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Will Self

Started by Mobius, December 01, 2021, 11:26:13 PM

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Mobius

I'm a big Will Self fan. Loved him on Shooting Stars, love his little interview with Karl Pilkington. Read his "Dorian, an Imitation" book when I was a teenager and really really enjoyed it. Also comes across well on Newsnight and shit like that.

I like him using obscure words, and he just seems to be having fun most of the time but people take him as smug or elitist. I suppose he is in a way? But I don't know he seems like a genuinely alright bloke and whilst obviously intelligent and well read, it also seems to be a bit of a 'character'

Not really sure what the point of this thread is, just wondered what everyone thoughts on Will Self and also, which of his books are worth a crack?

mippy

He was, reportedly, a dick to hs ex-wife.

Twonty Gostelow

"I'm a cotton-headed ninny muggins!"

Love it!

Mobius

Quote from: mippy on December 01, 2021, 11:52:05 PMHe was, reportedly, a dick to hs ex-wife.

Ah fucks sake, close thread.

bgmnts

Quote from: mippy on December 01, 2021, 11:52:05 PMHe was, reportedly, a dick to hs ex-wife.

Nah that whole imbroglio was epiphenominal.

Twit 2

Didn't she also have a reputation for being unpleasant? I recall she publicly called him out for being petty about his possessions (he put stickers on stuff he wanted when they were getting divorced; she had cancer and bigger concerns than  that and felt he shouldn't be making her sort through his stuff...think I've remembered that right). Were there any allegations about abuse or anything substantial?

markburgle

I tried to read How the Dead Live and gave up on it, bit of a dumb premise for a book or at least an unsatisfying treatment of it, I thought. Don't know if that's considered a good one or not

Bigfella

I'm a Self fan too.  Should we be called the Self-ish? or the Selfies? Yeah, he uses his intelligence well, never malicious.  Entertaining bloke.  A transcript exists online of an argument between him and Richard 'Cunt' Littlejohn.  Cuntyballs was on the radio to plug a book and he started giving Self a hard time for being a former smackhead, without provocation.  As I recall,  Self kept his cool and showed up Littlejohn for being a nasty little snider.

Petey Pate

Quote from: Bigfella on December 02, 2021, 09:04:56 AMA transcript exists online of an argument between him and Richard 'Cunt' Littlejohn.  Cuntyballs was on the radio to plug a book and he started giving Self a hard time for being a former smackhead, without provocation.  As I recall,  Self kept his cool and showed up Littlejohn for being a nasty little snider.

Assuming this is the transcript here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1390395.stm

Mobius

Hadn't read that before, that's fantastic

pigamus

I went off him after he called Orwell a mediocrity.

The Culture Bunker

I remember reading a collection of his journalism when I was maybe 19 or 20 (actually, just looked over my shoulder and realised I still have it: 'Junk Mail') and liking it, perhaps because I'm a lazy twat too and I recognised a kindred spirit in that respect at least. Never really got into his fiction, though.

When he was on Room 101, I got the impression Paul Merton wasn't impressed by him, though I thought it was one of the stronger episodes because of Self. Was often good value on Shooting Stars too, especially in the pre-filmed sketches  ("You know, I've nothing in common with these folk...")

Retinend

Quote from: bgmnts on December 02, 2021, 01:10:14 AMNah that whole imbroglio was epiphenominal.

never gets old

Greg Torso

I don't really rate his writing, but I always enjoy seeing him and his person(a) playing up his false pomposity whilst angling his head at a perfect 45 degrees, whilst bulging his eyes out, the mad eyed stare case.

Twonty Gostelow

Quote from: Mobius on December 02, 2021, 10:35:30 AMHadn't read that before, that's fantastic

QuoteSELF: Well he doesn't say he's a human being, does he? He uses the classic form of demonisation which is to say he's a chimp, in other words he's bestial. So he's actually dehumanised the subject of his abuse before he even moves on to piling on the pejoratives, and I think that's very psychologically interesting, of course we're all familiar with the kind of people who demonise other human beings by turning them into bestiary...we all know who does that.

[long pause]

LITTLEJOHN: In the Psychiatrist's Chair with Nicky Campbell

CAMPBELL: Caroline Feraday has the travel.

First laugh of the day.

jobotic

Quote from: Bigfella on December 02, 2021, 09:04:56 AMI'm a Self fan too.  Should we be called the Self-ish? or the Selfies? Yeah, he uses his intelligence well, never malicious.  Entertaining bloke.  A transcript exists online of an argument between him and Richard 'Cunt' Littlejohn.  Cuntyballs was on the radio to plug a book and he started giving Self a hard time for being a former smackhead, without provocation.  As I recall,  Self kept his cool and showed up Littlejohn for being a nasty little snider.

yeah that was great. Is Littlejohn still about? He bullied a trans woman into killing herself, you'd think he'd be a hero to the Linehans of today.

Self does sound a little like the fashion designers on Knowing Me, Knowing You here though

QuoteWhat does it say on the passport - the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland - that is actual latest constitutional formulation of what Britain is. I regard myself as a citizen of an archipelago that happens to be called Britain.

dissolute ocelot

Some of his journalism is fun, and on panel shows and the like he's generally entertaining - I'd much rather watch him than the latest comedy hack.

But I think he's a very mediocre fiction writer. A classic example of how being able to write well has little to do with either how many big words you know or even how intelligent you are. Literarily, he seemed to progress from sub-Martin Amis nonsense to self-important pastiche modernism. He doesn't seem to have anything at all he actually wants to say, or any great interest in plot or character, he just feels being a literary novelist is something big and important to do. He's turned out better than the actual Martin Amis, I'll give him that.

Retinend

Quote from: dissolute ocelot on December 02, 2021, 11:33:41 AMSome of his journalism is fun, and on panel shows and the like he's generally entertaining - I'd much rather watch him than the latest comedy hack.

But I think he's a very mediocre fiction writer. A classic example of how being able to write well has little to do with either how many big words you know or even how intelligent you are. Literarily, he seemed to progress from sub-Martin Amis nonsense to self-important pastiche modernism. He doesn't seem to have anything at all he actually wants to say, or any great interest in plot or character, he just feels being a literary novelist is something big and important to do. He's turned out better than the actual Martin Amis, I'll give him that.

nail on the head

trying to come up with a joke about him being addicted to heroin and wanting to give him a "smack" when I read him, but it's not really working tbh

monkfromhavana

QuoteSELF: Does it turn into Tolstoy at page 205?

LITTLEJOHN: No it doesn't turn into Tolstoy. I don't set out to be Tolstoy. It is a much more complex book than that.

SELF:Than Tolstoy?

I had quite the little giggle to this.

pigamus


Retinend

Quote from: pigamus on December 02, 2021, 02:10:11 PMThis why the Orwell thing annoyed me so much
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/sep/01/will-self-george-orwell-supreme-mediocrity

thanks for reminding me 🤢

like, back off, bitch, no one is ready for your hot takes on actual class

The Culture Bunker

I think Self has used the "talented mediocrity" line a few times in the past, almost as praise of sorts, including himself in those it groups together. I remember a line from one of his articles, something like "The English love a talented mediocrity" - as in, someone with talent who doesn't rise - in profile terms - to the very top of their field in the manner of (for example) the Beatles or JK Rowling.

Of course, it doesn't really hold up to much scrutiny because Self himself has enjoyed a very successful career. Even if he's not a huge global name, he's still made a very good living from it. He's hardly someone who could never be arsed sending his work to a publisher and instead spent a life as a low-level office drone because it was all much less hassle.

poodlefaker

Dan Rhodes has written a satire of the publishing industry in which there's a characted called Wilberforce Selfram. "The effect is just hilarious" says David Sexton in the Sunday Times "I read this novel in one sitting, laughing like a banshee". Sounds shit.

pigamus

There are undoubtedly dullards and mediocrities who hold Orwell up as some kind of sage yet couldn't write a memorable sentence themselves to save their lives. But the idea that Orwell himself was mediocre is daft.

Elderly Sumo Prophecy

He looks like the sort of chap who enjoys doing really perverse stuff in the bedroom. Probably even takes his socks off.

BritishHobo

I never get bored of reading that transcript:

QuoteCAMPBELL: Neither did I get a chance to read yours Richard but that's not to say that I won't. But what do you make of what David Aaronovitch has said? It is front page in the Independent. He says Richard Littlejohn's novel is a 400-page recruiting pamphlet for the BNP.

LITTLEJOHN: What else do you expect from an overgrown student union leader who used to be a member of the Communist Party? I think it is a badge of honour to be attacked by people like David Aaronovitch to be perfectly honest. I might put it on the cover.

SELF: Well he is right.

LITTLEJOHN: Is he?

SELF: It is a 400 page... I've read 200 pages of it and that is a 200 page recruiting leaflet for the BNP.

LITTLEJOHN: Well, you can't comment until you have read the other 200.

SELF: Why? Does it suddenly turn into Tolstoy?

LITTLEJOHN: You'll have to read it and find out, won't you.

SELF: Well it won't take me long.

BritishHobo

Never quite know how I feel about Will Self. In terms of his actual opinions I always find myself agreeing with him, and his worldview. But then the entire way he carries himself and communicates seems almost as if were intentionally designed for the purposes of making people who share his opinions look smug, and elitist, and everything the right-wing accuses them of. If you told me he's actually a Daily Mail journalist gone deep undercover as an obnoxious stereotypical 'intellectual Guardianista metropolitan elite' character to make the left-wing look bad, I'd go 'ah yeah, that makes sense'.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I've always got the impression that he's the sort of person who would interrupt while you were watching telly, to tell you why whatever you're watching is rubbish. It wouldn't matter what the show was.

Cold Meat Platter

#28
The Mark François and Carol Vorderman confrontations were great as well.