Associates/Billy MacKenzie

[SavageHedgehog]

Anyone else a fan? Only band I'm sad enough to own a demo collection by! To be honest that's actually got some really good songs on it (Shadow Of My Lung, Saline Drips, Geese). Anyway, I got hooked after I saw the Breakfast video when I was 15, sadly Billy MacKenzie had already been dead for five years by that point. Their albums are generally a little patchy, but even the stuff that doesn't quite work is either interesting or pleasent.

I'm also reading bits of Billy's biography by Tom Doyle at the moment. It's not great, but it's not bad and I'd rather have it than no book at all.

[Toad in the Hole]

They're a band who I don't know much of their stuff by, but what I do know I like, for sure.  Time for a reappraisal, perhaps.  Also have the Haig / Mackenzie album somewhere (Memory Palace, iirc), which is rather more lo-fi.

Not the appropriate thread, but where would you suggest starting as a newcomer, SavageHedgehog?  What are your personal highlights on the main studio albums such as Sulk?

[SavageHedgehog]

Well Sulk is almost certainly the best album, although many would make the case for Fourth Drawer Down, a collection of singles the released for an indie label inbetween thier first two "proper" albums. And I have a real soft spot for Perhaps. To be honest there is a Singles collection which does probably contain most of the real high points (don't own it myself), but anyway here are what I consider the best tracks from their albums:

The Affectionate Punch
A Matter of Gender, Even Dogs in the Wild, A, The Title Track

Fourth Drawer Down
Tell Me Easter's On Friday, White Car in Germany, Blue soap (Just Because it's a real oddity)

Sulk
All of it, but especially the singles (including the bonus tracks with the double A-Side Love Hangover/18-Carrot Love Affair), the cover of Gloomy Sunday and Skipping

Perhaps
First album after Rankine left. Nice album, more accessible than previous work without being too MOR. That said only the singles (Those first Impressions, Waiting for The Loveboat and Breakfast) will stand out to non-fans, though they are well worth the price of the album (a double pack with the album below). A lot of fans find Helicopter Helicopter annoying but I like it.

The Glamour Chase
The "lost" album, completed in 1988/9 and not released until 2002. More creative than Perhaps, a nice listen, but to be honest only Yello collaboration the 1985 single Take Me To the Girl, Country Boy (which some will certainly hate) and the Heart of Glass cover really stick in my mind.

Wild and Lonely
Very slick late 80s/early 90 production which might put some off. Gorgeous artwork all round. Highlights are the singles and the bonus track Fever In The Shadows which I believe was covered by Saint Etienne .

Double Hipness
A double-disc collection of demos, so will only be of interest to serious fans straight off the bat. As I said though, some really good songs particularly, Shadow Of My Lung, Do The Call Girl, Saline Drips, Mortice Lock, Geese, International Loner and Stephen You're Really Something. The sound quality on the earlier tracks are really good, and excellent on the tracks from the 1993 reunion.

Don't own Outernational sadly, but I do have the twelve inch singles released from it and they're very good. Also have Beyond the Sun and some of the Haig tracks, but am not really familiar enough with them to comment.

There are two versions of Punch BTW. The 1980 original, and a more "accessible" version, re-mixed and with some overdubs and re-recordings, made in 1982. The later version was the first to be released on CD. They were kind of ashamed of it, but some fans argue it actually brought the album closer to their "vision", whatever that was. I have no problem with it, not least as I managed to find it for £2 on before the original version had even been re-released (I have the 1980 version on Vinyl). Some tracks like Dogs are obviously worse but other tracks like Gender work really well. And I think the version of the title track is actually a little better.

Apologies for the long, rambling post.

[Neville Chamberlain]

I only own Fourth Drawer Down and Sulk. Both are excellent, but Sulk in particular is brilliant. The tracks Bap De La Bap and Skipping are absolutely essential listening!

Sorry, that's all I can say about The Associates. I haven't listened to both albums in a while now!

[Danger Man]

I only own Fourth Drawer Down and Sulk. Both are excellent, but Sulk in particular is brilliant. The tracks Bap De La Bap and Skipping are absolutely essential listening!

Couldn't agree more.

Though the reissue includes 'Love Hangover', making it almost perfect.

[Banbury Cake]

I'd hate for any prospective Associates fans to miss out on the Radio One Sessions too - some of the most glorious music Mackenzie and Rankine ever produced.  There's a version of what would become 'Arrogance Gave Him Up' on Sulk called 'Me Myself & The Tragic Story' which runs rings around the album version. Similarly, the Peel session of 'Nude Spoons' just about pips the Sulk mix.  There's also Mackenzie's take on 'God Bless The Child' and another mini masterpice 'This Flame' that don't appear anywhere else, and feature two of his finest vocals ever.  Even his rendition of Simon Dupre's 'Kites' sounds skyscraping. Totally essential.  They were originally released on one disk then separated a few years later with extra tracks.

Don't miss 'The Rhythm Divine' from 'The Glamour Chase' either - astonishing vocal and the best Bond theme that never was (but that's another thread).

I could go on...

[SavageHedgehog]

I'd hate for any prospective Associates fans to miss out on the Radio One Sessions too - some of the most glorious music Mackenzie and Rankine ever produced... They were originally released on one disk then separated a few years later with extra tracks.

Don't have them and I believe all three discs are unfortunately difficult to come by these days.

[TJ]

You may be interested to know that there's an excellent fan-compiled DVD of promo videos, TV appearances, live footage et al out there, which was put together by a friend of mine at the instigation of Alan Rankine and with the full approval of the Mackenzie family. No details a la forum rules, but a bit of Googling should point you in the right direction...

[SavageHedgehog]

Does it have the documentary which was aired on BBC soon after his death? That was on YouTube about two years ago. I decided to leave watching it until later. It is now, of course, long gone. Possibly my biggest YouTube-related regret, and there are many believe me.

[Banbury Cake]

The link to find the DVD is here:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=51095580&blogID=326117800

It doesn't feature the documentary you mentioned, but all of the clips that comprised it are either on the DVD or YouTube, by and large.

As an Associates fan for over 20 years, it's just wonderful that this stuff has finally seen the light of day. Some time shortly before Billy's death, I was putting a promotional CD together for a client of mine and had to deal directly with Judd Lander, then Head of A&R at Warners.  I couldn't help but take the opportunity to berate him for the dearth of Associates material available at that time (even Sulk was out of print) and I even got so far as compiling a wish-list of reissues for him.  As it happened, after Billy died it turned out that Warners didn't actually own the rights to the recordings any more, so apologies for the ticking-off, Judd.

[Paranormalhandy]

I remember being in Dundee when his funeral was happening.  There seemed to be a gathering (pre-wake) at Bonar Hall and then hundreds of people going down to the chapel on the Nethergate beside the DCA (or where the DCA would be).  I also remember seeing him at Dens Park for the dog racing, round about 1993/4, and once saw him walking his dogs at Broughty Ferry beach.  His biography is a great read, and for anyone with Dundee connections is a pretty decent evocation of the city (skinhead clubs and boutiques on Victoria Road) in the 1970s.

[Ramses VIII]

One of my favourite bands from the 80`s ( although I never quite got them at the time-too busy jumping around to madness at School in them days). Interesting rip off `fact`- take a listen to the intro to Club Country on `Sulk` and then listen to the intro to `Meat is Murder` by the Smiths