Love Has Won: The Cult of Mother God (HBO Cult Documentary)

[Noodle Lizard]

I watched this three-parter documentary on a whim, not expecting much from it at all as the past ten years or so has been oversaturated with this sort of thing. This one's exec produced by the Safdie Bros, though, and we like them!

Considering I hadn't knowingly heard anything about this particular cult, I wasn't prepared for just how mad this story got, and how comparatively recent it is to the point where the majority of its interview subjects are still active followers rather than the usual "deprogrammed" former members or detached cult experts.

It concerns a New Age hippy/alt-right cult led by a woman who abandoned her three children after taking ecstasy one time and claiming to be God (also the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, St. Germain and Marilyn Monroe). Typical enough, but of course it escalates, and it's not a spoiler to reveal that it all culminates in a situation with her followers transporting her blue, mummified corpse across state lines and leaving it in her bed decorated with Christmas lights for weeks before the police finally intervene.

How it got to that point is predictably mad, and while the documentary does focus on the more obviously wacky elements of the cult (Robin Williams as a galactic guide, Q-Anon adjacent Trump stuff etc.), it's far more concerned with the human side of it and, perhaps more subtly, the failure of American society to provide these people with the kinds of answers and solutions they desperately need.

It's an eerily similar story to that of a woman I knew who went down almost exactly the same path (moved to Colorado, started a New Agey conspiracy cult, worshipped Trump and Jim Carrey etc.), even down to the aesthetics of everything and the types of people who gravitated towards her. There must be countless similar examples - despite its wackiness, the cult's doctrine is actually very low-effort and  derivative - but they were successful enough in their grift to the point where their leader was enabled to spectacularly destroy herself.

The final episode carries a special warning at the head of it, and for good reason. Some of the stuff you see in there is truly grotesque, and some images will stay with me for a good long while.

I thought it was well made, and the story and some of the characters involved are interesting enough for me to do some follow-up research. At three hours, this documentary is still only the tip of the iceberg it seems.

I dunno if there's a way to get HBO Max in the UK, but it should be available regardless.

[niat]

This is on Sky Documentaries in the UK, for those with Sky or Now TV.

Sounds intriguing, will definitely give it a watch.

[Cottonon]

Thanks for the recommendation. As the OP says, when you've seen a few of these type of docs the parade of vulnerable people who need actual therapeutic help is all too familiar. But being only 3 parts this didn't pad things out and I watched them all in one sitting.

Don't feel like there were any new insights into these kinds of group behaviour but the wealth of material (as with NXIVM) sustained it.

Some of the scenes are quite haunting but one can't help but feel the individual shot of Rodney Dangerfield in the galactico hall of fame was played for laugh.

[perplexingprocrastinator]

Don't feel like there were any new insights into these kinds of group behaviour but the wealth of material (as with NXIVM) sustained it.

Truly we are in a golden age of cult documentaries, for Lo, they are all as saturated in social-media as the rest of us (and apparently so un-self-aware that they have no idea that sometimes, particularly when incriminating your entire operation, it might be a good idea to turn the cameras off).

As with Nxium (sp.?) - and recent docs about the thoroughly sad, equally thin and extremely grim Twin-Flames cult* - you just keep thinking WHY, WHY are you filming this?

Other than to selflessly provide reams of fabulously entertaining... incredibly sad... fabulously entertaining yet incredibly sad footage to the editors of the streaming docu-series about your foul little enterprise when it inevitably collapses under the weight of your own ego, greed, incompetence, madness, sadism - or all of the above. 

*which is still operating and is presided over by the most odious, self-regarding yet utterly trivial little prick on the planet. Seriously, let me see him jailed in my lifetime, please god let me see it.

[perplexingprocrastinator]

Also, the parallels / direct crossover of cults with MLM schemes is really striking.

The thing I find most interesting with all these is squinting at the cult leaders and trying to figure out if they believe their own bullshit, or if it's a total grift from top to bottom.

With Keith Ranieri, I'm saying grift. With Love Has Won, I'm saying she believed her own bullshit and it all got reinforced by her emotionally needy / lost followers.

With the Twin Flames guy, I think grift + depraved sadism / power-trip.

[sevendaughters]

will have a look. HBO documentaries seem to have a brilliant hook and no substance. Telemarketers was an all-timer of an episode 1 and then just became a dry hump.

[Jim_MacLaine]

Watching the first episode.

They really love their weed don't they.

[Jim_MacLaine]

Finished it now and enjoyed it.

To think it all started with some old geezer wanting to get his end away with Amy and managing it by convincing her she was 'Mother God'.

Poor old Father God 2 being cucked by the mad, bad Father God 3 Jason.

Also it may not be coincidental that the only person I didn't see high was Miguel, $300,000 richer by the end of it all.

[thelittlemango]

Miguel had the biggest grifter vibe throughout, even before I knew the end game he seemed the least sincere and most "let's keep this gravy train running!" whenever he recited some of their shite to try and gee up the followers or emphasise his belief, it was inevitable he'd fuck off with the bunce.

Very grim, and with a high volume of grifters to gullible people, normally these are chock full of people from the wrong place at the wrong time who are seeking solice, whereas these guys mostly seemed much more calculated. The British woman stood out for that, flying over and immediately telling them they needed to recruit others and getting stuck in. On the flip side, the mum with three kids had the gaze of someone who had fully drank the kool-aid (apologies for the overly literal analogy) and was looking to find acceptance somewhere.

[checkoutgirl]

It concerns a New Age hippy/alt-right cult

It's a cult but at between 12 and 20 members it's got to be one of the smallest cults ever. Miniscule. It seemed to be an alcoholic and mentally ill child abandoner who talked rubbish and a few desperate people with difficult childhoods attached to her as a replacement for parents. Hence the mother part of Mother God.

Just admit you're a drug addict and alcoholic. You're not "using tools to commune with the universe" you're getting drunk and pissed up on booze. You're not "channeling the chakras of the spirit gods" you're smoking meth. I'm not moral about substance use but dressing it up as spirituality is one of the most blatant scams ever.

Couple of proper chancers here too. The last father fella was your basic criminal scam artist looking for a meal ticket, even chasing it 500 miles across America. He was that determined to not get a job. And the archangel Mike lad, it was so obvious he was after the money immediately.

It was interesting how her bullshit caught up with her when she asked to be taken to hospital and they're like no way, why would god need to go to the hospital? She sealed her own doom there.

It's amazing how easily you can rustle up a dozen followers to make a small cult in America. Amy was barely even trying and still people believe it. If she was more organized, diligent and could knock the booze on the head for a couple of months she'd probably have thousands of devotees by now.

[checkoutgirl]

Miguel had the biggest grifter vibe throughout, even before I knew the end game he seemed the least sincere and most "let's keep this gravy train running!"

Oh yeah! There was one scene in particular where they're all standing around clapping and making a fuss over some bullshit. And Miguel is just halfheartedly clapping along, clearly not interested and not believing it at all but trying not to let on.

And when the first father started kicking off about it being a scam, Miguel and Amy put him in his place. Play along or fuck off basically. These types of conversations probably happen in all cults in the early stages. When people decide their reasons for doing it and then commit.

[checkoutgirl]

How many cult leaders have video footage of them doing karaoke in TGI Fridays? Cults of the future are going to get trickier in that the new cult leaders are going to have countless gigabytes of their life immortalised on social media and the internet.

It's already becoming impossible for Scientology to recruit anymore because youtube is awash with people debunking it in minute detail and TV shows and films too.

Cults will spring up, get a couple dozen members and peter out as news of the scam spreads on the internet.

[checkoutgirl]

when you've seen a few of these type of docs the parade of vulnerable people who need actual therapeutic help is all too familiar.

Yeah I'm a sucker for a cult documentary but it can get thematically repetitive. The narcissism, the childhood abuse etc. I've come to realise that I much prefer cult docs where the participants have left the cult and are using their critical mind.

When most of the interviewees are still under the belief, or at least pretending to be, then you have to listen to ungodly amounts of delusional bullshit that doesn't make any sense at all and is often contradictory.

Then you're just shouting at the screen like an idiot.

[Noodle Lizard]

It's a cult but at between 12 and 20 members it's got to be one of the smallest cults ever

While we only see a handful of the actively involved followers in the documentary, she had quite a substantial following online who were willing to throw money at them. They had something like $400k liquid by the time she died (all in Miguel's name; despicable as he is, you've got to admire the long con), and those two intense young women continue to pull an audience.

The Final Father God definitely seemed like a scam artist, but I think there was a bit more to it than that. He stuck around well past the point it would've been useful to him, including sleeping in a tent with Mother's corpse for the best part of two weeks (definitely not having any sex with it) and then driving all the way from Oregon to Colorado with it stinking up the car. Maybe it was just for the money, but that's some serious dedication to the bit; especially since Miguel had already pulled the funds by that point.

How many cult leaders have video footage of them doing karaoke in TGI Fridays? Cults of the future are going to get trickier in that the new cult leaders are going to have countless gigabytes of their life immortalised on social media and the internet.

Cults will spring up, get a couple dozen members and peter out as news of the scam spreads on the internet.

They explained away God having worked in McDonald's by claiming she was "putting love in the food".

Honestly, I don't know if your second claim is true. With the internet, we're seeing this sort of delusion on a pretty grand scale now. Look at the Q-Anon types. There's no amount of debunking or debating that will change people's minds about convictions like these, no matter how blatantly bollocks it is. If Mother God was able to pull it off with such a low-effort operation, it's concerning to think what someone with an actual idea could manage.

[checkoutgirl]

Not to weasel out of what I was saying but I was thinking more your traditional cult with a leader on a big chair and cult members milling around a house or a boat in L Ron's case.

Q is Trump but he wouldn't be caught dead a hundred feet from a poor smelly QAnon follower. That seems like a different type of cult.

But yeah, I suppose bigger traditional cults are possible but they seem to peter out or get put in prison. Even that Wild Country fella was chased across America by the FBI and the Xion sex cult guy is locked up.

It really is disturbing that a complete buffoon like Amy can get a following when she was hammered drunk and high as a kite the entire time and hadn't really even read the cult playbook properly. Just winging it the whole time.

[Famous Mortimer]

Is QAnon still a thing? I assumed January 6th pretty much did for them.

[checkoutgirl]

He stuck around well past the point it would've been useful to him,

It's debatable and hard to know for sure. But his energy when he began the interview just reeked of him knowing the score but just not wanting to let go of the con. He waved his hands around a bit and did the starchild hippy act but when Amy died I reckon he didn't know what to do next and some Christmas lights was his best idea.

I don't believe for a second that his current website with that other guy is anything but an extension of the scam. He's committed though, I'll give him that.

[checkoutgirl]

$400k liquid by the time she died

Scientology has 10 billion quid or something. 400k is a tidy sum for one individual but it's not much money for a cult in my opinion. You can't even get a house in L.A for that anymore.

[Joe Oakes]

Spoiler alert

You would have thought that her followers would have made a connection between her habit of ingesting increasing amounts silver and her rapidly declining health, at least at the point when she literally turned the colour silver.

[close]

Spoiler alert

I'm not a doctor.

[close]

[Viero_Berlotti]

It's clear that Amy Carlson became a victim of her own cult in the end. I think it is more than just a coincidence that her health really started to decline not long after convicted felon 'Father God' Jason showed up on the scene. During his police questioning he was very specific about knowing exactly how much money the cult had in the bank, so he'd obviously been watching and had his eye on this for some time.

My theory is that he thought that with Amy out of the way, he could manipulate the other cult members into transferring control of the assets over to him as 'Father God'. So he killed Amy by weaponising the resolute beliefs of the cult members and accelerating the alcohol, drugs, colloidal silver and restricted diet that killed her.

He kept the body and stayed with it for so long because he was probably worried that an autopsy might point to poisoning. So his plan was for her to 'ascend', which would have really just been him hiding/burying the body somewhere. This plan was scuppered though because he could never really get rid of the other cult members so he could be on his own with the body long enough do this in secret. There's one point when they are out camping with the body waiting for it to 'ascend' when the others go into town to freshen up and get supplies, but they clearly didn't trust him so one of them stays back. He realises he's not going to be able to get rid of the body in secret, so decides to drive all the way back to the main house with the other guy.

By this point Miguel has cottoned on to Jason's game and transfers all the money over to himself, and calls the police because he suspects foul play and doesn't want to be implicated in a possible murder. Jason's got no choice but to carry on with the whole charade because if he runs away it looks even more suspicious. Despite not trusting or liking him the other cult members won't turn on Jason because if they did it would undermine their whole belief system and also make them culpable in Amy's death.