Super Mario Odyssey - and some general chat about Mario games

[Kelvin]

There's almost fuck all dialogue like that in it. The loading screens between worlds are literally the only ones where you can't move, and the rest of the controls just appear on screen the first time you need to use them, and while you're still moving around. There are probably 10 times more moves and abilities than you'd find in a classic Mario side scroller.

[Hecate]

I hated the new mario too, almost as much as the new zelda. Something bad has happened at nintendo, I think they're making games by committee now, unfortunately the shit munchers are lapping it up so we'll only see more of the same. Everything is so bland and soulless now.

Since I do all my indie gaming on pc, my switch has been a 250 quid dust magnet since launch. Even my nephew turned his nose up at it.
Just as it seemed like they were finally ready to put their waggle and other ("Jump on a pogo stick to make mario do a fungame!") novelty control gimmicks on the back burner, unfortunately it seems to have coincided with them forgetting how to make good games.

If you want a decent, recent mario, you only have to go back as far as Super Mario 3D World (or "cat mario" as it's known affectionately by the real fans who stuck with them through the wii-u).

Too much dialogue? That didn't even make the list of why I stopped playing, but you're probably right.

[madhair60]

Holy shit.

[Kelvin]

I hated the new mario too, almost as much as the new zelda. Something bad has happened at nintendo, I think they're making games by committee now, unfortunately the shit munchers are lapping it up so we'll only see more of the same.

Oh no. More Breath of the Wilds and Mario Odesseys. A doomsday scenario.

If you want a decent, recent mario, you only have to go back as far as Super Mario 3D World (or "cat mario" as it's known affectionately by the real fans who stuck with them through the wii-u).

How is that more ambitious than Odessey? 3D world is good, but it's effectively just Mario 3 in 2.5D. Odessey is bursting with ideas by comparison, and I don't see how one plays so differently from the other that one can be trash and one can be great.

[madhair60]

Edit: arguing about Mario - fuck it

[colacentral]

I hated the new mario too, almost as much as the new zelda. Something bad has happened at nintendo, I think they're making games by committee now, unfortunately the shit munchers are lapping it up so we'll only see more of the same. Everything is so bland and soulless now.

Since I do all my indie gaming on pc, my switch has been a 250 quid dust magnet since launch. Even my nephew turned his nose up at it.
Just as it seemed like they were finally ready to put their waggle and other ("Jump on a pogo stick to make mario do a fungame!") novelty control gimmicks on the back burner, unfortunately it seems to have coincided with them forgetting how to make good games.

If you want a decent, recent mario, you only have to go back as far as Super Mario 3D World (or "cat mario" as it's known affectionately by the real fans who stuck with them through the wii-u).

Too much dialogue? That didn't even make the list of why I stopped playing, but you're probably right.

Strange to think that this is the opposite of what madhair thinks, completely subverting my expectations. Up is down, black is white.

Even though I disagree, I understand the Zelda criticisms and I can see how for a certain type of person it would just not be at all what they want from a Zelda game. That's fair enough.

But come on - if you like Mario 64 and Mario Sunshine, you're going to like Odyssey. It's really no different. What I'd say about the text is that I do think there's alot of it in the early going in the form of the hat talking to you and the little tutorial boxes popping up, but the vast majority of the game is without any of that - you could easily put 60 hours in and the amount of time spent on stages / moons where you're receiving instructions will be an hour at most.

It is something that's been doing my head in starting Captain Toad this week though, the way that the screen is cluttered with instructions constantly. From memory I think the Wii U gamepad allowed for a bit less of that with everything being split across two screens; and obviously the lack of manuals packed in to games is a contributor. I wish that I could go into a menu and turn that stuff off as it does annoy me that I can't just enjoy the beautiful graphics of Captain Toad without a big semi-transparent animation of a joy-con spoiling it.

[madhair60]

I can't stomach Mario 64, 3D Mario didn't hit the spot til Odyssey for me.

[Hecate]

Oh no. More Breath of the Wilds and Mario Odesseys. A doomsday scenario.

Hehe, well yeah, it isn't the end of the world, but as someone who buys nintendo consoles to play mario kart, mario and zelda. it's upsetting to think that they'll just keep re-releasing mario kart 8 until everyone has bought it, and that all future mario and zelda games will be utter shit.

How is that more ambitious than Odessey?

I didn't say it was more ambitious. I just said that it was a much better mario game. You can play as a princess who's a cat!
In this new one you can play as a frog or a bullet. utter bullshit. Waste of time.

Hey guys, what was the best game of 2017? Was it chutney breath or mario's boring holiday? Click through to find out the results!
It was nex machina, you stupid fucking cunts. Now go back to arguing on your pissy little forum.

I fucking hate gamers.

[Twed]

Then why do you sound so much like one?

[Hecate]

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

[colacentral]

They re-released Mario Kart 8 the one time, because no one bought a Wii-U. There will obviously be a Switch exclusive Mario Kart at some point, so I don't understand the point about re-releasing it over and over again, nor how that relates to Mario Odyssey.

[Hecate]

There will obviously be a Switch exclusive Mario Kart at some point

Yeah, Mario Kart 8 Uber Deluxe, it'll run at 61 frames a second.

[colacentral]

Yeah, Mario Kart 8 Uber Deluxe, it'll run at 61 frames a second.

Based on what? This is literally the first time that Nintendo have re-released games en masse from a previous generation, and the reasons why are obvious, but you're acting like it's standard practice.

[Kelvin]

Hehe, well yeah, it isn't the end of the world, but as someone who buys nintendo consoles to play mario kart, mario and zelda. it's upsetting to think that they'll just keep re-releasing mario kart 8 until everyone has bought it, and that all future mario and zelda games will be utter shit.

Do you not think you're being a wee bit hyperbolic, here? Utter shit? Botw is utter shit? Mario is utter shit? They aren't just games with problems that you can't see past (which is perfectly fair, of course), but rather they are utter shit, in the truest sense; unforgiveably lazy, broken, badly made games, with little or nothing to redeem them. I can totally understand someone not liking them, in fact I didn't enjoy Mario Odessey at first, either, but I just find this type of hyperbole silly, really.

It was nex machina, you stupid fucking cunts. Now go back to arguing on your pissy little forum.

I fucking hate gamers.

If only we could be as loveable as you. This subforum's equivilant of The Ironic Review.

[Hecate]

in fact I didn't enjoy Mario Odessey at first, either

Oh, really? What made you see the light?

[Kelvin]

Oh, really? What made you see the light?

I didn't see the light. I just found that the problems I had with the game became less of an issue after the first few worlds, and I therefore found it easier to focus on the things that it did so brilliantly.

I still think the camera is frequently a pain in the arse, and that the game has some noteworthy problems. But I also think it does so much right, and do well, and so frequently, that I honestly don't care. The main quest, played from start to end without doing any filler, might be my favourite 3D Mario to date. I've replayed that section countless times.

[Hecate]

This is literally the first time that Nintendo have re-released games en masse from a previous generation, and the reasons why are obvious, but you're acting like it's standard practice.

Remember when nintendo released the GBA? Ergonomic but it had no backlight?
Virtually unusable unless you positioned it at the perfect angle under a desktop lamp?

Here it is shown alongside a GBA modded with a backlight for comparison.



Remember when they released the painfully unergonomic GBA SP with a frontlight that did more harm than good?



Remember when they released the painfully unergonomic GBA SP with a backlight which was great but you had to buy a third party grip to play it for longer than 5 minutes without getting cramp?

Remember when they released the 3ds and I complained on a gaming forum that the screen was too small and that the 3d effect was good, the best I'd seen, in fact, but wasn't usable on a handheld, remember how I said that they should have added an extra circle pad?
Remember that I was mocked and made a laughing stock?

Remember how they released the 3dsXL with the bigger screen? and then the circle pad pro for the extra circle pad? Remember how they released the 2ds that removed the 3d effect entirely? Remember how all those who had mocked me said that now the 3ds was perfect?

You ask me why I hate gamers, I'll tell you why I hate gamers.

I wouldn't have a glossy screen in my house nevermind outside on a bus! Trust me, nintendo aren't thick, they know what they're doing, mario kart 8 61 will be a switch 2 exclusive.

[Hecate]

Kelvin, please tell me why you hate nex machina so much, for balance.

[Kelvin]

Kelvin, please tell me why you hate nex machina so much, for balance.

I'd never heard of it before, but I just watched a video, and, although I don't love the blocky art style at first glance, it does look like the kind of arcadey shooter I love. If it was on a console I owned and you truly recommended it, I'd buy it.

[Hecate]

I'd never heard of it before

Your witness!
No further questions.

[Kelvin]

It's funny, I was just rereading a few pages from the BOTW thread, and Falafel mentions how he finds it frustrating that it's just assumed gamers know how to do basic interactions in a game, when of course many people, like him, have never had to do it before.

Even in this thread, it's mentioned that people are expected to just know they have to run over gaps in the 2d Mario sections.

Not everyone has played games for 20 years, and Nintendo wants to make games that can be played by the very young, the very casual, and the very experienced. I think it's an interesting flip side to the argument that Odessey features too many tutorials - even if I don't expect or want everything to be explained that way.

[Hecate]

Remember when I said that dual analogue sticks weren't perfect and that replacing the right analogue stick with some sort of trackball setup would make a nice halfway house between the speed and precision of a mouse and the laid back relaxation of a pad?

Remember how I was laughed at and hounded out of the village?

Remember how valve released the steam controller and they all fucking bought it?
I didn't, of course, I've got a mouse, and a pad, I've absolutely no need for something in between.

Remember when I dipped my toe back into AAA gaming because of their hyped chattering, how I said about the tomb raider reboot "mash a and d to climb" :

"When I sit down to play tomb raider, I want tomb raider, a third person action puzzle/platformer/shooter. I want massive tombs to explore with challenging jumping puzzles and shooting the odd bat to break it up.

You take out the quick time events, the wow-cool cinematic bits, the handholding and the cutscenes and you're left with a shallow, wafer thin, barely interactive mockery of a game.

As a satire on the current trends in gaming, as an exaggerated parody of what AAA games will become in a few years if they carry on down this slippery slope of simplification, this is a masterpiece, as a game, it is fucking abysmal."

The favoured pricks disagreed and made a mockery of me?

I'm a passionate gamer who's fought of the front-lines of the very worst gaming forums, populated by the absolute toxic, bullying scum of this earth, I've earned my stripes, Trust me.

I've posted on gaming forums where you're considered an expert on shmups if you've played one once.
I've posted on gaming forums powered by inverted snobbery where you're considered a nazi if you've ever looked at a pc. Places where playing computer games on a computer is considered a hate crime.
This is real vietnam shit that is hard to undo.

If I'm being a hyper bollock, then I can only apologise, but try to remember that "I've played the new mario and didn't care for it, personally" is the alternative.

Look at you all, united in your hatred of me, reminding each other of why you love mario so much, pledging your undying elegance to toy company nintendo, isn't that more important that someone disagreeing with everything you've ever thought?

[colacentral]

I'm not sure what the GBA not being backlit has to do with my point that there's no precedent for Nintendo continually re-releasing the same game.

Remember when I

I don't know who you are.

You seem to have a persecution complex, which is making you take a contrarian view against the crowd which you think wronged you when they didn't give you positive karma for the forum post where you suggested adding a circle pad to the 3ds. I'd suggest just not worrying about it and enjoying what you like. I do - that's why I enjoy Mario games.

[The Boston Crab]

Morning, lads. Let's just say when I wake up and give the sign, it's time to to go to bed. Grab a Horlicks and I'll see you at tea time. Looking out for Technology 2018.

[Hecate]

I don't know who you are.

You know how Stewart Lee is funnier if you seen a lot of standup?

I'm more bearable if you imagine I don't exist.

[Hecate]

that's why I enjoy Mario games.

Super Mario Bros 2 is the best mario game.
I might be a contrary cunt, but I genuinely mean that. You try living with it!

[popcorn]

Not everyone has played games for 20 years, and Nintendo wants to make games that can be played by the very young, the very casual, and the very experienced. I think it's an interesting flip side to the argument that Odessey features too many tutorials - even if I don't expect or want everything to be explained that way.

But tutorials - text and videos explicitly telling you how to do stuff - have been demonstrated over and over again to be a weak way of teaching people how things work. In games and other areas.

People don't retain information by being told about it in advance. They learn through experimentation and repetition. It's especially jarring in a game like Mario, which is ostensibly presents a fun sandbox world but still makes you listen to a character reading from a textbook between levels.

It's basically the same idea as the old "show don't tell" maxim for storytelling.

It's especially tragic because Mario Bros World 1-1 is one of the most famous examples of teaching through level design. This video by Mark Brown demonstrates how Half-Life 2 does this. This Egoraptor video is a bit obnoxious but makes a good case for how Mega Man does it too.

[Hecate]

Compare also minecraft pc with the console version.

Simplified crafting and a fucking tutorial that goes against the ethos of the entire game.

Minecraft, a game that could never have blossomed outside of the fertile open platform of pc gaming, bought up and shat out by microsoft, like so many other once creative studios.

Fucking hate gamers.

You know how much fun it is to feel like you're a child again, exploring an unknown world for the first time? Making a chisel and kicking a sheep to death?
No, you don't, because you're a fucking gamer.

[Hecate]

"show don't tell"

(Narrows eyes at popcorn) Fury Road was just a 2 hour long, dull, lifeless car chase though, yeah?

[popcorn]

I feel like you're agreeing with me but I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about either, Hecate.