehole - but not before he successfully nicks all the cryptocurrency from not-Navalny's account. And River accidentally helps them in their plot.

That's a fair point.  I think I had that thought when

Spoiler alert

when they believed the bomb was on the way there

[close]

but of course it never actually happened in the end did it.