Writing a stupid fucking book

[Poobum]

I'm having a go, problem is I want it to be good but I have no talent. A conundrum I've yet to solve.

[tookish]

I'm having a go, problem is I want it to be good but I have no talent. A conundrum I've yet to solve.

I genuinely think, as someone who wrote some pretty good short stories, and then a few totally shit going-nowhere meandering novels, it's more about graft, persistence, and reading your genre, than talent.

Making it good is about learning the craft, not being naturally great at writing. I recommend Bird by Bird and Steering the Craft as fantastic books on the skill building and graft of creating a novel. 

Then again, this might be bollocks. I haven't written a Good book myself. But I do think based on feedback that I may be on my way.

[bgmnts]

I'm having a go, problem is I want it to be good but I have no talent. A conundrum I've yet to solve.

Let me know if you figure it out!

[Jack Shaftoe]

You get good by writing more, it's boring but that's how it works.

[Good Hank]

I've been writing since I was 25, when I quit my job to travel round the World Cup in Germany and write a book about fan culture. I wrote and researched the book really quickly, but knowing nothing about publishing, I didn't know you really should have a book deal in place before jacking in your job and trying to be a writer with no contacts or anything.

Then I wrote another book, called 'A Boy in the Blackstuff', which was about a bloke who ran away from all his problems only to wind up having to do something dangerous for Irish gangsters. I loved it at the time but can't read it now even if I wanted to have another crack, because the writing is very shit.

Then I wrote another book, called Mr Perfect, which was about a bloke who discovers a list his girlfriend wrote before she broke up with him which detailed all his bad qualities. I got as far as an agent full with that, but they told me to work on the plotting and I just couldn't make it work. I now think it's a little problematic in theme but some of the jokes in it are really good. Can't see myself going back to it though.

I also wrote a book called The Sad Club, which I LOVED but is about 160,000 words in length and I either can't bear to cut it or I'm not a good enough writer to do it. What I liked most about it is the intertwining stories which lead into the main one so who knows, maybe it's a series of scripts? Anyway, lost my way with this one and made me question whether I'm actually cut out to write things.

The actual act of writing never worried me. I always knew plotting was what I was worst at (too many ideas, usually), but I thought at one stage it would all click. I carried on blogging and reviewing stuff, but then over lockdown, I made a flippant insult aimed at The Spectator, which to my astonishment led to Andrew Neil discovering said blog, labelling it "useless" and which encouraged a huge pile on by RW fanboys. Consequently, it destroyed any confidence I ever had in my ability and all of those ideas I had percolating needed to be absolutely beyond question perfect before I could even think about sitting down to write. The few articles I've published over the last four years have been polished and researched exhaustively and submitted through high anxiety. So the lesson, kids, is be careful with your snark.

Happily, I'm back to writing another novel now, or at least planning it, and it's nearing simplicity, which hopefully will get me to where I want to be.

[Oosp]

refining a lot of research work for publication. taken over half a decade so far. sick of it now.

the real joy is if the first is successful having to do the general audience version which as far as i understand it is just writing Care About My Opinions Pls for 240 pages then dying with a pop culture analogy between your teeth

Hehe. I know someone whose general audience publication (technically a book inspired by this person's academic work) actually made the person famous. Like, it's a deeply divisive/controversial book (e.g. no citations; rife with conflations and leaps; so much "both sides" framing that it should come with its own fishhook; numerous instances of, shall we say, previously published material) that addresses several hot-button issues. You probably know the book. I did not know how it would turn out as I wasn't privy to the central message until the thing was published. Crazy world

[Oosp]

I've written five books. One has been published. Two others are almost finished. (Edit: also did a zine and a serialised online project, but each had a different "feel" to that of Book Writing)

Writing is awful and I couldn't live without it

[Kankurette]

I've been told I should write a biography on Space and I seriously considered it, but decided not to because I'd never finish it. I'm awful at finishing fanfic. Good luck to anyone who does manage to finish a book.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

Hehe. I know someone whose general audience publication (technically a book inspired by this person's academic work) actually made the person famous. Like, it's a deeply divisive/controversial book (e.g. no citations; rife with conflations and leaps; so much "both sides" framing that it should come with its own fishhook; numerous instances of, shall we say, previously published material) that addresses several hot-button issues. You probably know the book. I did not know how it would turn out as I wasn't privy to the central message until the thing was published. Crazy world

does the authors second name begin with an N by any chance

[ElTwopo]

Here's a sneak preview of a book I wrote which I found at my parent's house over the weekend. It's called 'My News - 1984'

Last week on Monday I played with my football. Then I played The Hobbit on my computer. On Tuesday my Nana came and I watched The Man With The Golden Gun on my video and I had pancakes for tea. I sat on the organ stool. On Wednesday I went to town and got a new football. On Thursday my cousin came and he brought some computer games. We played 'Turmoil'.

Have that, Orwell.

[Oosp]

does the authors second name begin with an N by any chance

Spoiler alert

Interesting angle

[close]

[non capisco]

Here's a sneak preview of a book I wrote which I found at my parent's house over the weekend. It's called 'My News - 1984'

Last week on Monday I played with my football. Then I played The Hobbit on my computer. On Tuesday my Nana came and I watched The Man With The Golden Gun on my video and I had pancakes for tea. I sat on the organ stool. On Wednesday I went to town and got a new football. On Thursday my cousin came and he brought some computer games. We played 'Turmoil'.

Have that, Orwell.

Alright, David Peace.

[Midas]

will zelf

[BritishHobo]

I'm currently sending my first proper finished book to agents, still cocooned by the naive optimism that one will say yes next week and it'll be in Waterstones by Christmas and I can dive into my advance money like Scrooge McDuck. I've been working on it for about fifteen years. Deep down under the ironic confidence, I'm worried that in terms of plot/theme the book is a couple of years past its sell-by-date, and I've dragged my feet just that little bit too long.

Also mapping out plans for a second, separate book with (I think) a much more pitchable concept and clearer place in the market - which is a slightly frustrating corner to have put myself. But I am excited about it so hope to pull my finger out and be more disciplined with this one.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Good luck with it. My agent foolishly used the phrase 'bidding war' at a very early stage and I got really excited, only to have the manuscript rejected by twenty three publishers over the next nine months. He sent me a link to a spreadsheet which he updated as each rejection came in, so I could see people turning it down in real time, nice! It was quite good actually, you could see how about half the editors did actually enjoy the book, but it wasn't right for the direction the publisher was going in or whatever, so you took the rejection a bit less personally. Looking back at it now, obviously some just didn't like it.

'In all honesty, I've read a chunk but frustratingly, because it should be right up my street and I am a sentient adult (or so I've been told), I just didn't feel I was 'getting' it. Perhaps I was simply in the wrong sort of mood? I am sorry ... I think, for me, the overall conceit – fun though it sounds and undoubtedly is – was difficult to grasp and keep hold of.'

'...on reading it and reflecting, I just think it's a bit too "out there" for us here. We're looking for super-commercial fiction/crime/romance here at Boldwood and whilst Jack's writing itself is very accessible, I think the world-building is just a step too far for our more traditional readers.'

'I've had a good read of TITLE and I'm sorry to confirm I've decided to turn down. I enjoyed the read but didn't feel as engaged by it as I would need to to make an offer. It's also really important that this finds an editor with a really clear vision for how to publish. While I liked elements of this, I'm afraid I didn't quite get that here so I've decided to bow out.'

'While the concept itself is fascinating and the world that Jack has created here worked well as an intriguing backdrop to the central mystery, I wasn't drawn into the story as much as I would have liked. So while there was a lot to love about TITLE, I'm afraid that on this occasion we won't be taking it forward in-house.'

Also, I forgot there was one where the editor was really interested then suddenly backed down because:

'I'm really sorry but I'm afraid the conversations in house about the balance of the list and how Jack might fit onto that list as a new author have not come back with a positive result. We're careful to try and keep a balance between male and female writers and to represent writers from around the world where possible and with a schedule of only 24 books a year that sometimes requires very difficult decisions about books. I'm going to have to pass on TITLE. I'm sorry that this should be for reasons that aren't in the gift of the author to address'

Which contributed to me finding myself googling 'what is most painless death', which itself nudged me towards talking to a therapist, which was helpful in other regards, but yeah, that one stung a bit.

[Brass Moustache]

Anyone else written a book?

Absolutely fucking horrid, isn't it. But also very exhilarating.

I wrote a shite excuse for a novel during lockdown, but this one might be better, I think.

Anyway, I want to read YOUR books. Tell me about them please.

I've been writing one since before lockdown started.
Its a scifi novel with semi post apocalyptic themes.
Then a semi apocalyptic event happened.
Then i was like 'fuck lol'.

[lauraxsynthesis]

Haha. I started writing dystopian short stories last year and there's some mention of the pandemic in one of them. If I can be arsed I'll try to get them read or performed on a little local online arty radio station. They kinda take me to a dark place though when I work on them. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

The thing about going from short stories to an actual 80K+ novel *is that you have to start thinking about structure or the whole thing starts to fall apart or just feel narratively unsatisfying in a way that's hard to put your finger on, which is very dispiriting. Unless you're one of those vanishingly rare people who can make it up as they go along and come up with a workable first draft, you really need to plan it out so you have some idea where you're going but not so much you feel hemmed in.

I use Dan Harmon's Story Circle 101 thing, basically broke the story down into eight sections of about 11K words each, with a rough idea of how each section would move the story forward and went from there. Didn't have more than a paragraph on each section, it's not following a formula or anything (well, barely, but if you've watched Community you'll realise within that structure you can do pretty much anything), just means the story keeps moving forward.

Where that really paid off is when the editor and I had a zoom about the second draft, there was zero structural stuff to redo, which she said had never happened before. Tonnes of fiddly little things about getting confused about which character's POV we were seeing certain scenes from, some bits that needed clarifying, but absolutely no 'this bit needs to happen earlier' or 'this chapter goes on a bit', anything like that, I was incredibly relieved.

That said, it's quite a straightforward crime/thriller thing, just set in a world that's a bit different from our own, so if someone was writing more literary or experimental the structure thing might not matter so much.

* this now looks like I was responding to lauraxsynthesis, which I wasn't. It's great to read these things out loud though, you really get the rhythm of the writing and all that, s'fun.

[The F Bomb]

It sounds like if you want to get a book published, it better be a load of absolute shit with a plot that morons can follow. Ideally it should be about some crime or other.

[Jack Shaftoe]

Dammit, I should have pitched mine exactly like that.

[Good Hank]

I've latterly started using the Saves the Cat method to plot, although with limited success at the moment. It's helped me simplify ideas, which as mentioned is much more of a problem for me than the writing itself.

[Dex Sawash]

What were you doing instead while CaB was down this morning thread

[Jack Shaftoe]

Wrote another book

[FeederFan500]

I have a lot of respect for people that actually work through to produce a book given how much time it can take me to type five paragraphs. And because I find a lot of fiction competent enough but with no emotional pull whatsoever it stops me attempting anything myself.

[AllisonSays]

My (history) book is coming out in paperback in November so that's nice isn't it. Just in time for the dads at Christmas. They won't like it but don't let that stop you!

Now I'm trying to think of an idea for/get funding to research a new book, while my work tell me off for not having done so every three months, and I genuinely feel so unhappy about it, haha.

I've always wanted to write a novel but never got past the 'this is shit' stage. Maybe if I do get the tin tack for not having any historical ideas I can be an unemployed novelist instead.

[Cleveland Steamer]

Multiple times I have tried to write a stupid fucking novel, but my brain just won't get on any kind of narrative track. I get stuck writing nice satisfying sentences or toilet jokes rather than trying to build any kind of plot. So I'll have a location and a weird thing happening it, for example a street where people who live there wake up one morning and someone has built a huge black igloo at the end of the road and they're all going to go inside the igloo and something awful is going to happen to them. So I've got the idea but then I just want to loiter in the location I've thought of, so I'll write about what colour the trees turn when it rains or what accent the local cats speak with, and then I'll get distracted about whether or not an igloo is a problematic concept (I mean, it's probably better than a wigwam?) and what would it feel like to crawl inside a midnight black problematic concept and sleep for a hundred years and then I'm googling "are igloos racist" and then I'm watching a two hour video edit of trailers for 1980s Hong Kong ghost revenge movies and I haven't even introduced any characters yet. So I make up some dude, but by the time he's opened his front door and seen the igloo, I'm already bored of him. I don't want to describe his shit haircut or his stupid clothes and then I'm bored of it completely and I just want to describe in excruciating detail what it feels like when the trees drip paint on you as you curl up to sleep for a thousand years inside a cursed snow globe.