Crown of the Soulsborne King - Ranking Fromsoftware’s Souls/Soulslike games

[druss]

Inspired by Noodle Lizard's recent thread about Dark Souls 2 and further inspired by Barry Admin and others' adventures in Dark Souls 1, this thread will look at Fromsoftware's Soulsborne games, ostensibly to discover which game is king, but in reality I mostly just hope it generates discussion as I enjoy reading other's thoughts on the games as I can't write as thoughtfully and eloquently as some.

I'll give a brief synopsis of each game and then discuss and score out of 10 according to the following categories:

Atmosphere
Gameplay
Story (including lore and npcs)
World design
Character customisation
Bosses

Multiplayer/pvp (bonus category which won't count towards final mark as Sekiro has no multiplayer)

Open to suggestion about any further categories but I feel like six is a good number. Will also do a favourite/least favourite area and boss.

Counting the PS3 and PS5 versions of Demon's Souls as the same game as mechanically they are essentially identical, but I'll point out any meaningful differences. Same with both versions of DS2. Full list of games to cover:

Demon's Souls
Dark Souls
Dark Souls 2
Bloodborne
Dark Souls 3
Sekiro
Elden Ring

I'll do a fresh playthrough of each game before posting about them, albeit slightly cheating as have only just finished DeS and DS1 again recently. I have completed mild challenge runs of most of the games and platinumed all of them but I am by no means an expert, particularly with PvP, so further thoughts and comments are most welcome and if anyone wants to do a similar rating or assessment of the games then I'd love to read them.

That being said, the game with the most points as allocated by me will be officially crowned as the King of Souls at a ceremony in Tokyo, with official sanctioning from Miyazaki himself. Awards will also be given out for the highest score in each category.

I'll aim to put up a main post about each game roughly once a fortnight.

Demon's Souls is first up if anyone wants to play along.

Edit: Added bosses category and made PvP a bonus category as Sekiro is single player.

[The F Bomb]

Looking forward to it, king.

[The Crumb]

How will you be deciding build for each game? That affects the experience quite heavily.

[bgmnts]

Great idea. Might play along and see if I can actually get somewhere in these fuckers.

[Noodle Lizard]

Great idea. Might play along and see if I can actually get somewhere in these fuckers.

Do it! I don't know if starting with Demon's Souls is ideal, but maybe there isn't an ideal one to start with. Just know that a lot of the more tedious aspects of DeSo were abandoned in subsequent games, and the boss design changed to be more focused on combat than puzzle solving.

[druss]

How will you be deciding build for each game? That affects the experience quite heavily.

I've gone through each game with most main builds (strength, dex, faith, magic etc) so I'll try and do something I've not done before. Demon's was with only using daggers and fast swords (ie no big fuck off swords), no shields and a crossbow (used a bow to shoot items in latria as couldn't target with crossbow).

Great idea. Might play along and see if I can actually get somewhere in these fuckers.

Great! Demon's Souls has a very high initial difficulty curve but the bosses aren't as hard as in other games and as Noodle Lizard says there is usually a trick to them. Picking Royal as your starting class is quite a good initial playthrough as it is quite forgiving if you throw some magic in there. You can't level up until you beat the first level and Royal gives you the best chance and you can always go a different path once that first level is out of the way.

Demon's Souls is overall very good and 4 out of the 5 worlds you visit are excellent. Unfortunately the second world is significantly weaker than the rest of them imo.

[druss]

Any thoughts on the PS3 vs PS5 version of Demon's Souls? I've played both and in short I feel like the graphical and ease of use make the remake better to play than the more atmospheric original. I also think the superior atmosphere of the original is a little exaggerated in the discourse about the differences. From memory I was quite underwhelmed by the Storm King and Flamelurker fights in the original as I think the more epic music of the remake suits the fights better.

Decided I should probably replay the PS3 version as well to avoid any serious controversy. 

[The F Bomb]

I prefer the PS3 original purely for the atmosphere, music and designs. I do think it's significantly better in those respects. The music, in particular, got a real downgrade for me, bit more generic bombast.

I'd play the remake 99% of the time though, given the choice, because of the 60fps and simple accessibility of not having a PS3 set up any more. It does look beautiful, it feels identical or better and the QoL changes are much appreciated.

It was also my first Souls game and I still remember my excitement and nervousness in the face of impenetrable hostility and confusion. Inching my way through without any guides or any awareness of the systems is one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. I remember beating the False King after about twenty attempts and ten levels sucked out of me (didn't actually realise until I went to level up after multiple deaths). I remember the euphoria and bafflement and not actually knowing what to do next to finish the game. It's perhaps the most gimmicky, platformy, puzzley these days and can be frustrating in that respect but it basically hit the ground running and is pure unfiltered debut album kitchen sink energy.

[druss]

I think which game you play first probably informs opinion on the atmosphere of the remake. The remake was my first experience with Demon's Souls and I thought the overall atmosphere, in particular areas like the Nexus, Shrine of Storms, Valley of Defilement and Latria, was maybe the best of any souls game. Didn't necessarily find those areas a complete downgrade in the original but I was a little underwhelmed after hearing how much better the original was supposed to be in this regard. The music is definitely better in the original though (apart from Storm King and Flamelurker, those fights felt like a damp squib after the remake but again, had I played the original first it probably wouldn't be so jarring).

I'll probably have more thoughts after I replay the original but ultimately I'm glad both exist as like you say the remake goes for more bombast which sometimes works but is definitely less unique than the vibe of the original.

[The F Bomb]

Really looking forward to hearing your thoughts as you get stuck in. I might replay the remake at the same time, but not got as much opportunity as I'd like at the moment.

I think another factor for me is I haven't been back to the PS3 version since playing the remake a couple of times. I doubt it would stand up to my memory but rather than destroy something I've preserved and remember fondly, I'm happy to keep that alive.

[druss]

Decided to keep a tally of which areas/bosses were better for me on original vs remake. Won't be able to play much for a week after tomorrow but at the moment we are all square.

Better in the original:
Menu cutscene
New character cutscene

Better in the remake:
Vanguard
Nexus

Neither better nor worse:
Tutorial

Just about to go out now but having loaded up 1:1 I think it might be an L for the remake.

[druss]

1:1 was a big win for the original. Always find it a bit of a chore in the remake but despite the old graphics it felt more like a castle and less like a video game level than in the remake so I very much enjoyed exploring. The only caveats were that the dregling merchant voice actor is worse in the original and Stockpile Thomas' wife and child appear to be bald old men. Stockpile Thomas voice actor is much better in the original though and he takes his wife and daughter being bald old men like a champ.

Phalanx was over too quick to pick one over the other.

Monumental cutscene - way better in the original.

2:1 - don't like the level so let's just call it a draw.
Armored spider - preferred remake. The better graphics and particle effects made it a more intense fight and the music fit a little better.

4:1 - big win for the remake, way better atmosphere. The sound effects of the manta rays and the lightning were fantastic in the remake, original was really showing its age here.
Adjudicator - kind of silly in both and never a favourite so call it another draw.

I think that makes us all square, will have another update in about a week I reckon.

[ASFTSN]

If you want a vision of the future, imagine an animation of a stabbed bloke being kicked off a sword, forever. They're all the same.

Just kidding  don't PVP me bro- I'll read the shit out of this thread despite being DONE with the games after getting heavily into Bloodborne and then DS1 remaster - for me, I'd had enough by that point. Mad respect to this studio for getting an alternative vision of fantasy other than Tolkien into computer games over the years though, seriously.

Looking forward to it druss!

[Noodle Lizard]

I'm going to put a post in here every day, just because I like seeing it bolded. Little else to look forward to, I suppose.

[druss]

I'm going to put a post in here every day, just because I like seeing it bolded. Little else to look forward to, I suppose.

Unfortunately I have plans all week with the girlfriend who is so unbelievably selfish that she wants to do things other than watch me play Demon's Souls. I might have to reassess the relationship, seems like quite narcissistic behaviour.

[druss]

2:2

Just a terrible level in both games. Remake gets the nod though as the big lava room looks magnificent. Cant say anything good about the ps3 version.

Flame lurker

Big win for the remake. Every time I've faced him in the remake it has felt like an epic battle with the classic Fromsoft rush of euphoria after finally killing him. PS3 was pure frustration and I eventually resorted to cheesing his terrible tracking AI. Looked better in the original mind.

Dragon God

PS3 version wins, it's an annoying fight both times but the design is better in the PS3 version and the music feels more fitting to the fight.

1:2

Original for the same reasons as 1:1.

Tower knight

I like both fights and glad they didn't try to recreate the mad " ha ha ha ha hah" music of the original and did its own thing. Marginally prefer the original though so the PS3 version sneaks ahead.

1:3

Win for the original, fat officials are much better. The laugh in the remake is a bit try hard, as is the general look. The set pieces with the birds, horses and dead bodies seem to have more impact in the original for some reason despite the inferior graphics.

Struggling with Penetrator so probably calling it for the night.

I believe the original is now 2 points ahead but the remake really shines in worlds 3, 4 and 5 so I expect this to change.

[madhair60]

Struggling with Penetrator so probably calling it for the night.

boy have i ever been there, buddy!!

[druss]

boy have i ever been there, buddy!!

Haha.

3:1

Difficult to choose on this one. The original has a more oppressive and nasty atmosphere which is kind of the point of the prison, but the remake still makes the same point about the prison being awful (the prison of hope moniker being clearly ironic) whilst also making it somehow more captivating to explore. I think this is due to the prettier visuals and lighting and having the beautiful singing in the background as opposed to constant chirping of crickets and the eerie two notes being sung by the noble wife.

I also quite like the juxtaposition of the pretty singing in the background of the remake next to the agony and anguish that the prisoners are clearly suffering whereas the constant crickets make me anxious, which I'm sure is intentional but on repeat playthroughs it becomes annoying.

The original does a better job of putting you on edge and is closer to how I would feel if walking around such a prison but I prefer actually playing the remake level and despite the horrors I'm never in a rush to leave like I am in the PS3 version.

I'm going to have to call this one a draw.

Fool's Idol:

Original by a distance, the music and art style suit the fight better.

[druss]

Having some physical health issues at the moment so unable to make any progress with this but the motivation is still there. Anyone else having a stab at Demon's?

[jimboslice]

I started Demon's Souls (PS5) last year after playing Sekiro and Bloodborne... I sort of bounced off it and found the whole thing a bit tedious. Finished 1-1, 1-2 and 2-1, but found 3-1 really terrible (the prison with the god damn mindflayers and the massive boss run where I get lost). I got to the 4-1 boss too (Penetrator) and died a few times without making any real attempt to figure out how to actually hurt the bastard. Uninstalled and went onto Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring like a petulant child.

Reinstalled this weekend though for want of a Souls game, and have eased myself back into it. Actually using the shield properly this time, and having a slightly easier time of it. Managed the Penetrator, the Fool's Idol, and a Leech boss, but still not really enjoying things as much as I did with the other FromSoft games.

I've just got a spell that lets me escape to the Nexus which is a comfort. Will probably plod on this week, 2-2 next.

[Barry Admin]

I tried running it on a PS emulator but not joy. I'm contemplating 100%ing Dark Souls 1, just about to go to NG+.

[Noodle Lizard]

I should go back to Demon's Souls at some point, I got about halfway through I think. But now's not that point.

Hope you're doing alright, druss.

[Chollis]

I should go back to Demon's Souls at some point, I got about halfway through I think. But now's not that point.

Hope you're doing alright, druss.

You played everything besides Demon's now?

[Noodle Lizard]

You played everything besides Demon's now?

Yeah, as far as Soulsbornekiros go. Technically I didn't do all the bosses in DS2 though.

[The F Bomb]

I've really not had time to join in sadly but enjoying the read and updates from all.

[druss]

I started Demon's Souls (PS5) last year after playing Sekiro and Bloodborne... I sort of bounced off it and found the whole thing a bit tedious. Finished 1-1, 1-2 and 2-1, but found 3-1 really terrible (the prison with the god damn mindflayers and the massive boss run where I get lost). I got to the 4-1 boss too (Penetrator) and died a few times without making any real attempt to figure out how to actually hurt the bastard. Uninstalled and went onto Dark Souls 3 and Elden Ring like a petulant child.

Reinstalled this weekend though for want of a Souls game, and have eased myself back into it. Actually using the shield properly this time, and having a slightly easier time of it. Managed the Penetrator, the Fool's Idol, and a Leech boss, but still not really enjoying things as much as I did with the other FromSoft games.

I've just got a spell that lets me escape to the Nexus which is a comfort. Will probably plod on this week, 2-2 next.

I find 2-2 to be the nadir of the game, lots of strange design decisions that don't really pay off.

Hope you're doing alright, druss.

Cheers, it's a very annoying nerve issue in my neck that apparently isn't serious long term but sometimes causes intense pain down my back, arms and hands. I can usually do a bit of gaming if I play in short bursts but had a bit of a bad flare up recently. Feeling a bit better now so hopefully have another crack at finishing DeS ps3 this weekend.

[druss]

3:2

Remake wins, looks much better, design on monsters in the lake is creepy as hell and the blood lake and heart look amazing.

Maneater

Remake has the better atmosphere, bit of a nothing fight in the original but felt hard and satisfying to win in the remake (bit of a shit fight in both though really).

Old Monk

Looks and sounds great in both, tempted to give it to the remake due to still actually being able to fight other players but will call it a draw.

4:2

Remake has better atmosphere although I think I prefer the art style of the skulls on the wall in the original.

Old Hero

Tie, remake looks much better and feels like a tenser fight but the original has better music.

Storm king

The atmosphere in the remake is incredible, one of the few occasions where the epic music suits the fight much better. A rainswept stormy cliff and a mission to pick up a legendary weapon in order to defeat a flying manta god does not suit the ponderous plod of the original soundtrack. The art style on the storm king is marginally better in the original but not enough to stop this from being a big win for the remake.

Penetrator

Preferred remake, but I think partly at this point I'm getting annoyed with the clunkiness of the controls which might be influencing my preference here as I died the first time. From memory I thought the game controlled exactly the same as the remake but playing it again it is horrible, maybe even worse than DS2. Possibly an issue with the 30fps but if that were completely true then the same would be true for Bloodborne which it isn't.

5:1

Looks and sounds better in the remake.

Leachmonger

Tie as it's too easy a fight in both games whether ranged or melee to build up any atmosphere.

5:2

Can't see shit in the original, remake looks fantastic whilst retaining the grim ambience. Remake win.

Dirty colossus

Remake win, looks better and the music is silly in the original.

Maiden Astraea

I was expecting an easy win for the ps3 as the music is miles better but I found myself far less emotionally invested in the ps3 version so I'll call it a tie.

1:4

Prefer atmosphere in the original making it a clean sweep for the levels in world 1.

False King

Prefer original, better music, sound and art style on false king. His face looks demon like on the ps3 in a subtle way that the remake doesn't capture at all.

Old one cutscene

Original has better atmosphere, remake is a bit too generic and try hard with the music.

King Allant

Prefer the sadder tone of the remake music, a rare misstep for the original ost to use the a more thumping orchestral piece.

Ending

Original works better for me in both endings but particularly the "evil" ending (which I'm not sure is actually that evil as the whole game has shown what a fucked up world it is).

Remake ends 2 ahead so essentially atmosphere difference is negligible, original usually has the better music but not always, remake almost always has the better graphics but with the occasional win for the ps3 when the art style trumps the superior graphics of the remake. World 1 is better in the original better so I suspect first impressions might have tarnished the remake's reputation a little.

I will never play the ps3 version again but I will definitely come back to the ps5 so make of that what you will. I'm going to split the ratings in the gameplay category as to be honest the ps3 version was quite a slog to play.



OKAY. I have been doing all of these updates on my phone, have had to order a new desk as my old one was causing some pain issues with my hands due to being too high. I don't fancy doing the full review and ratings for Demon's Souls on my phone but as soon as I'm set up I'll get on it.

[The F Bomb]

Great post x

[jimboslice]

Finished this. Some absolutely miserable levels.

• The swamp in 5-2 was an absolute slog. I despised it to the point of googling and finding out there's a special ring that surely nobody is ever finding without googling. Thank God the boss was easy.
• The boss run in 4-2 to Old Hero is absolutely brutal and can piss off. That's not an easy fight either (Unless you know the gimmick, which I didn't think was obvious).
• I enjoyed the Storm Ruler, I like that this gimmick is basically in 3 FromSoftware games
• The final boss was good fun but pretty straight forward, especially if you've got an acre of grass on you.
• World tendency (or at least, the implementation of it) is thick.
• Maneaters were the hardest boss
• I will very likely never play this game again

[Chollis]

Enjoying this thread even though I didn't play Demon's. Keep it up please.

But let me ask you From nerds, how would you rank the titles in terms of difficulty? Everyone loves a tier list!