Crown of the Soulsborne King - Ranking Fromsoftware’s Souls/Soulslike games

[druss]

Yeah, that particular Titanite Demon got cheesed. I don't know what they were thinking just plopping one in a spare bedroom like that where there's no chance of fighting it honestly.

Blows my mind a bit when people have a go at the hitboxes of DS2 when titanite demons in DS1 exist.

[druss]

Dark Souls

2011 sequel to the PS3 exclusive Demon's Souls. Originally meant to be called "Dark Race", can't think why they changed it, but on balance I think they probably made the right choice. For my playthrough I initially tried a fat roll only run thinking it would be quite easy due to poise being so overpowered, however it was harder than I expected but more importantly wasn't as fun as I thought it would. So after failing a couple of times on Ornstein and Smough I decided to restart and roll with a miracle and pyromancy only character – no other weapons other than quick slot items allowed.

[druss]

Atmosphere - 8.5/10

The game starts with what seems like a bewildering introduction full of ancient gods and dragons. I have to confess that the first time I saw it I didn't pay it much attention as all I knew about Dark Souls was "HARD GAME" and didn't think the story was going to be up to much. How wrong I was!

When you actually pay attention, the introduction does a great job of giving the world you are exploring a sense of history and when you finally get to meet all the lads in the cutscene it gives the fights extra gravitas. There aren't perhaps as many memorable bits of music as in Demon's Souls, partially because it feels like there is less music overall, but the score at Firelink is one of the best in the series and conveys a sense of warmth and safety (brilliantly subverted later in the game when you lose access to the bonfire). The warmth and safe feeling of Firelink shrine is such a great contrast to the rest of the game where you are almost constantly being attacked by enemies or the environment. The background music at the bonfire next to the fair lady is another highlight, evoking the mythical tragedy surrounding the Witch of Izalith and her daughters of Chaos.

Moment to moment, the game feels like you are taking part in an archaeological tour of a legendary land. The relative lack of music adds to the sense of emptiness and gives a bit of shock factor when bosses appear with thumping orchestras and choirs. The indirect storytelling through item descriptions and environmental cues also adds to this archaeologic feeling.

The game is just as diverse with its environments as Demon's Souls but manages to weave them together flawlessly into a single sprawling kingdom, simultaneously managing to keep the aforementioned lonely atmosphere whilst each new area feels fresh and exciting. There might not be anything as oppressive or horrific as the Tower of Latria from Demon's Souls, but despite the horror being more understated it is still there.

[druss]

Gameplay – 8/10

DS1 seems to have a reputation of having quite dated gameplay but it actually holds up remarkably well. The gameplay is much slower than later games but this is a design choice rather than an objectively bad gameplay criticism. Once you adjust to the slower controls then there is nothing fiddly or frustrating about them. The frustration comes from mistakes rather than any lack of robustness in the game's systems. If you button mash or hit roll too many times (a tactic that can be used to great effect in later entries) then you will most likely die, but if you are patient and deliberate with every action you take then you will be rewarded with a thoroughly satisfying and rewarding experience that can be played in a multitude of ways.

I mentioned at the start of this post that I first played as a tank character with only fat rolling. Essentially there are three types of rolls (and miniscule differences with different light rolls): light rolling, medium rolling and fat rolling. Light rolling is usually when you are wearing lighter armour and a lighter weapon, trading a little bit less damage mitigation when you get hit for less chance of actually being hit due to more invincibility frames when you roll and for being slightly faster in general. Fat rolling is when your armour and/or weapon and shield are very heavy, and/or you have not levelled your endurance stat sufficiently. Medium rolling is much more manoeuvrable than fat rolling but not quite as fast or as many iFrames as light rolling.

I didn't finish the game when fat rolling but it is still a viable strategy with a good shield. I've also completed the game with a medium rolling character in heavy armour and a big sword/club/axe, a light rolling character with a big sword, a light rolling character with a sword and shield, a light rolling character with a light sword and crossbow, a magic using light roll character using only sorceries, a level 1 character using pyromancy and a spiked club and most recently a light rolling character only using pyromancy and miracles. I'm not particularly skilled at these games so the above campaigns were challenging but also very doable which is a testament to how many ways you can play this game.

Levelling up is done at any bonfire, which is a much better system than the previous game but also necessary due to the design of the first part of the game where there is no warping between bonfires so it could potentially take a long time to backtrack and level up if they used the same system as Demon's Souls where levelling could only take place at the Nexus. This is the best system that Fromsoftware implemented to level up but bizarrely they abandoned it for the next few games.

Weapon upgrades are a bit of a mixed bag. Every weapon must be initially upgraded to +5 before being "modified" if you want to add elemental damage, or to continue with the weapon's standard damage. The confusion comes with the different levels that different weapons can be upgraded to after that and the different titanite that is needed to upgrade each type of weapon. For example, green titanite is needed to upgrade both fire and divine weapons up to a certain point, after which red is used for fire and white for divine. Lightning weapons just use regular titanite for some reason. It's not as bad as Demon's Souls but it is still a bit convoluted.

Later games might feel a bit smoother to play but Dark Souls is still no slouch in this category.

[druss]

World Building 10/10

The main story, lore and NPCs contained within Dark Souls are essentially flawless. The first time through is engaging but very difficult to really know exactly what is going on (unless you are far more observant than me) but it's on repeat playthroughs, when you tend to pay more attention to things like item descriptions, or statues, or enemy placements, that the genius of it all starts to click.

One example to illustrate this is the channeler enemy in Undead Parish. First playthrough I thought "Oh here's a tough miniboss" and didn't give it anymore thought. On subsequent playthroughs you might then read the item description on the channeler set found in the Duke's Archive which reads:

Helm of the Channelers, sorcerers that serve Seath the Scaleless. The six eyes arranged in two vertical columns compensate for Seath's lack of sight.
Apparel of the Channelers, sorcerers that serve Seath the Scaleless. Even after the onset of Seath's madness, the "snatchers," as they were often called, ventured to far lands to find suitable human specimens.

Okay, so now we know that Seath is blind and that he sends out these minions to search for human specimens. Who else ends up at the Undead Parish? Rhea ends up there. Where does Rhea eventually end up after this? Kidnapped, and taken to the Duke's Archive, presumably after being spotted by the very channeler you fight at the Undead Parish (if you've killed him before she ends up there then this is also explained by Solaire's explanation of the flow of time in Lordran being convoluted). You can even infer what the human specimens are used for when you fight the Pisaca enemies in the same room that Rhea's prison cell is located, two of which carry miracles which gives information about their origin too.

The entire game is jam packed with little short stories like this, some of which are self-contained and some which link to other quests and characters like the above. I can't think of another game in the series that ties everything together so well (although Bloodborne comes close) and creates such an intriguing and cohesive world. I'm not sure it will ever get this good again.

Best NPCS:

Solaire

The first character you are likely to meet who isn't a condescending prick to you. Almost feels like he is from another game at first with how positive he is, but as the tragedy of his quest unfolds it starts to feel more on theme with the rest of the game. As someone who always tries to have a positive outlook but also suffers bouts of crippling depression, his questline really resonated with me, particularly the voice actor delivery of the last words in the "bad" ending.

Petrus

Appears to be a stereotypical lawful good paladin type character when you first meet him. Turns out to be a total shithead and potentially a dark wraith, as evidenced by the stash you find behind firelink shrine. Everything with him and Rhea is gold and another example of an entire storyline that is hidden unless you happen to talk to Lautrec and pay him for a tip and talk to the Oswald of Carim.


Lautrec

Clearly an absolute shitheel from the moment you meet him but it is still a shock to lose your bonfire and incredibly satisfying to track him down and avenge and revive Anastacia.

Honourable mentions: Siegmeyer, Big Hat Logan, Laurentius, Quelana.

[druss]

World Design – 9.5/10

Dark Souls has near perfect world design and only loses half a point for the unfinished part of Lost Izalith where the weird dinosaur leg monsters are copy pasted everywhere. The rest of Lost Izalith is fine though (not a popular opinion). As much as I enjoy the later games in the series it does make me sad that this seems to be the last time where they created such a layered and harmonious game, perfectly mixing individual level design and themes with a cohesively linked world.

You start in a prison but once you are taken away from here you can essentially walk the entire length of the map from bottom to top. Warping is available later which was probably necessary for this gimmick to not become tedious in the last stretch of the game, but with the numerous overlapping shortcuts and the verticality of the world you can quite easily traverse it in a short time when you get to know it well enough (and you will die often enough to get to know it very well).

Worst area: Lost Izalith

The aforementioned unfinished section of this area automatically guarantees it a spot. I really like the area in spite of this though as I find the Witch of Izalith very intriguing and love all the lore with her and her daughters of Chaos. You also get the climax to a couple of great questlines here. There's not really any competition from other areas though (I like Tomb of the Giants now that I can traverse it) so by default the unfinished area gets the nod.

Best area: Undead Parish

This was the area where I nearly gave up with Dark Souls. I'd got to the big knight miniboss a few occasions and never noticed the path down to Andre. I was about to give up as it seemed impossible to get to this miniboss and kill him with the weapon I had seeing as even getting to him sometimes ended up in death and I was always close to or had no estus left. Then whilst backing up from him I discovered the path down to Andre and found the bonfire that saved my Souls journey and also a place to upgrade my weapon and be able to take down the knight.

There's also the joyful moment of opening the shortcut to firelink shrine, where the genius of the world design shines, plus the aforementioned environmental storytelling of the channeler and the start of Lautrec's quest. I don't think that Undead Parish is far and away the best area but the game is so good throughout that I really struggled to pick a favourite zone.

[druss]

Character customisation – 9/10

I've already written about the number of playstyles and ways to tackle the game. There are dozens more, some harder than others, that are all viable. You can be a magic user, a miracle user, a pyromancer, a light armoured and light weapon user or a heavy armoured and heavy weapon user and everything in between. You can even complete the game using bows only although this veers towards being a challenge run rather than a viable playstyle. If there was any criticism it would be that boss soul weapons are a little underwhelming and that there are more weapon choices and movesets in future games. What is here is mostly great though.

Best weapon – Zweihander. First weapon I completed the game with. I later also created a "Giant Dad" which was very fun and enabled me to actually win at PVP.

Best spell: Dark bead is the most powerful but I am a recent convert to Force, destroying my enemies by farting them off ledges.

[druss]

Bosses – 7/10
The visual designs are fantastic and there are a few interesting gimmicks to some of the fights too. But almost every concept that is used for a boss in Dark Souls is implemented better in later games (Friede in DS3 being a better boss than Priscilla for example). There are still some iconic bosses in Dark Souls, but overall this is a weaker entry in the series in this area, at least in terms of mechanics.

Worst boss - The Bed of Chaos

Visually and thematically this is fucking amazing. Just look at it. Unfortunately the mechanics are almost broken and I keep finding new levels to its bullshit. On my most recent playthrough I had already died a few times by being smashed off the edge as I wasn't using a shield, but after eventually killing both the side branches I successfully made the jump to the middle bit, only moments later to be unceremoniously smashed off again as I tried to triumphantly make my way to kill the little bug. Miyazaki's thoughts on the matter: "my greatest regret... is the Bed of Chaos".


Top 5 bosses:

5. Bell Gargoyles

Early in the game, this fight seems almost impossible. Then just when you've started to figure it out and feel you might kill him this time, his cunt mate rocks up. Iconic moment and boss in the series.
 
4. Kalameet

It took Fromsoftware a while to get dragon fights consistently right but they definitely managed it with Kalameet. Some of his animations look a bit silly but the mechanics are mostly solid (his forward swipe has a bit of a bullshit hit box but can at least be avoided if you keep your distance and roll backwards) and the cutscene you get after asking Hawkeye Gough to help you out is brilliant.

3. Sif

Seems like a decent fight mechanically but essentially you don't really need to do anything other than stand underneath her and smash away. Gets the number 3 spot for the limp she does when she is nearly defeated plus all the lore surrounding her and Artorias and the alternative cutscene you get if you do the DLC first. Also great how she has a similar moveset to the second best boss...

2. Artorias

You have heard his name at various points throughout the base game and then finally come face to face with the hero of the abyss, only to discover that he has been warped and lost his sanity to the dark. Wonderfully satisfying and fair fight to learn. I took it for granted on this playthrough as I hadn't died to him for ages. I can confirm that you will die horribly multiple times if you take him for granted.

1.    Ornstein and Smough

The climax of Anor Londo and still the most balanced duo fight in the series. Seems impossible to defeat them without a summon at first and no cakewalk even with a summon but with patience and perseverance they are a fun boss to learn and feel suitably epic for this point in the game. I still get chills when I beat them as it still always feels like an achievement and a huge hurdle.


Final score:
52/60
An early frontrunner and will be difficult to catch I suspect.

Next up, the supposed black sheep of the series: Dark Souls 2.

[Barry Admin]

Yeeeeehaw, read some but saving the rest for tomorrow, looks great.  Good night!

[Noodle Lizard]

Lovely stuff, @druss - hard to disagree with any of it. I'm going to do a fresh playthrough with a different build soon, because I still don't feel like I've fully completed it (missed/ruined questlines, seemingly overleveled for the DLC, never even got to Ash Lake after getting twatted by a mushroom right at the bottom of the Great Hollow).

Looking forward to seeing what you make of DS2 this time round. That's one I don't especially want to play again any time soon, but it was much better than expected.

[jimboslice]

It is not! It is only accessible after you defeat the boss.

You're gonna have to tell me, I'm too dim to even Google effectively.

Beat the stupid demon and finished off Ornstein & Smaugh (Had a few goes solo, but brought in good old Solaire of Astora in the end). Died a lot more to the demon.

Not sure what to do next but I'm going to warp about and chat to all my mates and maybe farm some slugs so that I can upgrade a few other weapons.

[jimboslice]

Also really good write-up.

My only niggle is that "Character customisation" gets a full 10 points as a category. This is surely only done so that you can mark down the greatest Soulsborne game, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

[druss]

You're gonna have to tell me, I'm too dim to even Google effectively.

Beat the stupid demon and finished off Ornstein & Smaugh (Had a few goes solo, but brought in good old Solaire of Astora in the end). Died a lot more to the demon.

Not sure what to do next but I'm going to warp about and chat to all my mates and maybe farm some slugs so that I can upgrade a few other weapons.

You know that beautiful princess who gave you the Lord vessel? Chuck a throwing knife at her or shoot her with an arrow. Not a big hit, just a little one.

Also really good write-up.

My only niggle is that "Character customisation" gets a full 10 points as a category. This is surely only done so that you can mark down the greatest Soulsborne game, Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice.

It is a tough one, because builds and customisation are an important part of a soulsborne game to me as it adds to their replay-ability. So either I don't count Sekiro as a soulsborne game or I do count it but it inevitably gets a hit in that category. I haven't played Sekiro for nearly two years and I want to replay it again so decided to include it!

There are individual awards for the highest scoring game in each category so Sekiro still has a very good chance of winning at least one of them...

[druss]

Lovely stuff, @druss - hard to disagree with any of it. I'm going to do a fresh playthrough with a different build soon, because I still don't feel like I've fully completed it (missed/ruined questlines, seemingly overleveled for the DLC, never even got to Ash Lake after getting twatted by a mushroom right at the bottom of the Great Hollow).

Looking forward to seeing what you make of DS2 this time round. That's one I don't especially want to play again any time soon, but it was much better than expected.

Shieldless is always a very different playthrough, poiseless as well if you want to fight the bosses without handicapping them at all.

One thing I didn't mention actually is the inbuilt difficulty slider, which is basically summoning and poise. These things don't make the game trivial but it does make almost every boss (apart from possibly Manus) doable no matter what your skill level. It's a really nuanced way to make things a bit easier without feeling like you've clicked down on a difficulty slider meaning you still get that feeling of satisfaction without artificially changing the mechanics of the game.

I was enjoying DS2 but then I got my desk set up and went on a Civ IV binge. I think I've got it out of my system now so will get back to it. It doesn't feel as shitty to play as I remember, which I'm partially putting down to how much of a slog I found the PS3 version of Demon's Souls to play. Can't see it beating DS1 in any category other than character customisation though.

[Noodle Lizard]

Watched Limmy defeat Sister Friede on his third go (!) and then shite it and give up on Midir.

[how do you like apples]

Friede has always been the hardest DS3 fight in my opinion but that's because I have always preferred to rigorously learn movesets to try and get into a dance with the boss. When I saw Limmy playing with his heavy load fatsuit and health bar off the screen I knew he'd probably be able to brute force most things in the game. Midir definitely doesn't lend itself to that playstyle though.

[Noodle Lizard]

It almost makes me angry to see, considering how long I spent on her first time around. I just recently fought her again on NG+4 and it still took a good 10 tries!

Probably for the best, though. If he'd gotten stuck on her, I expect he'd have binned it before The Ringed City.

[jimboslice]

Friede was a great fight, took me ages too though.

I also gave up on Midir after not too many efforts. Was just a bit of a slog, and I kept dying in frustrating ways.

You know that beautiful princess who gave you the Lord vessel? Chuck a throwing knife at her or shoot her with an arrow. Not a big hit, just a little one.

You bastard. Now I've had to kill the Anor Londo firekeeper too. I can't believe you've done this.

[badaids]

I'm going to get Sekiro a on the strength of this thread but it's like rare as hen's teeth second hand and goes straight away, or if you can find it it's being sold for between 40 and 70 sheets round my neck of the woods.

Wha'happen?!

[Noodle Lizard]

Friede was a great fight, took me ages too though.

I also gave up on Midir after not too many efforts. Was just a bit of a slog, and I kept dying in frustrating ways.

You bastard. Now I've had to kill the Anor Londo firekeeper too. I can't believe you've done this.

Hey, you get a nice tasty firekeeper soul out of the deal!

There's another bonfire in Anor Londo anyway. In fact, it might be a good idea to have a poke around near it.

[oggyraiding]

I'm going to get Sekiro a on the strength of this thread but it's like rare as hen's teeth second hand and goes straight away, or if you can find it it's being sold for between 40 and 70 sheets round my neck of the woods.

Wha'happen?!

Even if you go digital on the PS/Microsoft store, I don't think I've seen it drop below £30 even though it's been out five years. When I bought it second hand from CEX this year, I paid £40.

[badaids]

Even if you go digital on the PS/Microsoft store, I don't think I've seen it drop below £30 even though it's been out five years. When I bought it second hand from CEX this year, I paid £40.

Roger that, thanks.  I guess it's supply and demand.  Is the game that good?

[Pink Gregory]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes

[Barry Admin]

Roger that, thanks.  I guess it's supply and demand.  Is the game that good?

It's alright, another one I abandoned.  My second attempt at a playthrough was more successful and I had more fun and got further.

I like the boss fights in Dark Souls, but at the same time I can find boss fights a bit wearisome.  I get bored trying to learn their patterns and shit, it's just difficult for me.  Sekiro felt bastard hard and complicated when it came to that stuff, I think. 
And trying to get off the riposte-style move all the time maybe got a bit boring?

Will say that Artorias in NG+ DS1 last week was great.  Once I realised I could and should rush him down when he's buffing, it became easier and I think fairer. 

[druss]

He looks scary as fuck when he is buffing though, I don't think I've ever even thought of rushing him.

[Barry Admin]

He looks scary as fuck when he is buffing though, I don't think I've ever even thought of rushing him.

Black Knight Halberd sure helps, I don't think it breaks his buff unless you do enough damage.  Was a more fun fight than when I did him with the Zweihander in previous goes.  Still can't believe I've got multiple (well, two, almost three) completions of Dark Souls now. I neeever do another playthrough of a game, especially something long-winded like an RPG.

Must check Artorias' different sword models, I'd never noticed the uneven hilt before or what looks like some kind of (birds?) face:




Awesome fan art from fextralife - https://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/file/Dark-Souls/hd_artorias_fan_art.jpg?v=1529079881702


So all the swords round his grave are from the previous attempts, and Sif must have picked them up and smacked them into the ground like heads on sticks.

[Noodle Lizard]

How far did you get in Sekiro, out of curiosity?

[Barry Admin]

How far did you get in Sekiro, out of curiosity?

Couldn't quite remember but just looked up a guide:

Spoiler alert

Got to this bit where I went back in time or something.  Trying to get into some castle, near a bit where you swim about and there's a boat and weird fish.

[close]

[Noodle Lizard]

Couldn't quite remember but just looked up a guide:

Spoiler alert

Got to this bit where I went back in time or something.  Trying to get into some castle, near a bit where you swim about and there's a boat and weird fish.

[close]

Ah, that's before the "click" point for many people. I gave up there too on my first go round. Give it another chance!

[jimboslice]

Nearly finished this now. Have got all 4 map pieces so I can set pop them in the Lordvessel at some point and presumably sail to Dinky Island. Have been getting stuck into the DLC (obviously had to google how to start the DLC). Beat the Guardian first time, really enjoyed Artorias, made my way to Manus what felt like too quickly and got my arse handed to me. Figured I'll do a bit more exploring, maybe see how I can fight the dragon - hopefully it's easier than Midir?

I reckon the biggest thing this game has over DS3 is the impressive interconnectivity of the world. Adds a lot more than I expected - finding a shortcut is more satisfying than in a self-contained level, learning your way around feels great, and deliberately taking you back through parts of areas that you struggled with before helps show how much you've improved. Bloodborne comes close, though.

This game does seem to have a lot of bullshit moments though. Wizard lizards knocking you off narrow walkways, toxic dart wankers, multiple archer knights knocking you off narrow walkways... If I had to beat the Bed of Chaos in one go I would have almost certainly given up there. Had a few days where I lost interest and just couldn't be arsed to head into the Demon Ruins, but in the end it was one of the more straight forward areas of the game. Feels good to be at the end though, I reckon the last boss is going to be a PUSHOVER for me and my big Claymore.