Gulf Stream: DEAD SOON

[BlodwynPig]

And that climate change has happen lots of times, including having organisms proliferate that created mass extinctions.  Its a rock hurtling through void the fact there has been an life ever is likely a bonus.

Life is fragile, it's a moment in time enjoy it whilst it lasts and don't waste it.

With this post I declare:
"Come annihilation, come death."

[idunnosomename]

Why do these threads always turn into a debate about vegetarianism? Yes, meat consumption has a comparatively larger impact on climate emissions, but it's a fairly minuscule piece of the pie.

what kind of pie

[selectivememory]

Can we agree that the planet is not going to die due to global warming? It's thrown out all the time and it is not true.

You do know the people who say this are using hyperbole, right? They don't think the planet itself is literally dying ffs.

[TrenterPercenter]

You do know the people who say this are using hyperbole, right?

People use hyperbole to create fear and anxiety in others to control them.  They use it to obscure and control arguments (for example GB/Fox News use hyperbole all the time it's not an excuse in itself). I'm not sure why this is something that should be defended.  In fact it is something lots of high level environmentalists have decried as it just creates apathy, distrust and extremely poor mental health for some people.

It also obviously misses the point Jaime is making about how anthropocentric this all is, it could well be that our fate as a super organism is to eradicate ourselves (more likely population waxing and waning over the longterm), we are not important in the grand scale of things.

[wobinidan]

People use hyperbole to create fear and anxiety in others to control them.  They use it to obscure and control arguments (for example GB/Fox News use hyperbole all the time it's not an excuse in itself). I'm not sure why this is something that should be defended.  In fact it is something lots of high level environmentalists have decried as it just creates apathy, distrust and extremely poor mental health for some people.

It also obviously misses the point Jaime is making about how anthropocentric this all is, it could well be that our fate as a super organism is eradicate ourselves (more likely wax and wane over the longterm), we are not important in the grand scale of things.

I'm sure you do this little party trick when someone says the high street is dying too. "The high street can't be dying, it's not alive. You moron. You cretin. Absolute fucking idiot piece of shit. The high street doesn't matter when the universe is actually 8 billion years old. High streets come and go all the time. The high street doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things."

And you are right, of course. But there's 'the grand scheme of things', ie; everything, where stuff just happens and none of it particularly matters because it's just a bunch of atoms moving around doing shit.

And then there's 'my reality', where things happen and I get to choose to care about them. For example, if something really horrible happened to you, you'd be crying and whining about it even though it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. Crying and pissing and complaining as if it actually matters, but it doesn't. Nothing that happens to you matters. So it's all fine. And I'll be here saying "well actually, in the grand scheme of things..."

[selectivememory]

for example GB/Fox News use hyperbole all the time it's not an excuse in itself)

We're talking about a bgmnts post on the Cookd and Bombd forum, mate. You don't need to patronise us. Everyone reading this thread understood what he meant.

[TrenterPercenter]

I'm sure you do this little party trick

What bizarre post.  Sounds like you need to chill out.  How much of that post is actually what I just said and how much did you invent? be honest.

lots of aggressive nonsense and fantasising about something horrible happening to me so I can be in your debt or something whilst going on about realities.....think I'll pass.

[TrenterPercenter]

We're talking about a bgmnts post on the Cookd and Bombd forum, mate. You don't need to patronise us. Everyone reading this thread understood what he meant.

Sorry I didn't see the post so I didn't know who said what.  Thread is getting shitty again I see as people can't take a breath.  Best left alone.

[Blumf]

Always did think the "We're killing the planet" argument was the wrong route, when a "We're fucking our cushy life" would, perhaps, get more people on board.

The people who respond to the 'planet' argument would already be in agreement, whereas the 'cushy life' argument would be more likely to draw in the rest.

[TrenterPercenter]

Always did think the "We're killing the planet" argument was the wrong route, when a "We're fucking our cushy life" would, perhaps, get more people on board.

I think this is what some environmentalists have been saying.  It's more relatable.  We know there is threshold of anxiety that switches people off because they either can't cope or conceive it.

[wobinidan]

Always did think the "We're killing the planet" argument was the wrong route, when a "We're fucking our cushy life" would, perhaps, get more people on board.

The people who respond to the 'planet' argument would already be in agreement, whereas the 'cushy life' argument would be more likely to draw in the rest.

I don't think life on earth is particularly cushy. There are too many horrible pricks that you have to share the planet with. But it turns out that even if you tell them that we're destroying our allegedly cushy life, a lot of them will just say "that's a problem for future generations so I don't care".

Even though it's a problem that's already happening now. A lot of parents don't care what's going to happen to their children, even. That all it took for them to stop caring about their children, the suggestion that they start driving a smaller car. Which validates what I was saying about the planet being full of pricks.

What we have is an incredibly shallow and materialistic society that thinks having possessions is equal to having a good life. Those are the same people who feel at war with attempts to reduce carbon, because they are so wedded to having a new car, a new phone, a big TV, all that shit.

What we should really be doing is offering people a better life in exchange for them giving up the materialism. So we force companies to make phones that last 10 years or more, cars that last 20 years, with all replaceable parts, they won't be as fancy, but they will cut down our emissions. Ban private jets (ffs please) and get rid of massively carbon heavy events like concerts and sports with 50k visitors. No one needs that. You don't NEED to see U2. And throw a heavy tax on beef.

In exchange for this horrific cut to quality of life, we need to offer shorter work weeks, make sure people have access to nature, let people have more free time to relax and build actual communities, make sure everyone gets healthcare that actually helps them, etc etc

It's not just about cutting co2 levels, we have to reorganise all our priorities and put things that just make pricks rich at the bottom, and things that improve quality of life for everyone at the top, while being aware that we have to not destroy all the living things on the planet.

But since we're not going to do that, because of all the pricks, I hope we blow past 6c warming and get it over with. Humans were never going to be able to figure this out. There's literally no hope for our species.

[tookish]

Sorry to drag up the veggie/vegan aspect thing but actually being puritan about how people reduce their carbon footprint and contribute to social justice is unhelpful and against the original vegan ethic, which is to do what you are able to prevent harm. I suspect that those who are saying vegetarianism is centrist also drink coffee, wear fast fashion, and browse this lovely website on a phone or computer made from animal parts and slavery.

I trust that you are doing your best, and that completely eliminating dairy and meat is what that looks like for you.

Can't you just trust that other people here are also doing their best but it looks different to your best?

Anyway, I'm obviously the best because I've never learned to drive. Thanks, schizophrenia, you're saving the planet.

[Minami Minegishi]

Tookish is right.

[TrenterPercenter]

Yup nailed it.

[wobinidan]

Can't you just trust that other people here are also doing their best but it looks different to your best?

Wouldn't the vegan argument be that people aren't doing their best? Otherwise you could say people who eat McDonald's every day are doing their best. But I wouldn't know because I'm a disgusting vegetarian that ate MURDER CHEESE today for breakfast.

[madhair60]

fantasising about something horrible happening to me

not the most accurate representation of wobindian's post

[tookish]

Wouldn't the vegan argument be that people aren't doing their best? Otherwise you could say people who eat McDonald's every day are doing their best. But I wouldn't know because I'm a disgusting vegetarian that ate MURDER CHEESE today for breakfast.

I think a lot of people probably would argue that others aren't doing their best. Some people may not be. I trust that most people are. A lot of people are so bogged down by disability or poverty or mental illness or exhaustion that maybe McDonalds every day is all they can manage right now. I try to trust that they are doing what they can with the resources available to them. Naive maybe. But better than assuming the worst.

For me, living an ethical life is about harm reduction to the best of your capability. My capability varies from day to day and I suspect so does everyone else's. I work hard to buy as much secondhand as possible, I research as many industries as I can, I avoid dairy and have eliminated meat from my diet for 20 years. But I sometimes get an Uber rather than the bus, or use chopped vegetables wrapped in plastic, because some days that is what I can manage to cook.

I may well be a centrist to some people but I am also one exhausted, severely unwell, and low income person, doing what I can to till the earth beneath my feet.

[TrenterPercenter]

I may well be a centrist to some people but I am also one exhausted, severely unwell, and low income person, doing what I can to till the earth beneath my feet.

You are also someone capable of empathy as evidenced below.

For me, living an ethical life is about harm reduction to the best of your capability.....A lot of people are so bogged down by disability or poverty or mental illness or exhaustion that maybe McDonalds every day is all they can manage right now.

You are definitely not the problem Tooks.

[touchingcloth]

Is there anything to be said for going on over to Mars?

[madhair60]

does "to the best of your capability" account for situations like - for instance - being unbelievably lazy and just generally - and this is just a random example, remember - not caring in the slightest about any of it

[TrenterPercenter]

Is there anything to be said for going on over to Mars?

Incredibly difficult but perhaps at some point in the next 300 years I suppose but why?  If it is all about sustaining life then we could isolate genetic material and seed it into space.  We know some extremophiles can survive in space.

I don't believe this is what all this is about though.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

i eat tofu to offset the fact that i post a bunch of doomerism online and reblog guardian articles of data cherrypicked to make it seem like 3.5 is locked in thereby reducing public will to regulate fossil fuel and invest in clean energy

[Video Game Fan 2000]

extremophiles

as these the men who cum to sonic the hedgehog

[Icehaven]

I can't drive, I never fly, I don't have children, I rarely buy new clothes and I live on an old boat which uses less gas and electricity in several months than a house uses in a week (and we don't even use much diesel at the moment as the rudder's buggered). Can I still eat meat and cheese and not feel too shitty about it?

[touchingcloth]

Incredibly difficult but perhaps at some point in the next 300 years I suppose but why?

Just a weak joke

But in all seriousness I think we should go to Mars. I'm using "we" in the sense of "Elon".

[TrenterPercenter]

Can I still eat meat and cheese and not feel too shitty about it?

No! I suspect you once felt the love of another human so in the pit with the rest of them!

It's an interesting thought though, "a morality score" cross an old lady across the road = 1 babybel, give plasma to a dying child = 1 hamwich. 

[TrenterPercenter]

But in all seriousness I think we should go to Mars. I'm using "we" in the sense of "Elon".

I hear you are intergalactic racist now Elon

[touchingcloth]

The world has ended so many hundreds of times already - for the trilobites, for the blastoids, for the dinosaurs, for the Romans, for the Maya, for the Aztecs - which I find comforting in a bizarre way. Weird to think that some day all of post-agriculture human civilisation will be compressed into strata of rock about five centimetres thick, and future archaeologists - whether mammalian or even terrestrial - might struggle to find out we ever even existed. A bit of a spike in polymers and hydrocarbons if you look closely enough, and a locally high but historically unremarkable concentration of CO2.

Dust, mate, that's what you are, just some bald dust typing away into your phone. Enjoy.

[BlodwynPig]

I think this is what some environmentalists have been saying.  It's more relatable.  We know there is threshold of anxiety that switches people off because they either can't cope or conceive it.

Optics mate. Gotta impress the BBQ and beige slacks crowd

[BlodwynPig]

The world has ended so many hundreds of times already - for the trilobites, for the blastoids, for the dinosaurs, for the Romans, for the Maya, for the Aztecs - which I find comforting in a bizarre way. Weird to think that some day all of post-agriculture human civilisation will be compressed into strata of rock about five centimetres thick, and future archaeologists - whether mammalian or even terrestrial - might struggle to find out we ever even existed. A bit of a spike in polymers and hydrocarbons if you look closely enough, and a locally high but historically unremarkable concentration of CO2.

Dust, mate, that's what you are, just some bald dust typing away into your phone. Enjoy.

The year is 4563.

"Hello TouchingCloth, reincarnation exists and unfortunately you've come back as a mutated humanoid destined to spend eternity in pain and anguish. Man City are still top of the league, so there is some order in this hellscape."