The Norm Macdonald Thread Over Here

[sevendaughters]

i find the idea of apologising to an self-selected offended mass that you never met really fucking weird.

[madhair60]

He apologised incorrectly.

I saw sites that like, broke the apology down word by word. Fucking unreal.

[Schnapple]

I'm sure they were able to move on with their lives, I would hope at least.

Maybe, but by all accounts, they are literally still recieving anonymous abuse. The hotel pair were told that if they ever were to report it, that they would "never work in this town again", that kinda shit. I'm not as furious about this as some, but his actions had a nasty trickle-down effect that he never acknowledged and arguably even fostered.

On the other hand, I'm not saying we've been robbed of fantastic comic voices in regards to these women, but it's unjust.

[BeardFaceMan]

i find the idea of apologising to an self-selected offended mass that you never met really fucking weird.

Not really, it makes perfect sense. That "self-selected offended mass" that you mention are his audience, the people who give him money to allow him to do what he does for a living. Of course he's going to let them in on his apology, he wants people to think he isn't a piece of shit so he can carry on working.

[lankyguy95]

Apologising is fine. He came across like he was minimising the trauma of victims. It's quite reasonable to expect him to withdraw that or apologise for it.

The outrage otherwise is ridiculous.

[up_the_hampipe]

Maybe, but by all accounts, they are literally still recieving anonymous abuse. The hotel pair were told that if they ever were to report it, that they would "never work in this town again", that kinda shit. I'm not as furious about this as some, but his actions had a nasty trickle-down effect that he never acknowledged and arguably even fostered.

On the other hand, I'm not saying we've been robbed of fantastic comic voices in regards to these women, but it's unjust.

One of them said she quit showbusiness because of the experience, right? Yeah, that was her choice, but if you do something so unpleasant that it affects someone to the point of abandoning a dream for their own well-being, that's a pretty heavy impact.

[BeardFaceMan]

I'm not acting like anything. I just don't believe they're suffering still. I don't want to give them so little credit to believe that they are so emotionally brittle that they were unable to continue with their lives as a result of what happened. I mean, when did it happen? It wasn't when Louis was a huge star as I recall, it was earlier in his career, so it was at least over a decade ago. I'm sure they were able to move on with their lives, I would hope at least.

It wasn't just the wanking (I'm guessing you're a man and that's why you can't see a problem with it, it was only wanking and they didnt get touched or anything), it was things like being threatened with not working if they talked about it, people like Jen Kirkman having to turn down work opportunities for fear of being wanked at. No one is saying these woman are waking up screaming every night with PTSD but to say their suffering is over when the wanking ended is a bit silly. And it had a knock on effect on women who weren't wanked at. Because he was doing it at work. Not sure why that bit keeps getting forgotten, it's important.

[Obel]

Maybe, but by all accounts, they are literally still recieving anonymous abuse. The hotel pair were told that if they ever were to report it, that they would "never work in this town again", that kinda shit. I'm not as furious about this as some, but his actions had a nasty trickle-down effect that he never acknowledged and arguably even fostered.

Yeah, I mean obviously I'm never going to defend that kind of thing. It's disgusting and another argument as to why twitter is a hellhole. I didn't mean to derail this into being a Louis topic either, my original point was more that people seem to be intentionally obtuse on twitter, or that they're in such a rush to make the first comment that they don't take the time to think.

My final point on the Louis thing is that I think it's possible to have a world where somebody can fuck up, even massively, and still attain reform and forgiveness and all parties move on. Maybe that's too optimistic, but the idea of a world where people, especially those not directly involved in the situation, insist that the suffering must continue forever is too depressing for me to deal with.

[sevendaughters]

Not really, it makes perfect sense. That "self-selected offended mass" that you mention are his audience, the people who give him money to allow him to do what he does for a living. Of course he's going to let them in on his apology, he wants people to think he isn't a piece of shit so he can carry on working.

That's not an apology then, it's a business strategy. And honestly most of these people who are criticising Norm here are absolutely champing at the bit to tell us how little they actually liked him already. It's an opportunist's banquet.

[BeardFaceMan]

That's not an apology then, it's a business strategy.

Which is why a lot of people thought his apology was bullshit and he wasn't really apologizing but just trying to minimize damage to himself. And why I said apologizing like he meant it would be a good start.

[BeardFaceMan]

Yeah, I mean obviously I'm never going to defend that kind of thing. It's disgusting and another argument as to why twitter is a hellhole. I didn't mean to derail this into being a Louis topic either, my original point was more that people seem to be intentionally obtuse on twitter, or that they're in such a rush to make the first comment that they don't take the time to think.

My final point on the Louis thing is that I think it's possible to have a world where somebody can fuck up, even massively, and still attain reform and forgiveness and all parties move on. Maybe that's too optimistic, but the idea of a world where people, especially those not directly involved in the situation, insist that the suffering must continue forever is too depressing for me to deal with.

Oh I agree that Twitter is a shithole that should be avoided at all costs and the idea that someone is banished forever, no questions asked, isn't helpful. The problem with Louis is that he lied about it for years when asked about it, when it finally became unavoidable he issued an apology that wasn't really an apology (the only time he's talked about it as far as I'm aware) and then a few months later he jumps up on stage and doesnt even mention it, just carrying on like nothing happened. Thats the problem.

[sevendaughters]

I just don't think there's anything to apologise for. I am not a huge fan and I disagree with him in part here. But christ if you have to run to the baying mob on your knees every time your opinion diverges, sheesh. If you are sincerely offended by what he says, don't support him. How is this so difficult? Make the art in the political package you (a generic you, not specifically BeardFaceMan) want to see instead of whining that someone else isn't doing it for you.

[DeGrise]

I'm not acting like anything. I just don't believe they're suffering still. I don't want to give them so little credit to believe that they are so emotionally brittle that they were unable to continue with their lives as a result of what happened.

I look forward to reading your book 'My extensive study of the impact and implications of sexual misconduct and how women should man up'.

Until then, I'll choose to believe that your beliefs have no validity at all.

[Obel]

I look forward to reading your book 'My extensive study of the impact and implications of sexual misconduct and how women should man up'.

Until then, I'll choose to believe that your beliefs have no validity at all.

Thanks bro! Likewise I look forward to reading your book "How I offer nothing of value to the discussion at hand and instead hide behind snarky comments"

[Cuellar]

Well that's an interesting point, I think. What would it take? I'd argue Louis has more than got what he deserved for his actions at this point. Unless you want him to get jail time or something? I imagine he has seeked out therapy for this as it's clear he has a problem. I'm curious what is the punishment you think is necessary for him to make things better in your eyes?

Sackcloth, ashes, a mild breaking on the wheel.

[Mr Faineant]

Oh christ, this shit again. Who gives a fuck? Let the man say what he wants. Outrage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice, and it's fucking annoying. I hope this show doesn't get reaction cancelled, I would be outraged.

[DeGrise]

Thanks bro! Likewise I look forward to reading your book "How I offer nothing of value to the discussion at hand and instead hide behind snarky comments"

If you are going to have a discussion about whether a punishment fits a crime, it's a bit weird to dismiss the suffering of victims based on something you believe without any scientific evidence, or any demonstration of expertise on the subject.

If you want to defend Louis CK and argue that he should be allowed to continue his career, then 'he was never charged with any criminal offence' is a much stronger argument than suggesting that stuff you reckon about victims should be considered a valid argument.

From my perspective, I think the pitchfork justice handed out to Roseanne was wrong, despite what she said being abhorrent to many. Louis CK can do one though, as he used his status to commit actual criminal offences.

Norm's point is largely about forgiveness and suffering in a social media age that doesn't necessarily fit the crime. But the stuff about victims at the end was - like yours - at best badly phrased, and at worst fucking stupid.

And that should be the end of the matter. Nobody got hurt. He said sorry. I can't afford to keep buying these bloody pitchforks.

[lankyguy95]

Oh man, listening to Norm on Howard Stern. Never heard him so sad.

Edit: And then Adam Eget came in and everything perked up.

[Famous Mortimer]

Oh christ, this shit again. Who gives a fuck? Let the man say what he wants. Outrage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice, and it's fucking annoying. I hope this show doesn't get reaction cancelled, I would be outraged.

If he can say what he wants (and he can) then...people who pay his wages are also allowed to express their opinion about what he says, right? How are we still having this fucking argument? I'm sorry all these women spoiled your entertainment choices by getting sexually abused by your favourite comedians.

[up_the_hampipe]

If he can say what he wants (and he can) then...people who pay his wages are also allowed to express their opinion about what he says, right?

They're not expressing their opinion as much as caving to the pressure of online backlash. I don't think Jimmy Fallon, for example, was disgusted by what Norm said, it was just to distance himself from something that would make him look bad. Especially after tussling Trump's wig.

But, yeah, people can be mad at Norm if they want. I don't personally think someone should lose their job for their wonky views unless they are seriously hateful.

[QDRPHNC]

They're not expressing their opinion as much as caving to the pressure of online backlash. I don't think Jimmy Fallon, for example, was disgusted by what Norm said, it was just to distance himself from something that would make him look bad. Especially after tussling Trump's wig.

This is a good point. I haven't read Norm's comments in full, so I'm not going to offer an opinion on them, but it says something about the modern outrage cycle that Trump can go on Fallon, but not MacDonald.

Although it's obviously something to talk about in a thread dedicated to Norm MacDonald, it's still part of the same thing. It flares up, and it goes away. None of the people currently losing their shit on Twitter about Norm's comments and subsequent apology are going to care about it next week, as it'll have been replaced with something else. In a month they'll barely even remember it.

More broadly, I wonder about the effect of constant outrage on the human psyche, as individuals and collectively. What did we do with our time before every fresh campaign of indignation arrived directly to our screens? There seems to be no spectrum of acceptability any more, everything and everyone is either good or bad, on or off. What's the effect of constant, long term exposure to the idea that human beings are binary creatures? I can't be the only person curious about the private lives and private thoughts of those who most vocally condemn even the most minor and inconsequential transgressions.

[lankyguy95]

Norm's appearance on Howard Stern today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_54VP3JCL0

It's long and rambling and goes off in different directions but they do eventually go into the controversy properly.

[Mr Faineant]

If he can say what he wants (and he can) then...people who pay his wages are also allowed to express their opinion about what he says, right? How are we still having this fucking argument? I'm sorry all these women spoiled your entertainment choices by getting sexually abused by your favourite comedians.

Of course, but who did he sexually abuse again?

Who is complaining that also pays his wages? Fallon? Has he complained?

[up_the_hampipe]

Norm's appearance on Howard Stern today https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_54VP3JCL0

It's long and rambling and goes off in different directions but they do eventually go into the controversy properly.

Great thanks, young Norm!

[up_the_hampipe]

Been taken off YouTube, you can listen here https://soundcloud.com/user-205953525/nm-hs/s-IdbI4

I loved Norm's Kinison story. "NOT CRASH JOHNSON!"

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Norm comes across as genuinely contrite in that interview. I believe him when he says that his thoughts were conflated in the article.

He strikes me as a nice, bright, sensitive man who doesn't really know how to handle serious discourse, in interviews at least. That's not his forte, but these days, everyone - even an eccentric comedian like Norm - is expected to have a fully-formed, binary soundbite opinion on major issues.

[Large Noise]

https://twitter.com/normmacdonald/status/964024730423455744

[Pdine]

https://twitter.com/normmacdonald/status/964024730423455744

So?

[sevendaughters]

https://twitter.com/normmacdonald/status/964024730423455744

ok so I saw a VERY similar one that someone retweeted about Tucker Carlson, I think he's doing a bit.

[up_the_hampipe]

Norm will be on The View today. He will apologise several times but no one will hear him over those yammering bitches.