Extras - Series 2 [split topic]

[purlieu]

The marketing keeps on rolling though - it's almost constant. I'd say it actually outweighs the work Gervais creates, the amount of time and effort that must be put into it.

I think the point was that some people would like to be able to have a conversation about the comedy; about the show itself, without it constantly being derailed by arguments that could be kept in another thread.  Nobody's saying they should, just that the separation would make the discussions a little clearer.

[ffogems]

I think the point was that some people would like to be able to have a conversation about the comedy; about the show itself, without it constantly being derailed by arguments that could be kept in another thread.  Nobody's saying they should, just that the separation would make the discussions a little clearer.

What, lots of 'I liked this bit' 'yeah me too lol'-type discussions? What would be the point?

[purlieu]

At what point did "a conversation about the comedy; about the show itself" come to mean "I liked this bit yeah me too lol-type discussions"?
Jesus Christ.  We've been having a discussion about the dialogue and why it's good/bad/what it rips off/what lines and scenes were the most effective.  Or we were, until the "Gervais markets himself!!" argument came up.

[Backstage With Slowdive]

All all media involves treating the public like fucking idiots, so let's accept that and move on.

But there used to be this thing on BBC2 called the Open University.

[Utter Shit]

The marketing keeps on rolling though - it's almost constant. I'd say it actually outweighs the work Gervais creates, the amount of time and effort that must be put into it.

I think the point was that some people would like to be able to have a conversation about the comedy; about the show itself, without it constantly being derailed by arguments that could be kept in another thread.  Nobody's saying they should, just that the separation would make the discussions a little clearer.

Pretty much spot on, except that I am specifically saying it 'should'. Lalla throwing his toys out of the pram and crying about not being told what to do should be ignored.

ffogems, have you even read the discussion that's actually going on? It's overwhelmingly negative. Read before you post, otherwise you'll just end up making more stupid comments.

[Little Hoover]

*edit* what purlieu said.

Now I certainly agree that sometimes you could say something like  "this line here just seemed to be an attempt to appeal to this demographic" (maybe not in those words)  now that would be discussing the actual content of the show, whilst still talking about marketing, and in that example they  aren't mutually exclusive, and I don't think people would mind that, you'd be discussing the comedy and the marketing instead of just the marketing.
But usually the criticism of the marketing doesn't get as specfic as that, it's just generalised stuff about the show and Gervais as a whole, which is what I think people find annoying.
Yes it's right to say marketing comes into it, and it's wrong for people to ignore that, but it's also wrong to ignore the show itself.

[Backstage With Slowdive]

Gervais and Merchant's relationship works much better, but then that appears to be a given so no point me raking over that again, eh?

All those scenes are killed for me by Merchant's crushingly awful acting, which wouldn't even be good enough in bright shiny trad sitcom of the kind When The Whistle Blows is meant to be. As for the "relationship" itself, it simply makes no sense. Why would Andy bother with such a shit agent, who never did him any good? It's all very well David Brent having a shit agent (in the Office Xmas Specials) but he's a nobody going nowhere. Andy Millman has got a TV deal and has at least got a shot at success. So the first thing he'd do is ditch the useless agent. But he doesn't, and that makes the "relationship" less real than anything in Terry & June.

[ffogems]

At what point did "a conversation about the comedy; about the show itself" come to mean "I liked this bit yeah me too lol-type discussions"?
Jesus Christ.

Because that's generally how those discussions transpire. Honestly, do you really think there's much mileage in discussing the content of a show without branching out to its influences and the media current that churns it? It's like being in a single-colour perspective-free room.

We've been having a discussion about the dialogue and why it's good/bad/what it rips off/what lines and scenes were the most effective.

How can you do all that without contrasting? And maybe you and I just have differing regards about the parameters set by the 'just let us discuss the merits of the show' whiny boys but my view was that they don't want any comparisons to be made with other shows. Which I think is impossible - your entire stance and regard is shaped by what you bring to the table. I think Extras is shit because I've seen better. My parents titter along and purport to enjoy it, perhaps because they don't watch as much comedy as I do and are more susceptible of hype. Does that give my opinion more weight? No, but these factors are important when understanding why somebody likes or doesn't like a particular bit, and most interesting.

were, until the "Gervais markets himself!!" argument came up.

Okay fine, I agree that that specific area can stifle discussion. Treat my comments more generally then.

Read before you post, otherwise you'll just end up making more stupid comments.

Oh put your cap the right way round you fucking tedious posturing twat. And anyway, Purlieu's request for a 'discussion about the show itself' were very general and not specific to the thread (although admittedly emanating from this thread's events) and so I replied appropriately.

[Utter Shit]

What's wrong with what I've said there? We're discussing the show in an almost entirely negative light, and you come in and tell us that when we say we want to discuss the show, all that means is we all want to agree that it was good. Clearly, this is absolutely untrue - so again, what's wrong with what I've said?

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Can I just interject to point out that the top three threads on tonight's board all concern Ricky Gervais (four if you include the Gervais references in the Comedy Awards thread)?

Christ, that man's popular around here. We can't get enough of him!

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

The number of times you spout dull nothingness about the marketing far outweighs anything you have to say about the actual show, and that is simply not the right way round.

My view is that Extras only exists because of the way Gervais (and comedy generally) is marketed these days. 'The show itself' isn't worth discussing in any great depth, because it wouldn't exist without Gervais' self-promotion and the industry that laps it up. Extras is a show about The Gervais Success Story - the worst kind of vanity project. I know you think that's all bollocks, but it's my view and it's not an off-topic one for a thread simply entitled 'Extras Series 2'.

Restricting ourselves to 'the comedy itself' is like insisting that music fans only discuss bands in terms of time signatures and chord changes.

All all media involves treating the public like fucking idiots, so let's accept that and move on.

You don't have to accept it, you know.

[rudi]

Restricting ourselves to 'the comedy itself' is like insisting that music fans only discuss bands in terms of time signatures and chord changes.

No  it's not - it's like the oft held point that an album's great, but is made by extremely unpleasant (some think) people, qv guns n roses, faith no more, lennon, any number of hip hop acts (these aren't my choices you understand - just examples).

If I kept interrupting a thread in SE that was discussing the merits of, I dunno, Use Your Illusion with "that Axl though - what a cunt" I'd soon be told I was getting pretty tiresome...

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

If I kept interrupting a thread in SE that was discussing the merits of, I dunno, Use Your Illusion with "that Axl though - what a cunt" I'd soon be told I was getting pretty tiresome...

If you believed that Use Your Illusion only existed because of the cuntiness of Axl Rose and the way he marketed himself, then that would be a legitimate opinion within the thread.

Also, I'm not just saying 'What a cunt'. I'm pointing out specific things - fresh instances of dubiousness (eg, the Arnie quote).

['Ullo John!]

All all media involves treating the public like fucking idiots, so let's accept that and move on.

http://www.(spam).co.uk/

[purlieu]

were, until the "Gervais markets himself!!" argument came up.

Okay fine, I agree that that specific area can stifle discussion. Treat my comments more generally then.

In which case, most of what you said is fair enough, but I was only reacting against this point in particular.  If people want to bring Gervais' off-screen persona into things, fair enough, but there's a thread about Gervais' off-screen persona, so if it doesn't relate to something that actually happened in Extras, it does seem extraneous.  Especially, as I and others have pointed out, at a period when people are actually discussing the show's strengths and weaknesses in detail.

'The show itself' isn't worth discussing in any great depth, because it wouldn't exist without Gervais' self-promotion and the industry that laps it up.

Why does that make it not worth discussing in any great depth?  Evidently over the last few pages, people have wanted to discuss the show itself.  And yes, comparisons to other shows that Gervais and Merchant may or may not have ripped off have come into it, but it's all kept to the point of discussing the show in detail.
Basically, if people are discussing which lines they think are the funniest and most effective, don't be surprised if they're going to get annoyed when someone comes in and goes "yes but Gervais is a cunt because he said this in relation to something he's going to do in the future".

I know you think that's all bollocks, but it's my view and it's not an off-topic one for a thread simply entitled 'Extras Series 2'.

Considering you were posting about our man Ricky's plans for Extras Series 3, this kind of pettiness backfires, y'know...

[poodlefaker]

The scene with Moira Stewart being arrested & making a cut throat sign at Millman was very good indeed. Perhaps the only celeb cameo that had any comedic force, I thought. Brief, to the point, well acted by MS & a genuine laugh out loud shock.

I didn't see every episode, but it's about the only proper laugh I remember

[Jemble Fred]

The scene with Moira Stewart being arrested & making a cut throat sign at Millman was very good indeed. Perhaps the only celeb cameo that had any comedic force, I thought. Brief, to the point, well acted by MS & a genuine laugh out loud shock.

Course, it'll mean fuck-all to the US crowd â€" but it's nice to think of it as revenge for all those shrugworthy Family Guy & South Park references.

[thewomb]

All all media involves treating the public like fucking idiots, so let's accept that and move on.

You don't have to accept it, you know.

Yeah, you do.

What are you going to do about it? Complain on a messageboard?

[thewomb]

All all media involves treating the public like fucking idiots, so let's accept that and move on.

http://www.(spam).co.uk/

What the fuck point is that supposed to make, or is it just a tenuous snipe?

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Describing your own posts, there.

[thewomb]

JESUS FUCK that was witless. I can't believe your brain actually let that one through.

[Godzilla Bankrolls]

Go and find those examples of dialogue, son.

[Bert Thung]

He's as mad as hell and he's not going to take it anymore

[butnut]

If RG did start posting here, I wonder how long it would take for his comments to become Chortle 'news'.

[Brutus Beefcake]

All all media involves treating the public like fucking idiots, so let's accept that and move on.

You don't have to accept it, you know.

Yeah, you do.

What are you going to do about it? Complain on a messageboard?

Invade a Saturday morning chart show?

[thewomb]

Not a bad idea.

[Sheldon Finklestein]

All all media involves treating the public like fucking idiots, so let's accept that and move on.

You don't have to accept it, you know.

Yeah, you do.

What are you going to do about it? Complain on a messageboard?

This would be a pretty barren message board if we were only allowed to discuss subjects over which we have personal control. So, yes, we complain, and yes, it doesn't make any difference, but surely there is something to be said for just having an understanding of something, even if it doesn't affect anyone but you?

[Emergency Lalla Ward Ten]

This would be a pretty barren message board if we were only allowed to discuss subjects over which we have personal control. So, yes, we complain, and yes, it doesn't make any difference, but surely there is something to be said for just having an understanding of something, even if it doesn't affect anyone but you?

Indeed. The reason why things are The Way They Are is partly due to the sheer number of people saying 'Well, that's just the way things are'.