Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => Comedy Chat => Topic started by: Glebe on December 19, 2017, 06:49:26 AM

Title: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Glebe on December 19, 2017, 06:49:26 AM
Nobody started a thread for GOLD's recently-aired and rather significant The Story of Only Fools and Horses series (which is a pretty stupid title, given that there's already a 2002 doc going by the same name, but anyhoo...), and we could do with a nice fresh thread for OFAH-based chat anyway, so... some interesting stuff in the show, and nice to finally see some proper outtakes (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBs7ofVfawQ). Also, good to see Jason involved, along with the rest of the (surviving!) cast and crew - except Paul Barber, puzzlingly.

Oh yeah, and it's been knocking around on YouTube for awhile, but this is a nice little rarity:

Only Fools and Horses Rare Clip Harty Christmas Special. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnqgvL_jhJ4)

Anyway, let the latest OFAH discussion commence!
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: St_Eddie on December 19, 2017, 07:04:49 AM
Nicholas Lyndhurst is champ, or should I say, chump?  Hmm, a chimp perhaps?  No, no.  He's assuredly a thoroughbred champ.  Pedigree Champ, is what he is.  A champ and make no mistake.  The fellow's a champ.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on December 19, 2017, 09:22:26 AM
Was the documentary (series?) any good then?

I've only ever seen the first three series of OFAH and the odd episode from afterwards and could do with a good push into comitting to a total watch of it
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 19, 2017, 09:45:31 AM
I've been watching it again recently. It's so brilliant. Even the worst episodes aren't as bad as I used to think - A Royal Flush is good until the last ten minutes, the first half of Miami Twice is great and of the last three episodes, only the first one is outright bad IMO.

The documentary series was good, but could very easily have been scaled back to a couple of hours at most - there was a ridiculous amount of repeated footage, and even casual fans will probably have heard a lot of the stories before (Jim Broadbent was the first choice to play Del, if the chandelier scene went wrong the show would have been cancelled, David Jason was going to leave after the end of the fifth series). But as mentioned above the outtakes were good and new to me, and it was nice to see some relevant people talking about the show other than Boycie and Marlene, who have made a creditable but thoroughly irritating career out of talking about the show at every possible opportunity.

If anyone is really desperate for new Fools and Horses detail, David Jason's latest autobiography offers more new info than the documentary.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: St_Eddie on December 19, 2017, 09:48:35 AM
I can count on three fingers, the number of Only Fools and Horses episodes which I have watched.  That is my shameful confession for the day.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 19, 2017, 09:53:53 AM
Me and a mate compiled separate lists of all the Only Fools and Horses episodes in order of how much we like them, then compared them. Took us forever. It's possible I love the show too much.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: St_Eddie on December 19, 2017, 09:57:23 AM
Me and a mate compiled separate lists of all the Only Fools and Horses episodes in order of how much we like them, then compared them. Took us forever. It's possible I love the show too much.

It's also possible that you have too much time on your hands but then again, so do I.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 19, 2017, 09:59:08 AM
Oh it's absolutely beyond doubt that I have too much time on my hands.

This is my list...

1   Mother Nature's Son
2   Heroes And Villains
3   Dates
4   Fatal Extraction
5   Time On Our Hands
6   The Jolly Boy's Outing
7   Healthy Competition
8   Chain Gang
9   Danger UXD
10   May The Force Be With You
11   Class Of '62
12   Sickness And Wealth
13   Modern Men
14   A Losing Streak
15   He Ain't Heavy, He's My Uncle
16   Yuppy Love
17   Sleeping Dogs Lie
18   Hole In One
19   The Longest Night
20   As One Door Closes
21   Who's A Pretty Boy
22   The Frog's Legacy
23   Stage Fright
24   The Unlucky Winner Is…
25   Little Problems
26   Three Men, A Woman And A Baby
27   The Sky's The Limit
28   It's Only Rock And Roll
29   Video Nasty
30   The Chance Of A Lunchtime
31   Friday The 14th
32   Rodney Come Home
33   Ashes To Ashes
34   Cash And Curry
35   The Miracle Of Peckham
36   Strangers On The Shore
37   Happy Returns
38   Homesick
39   Who Wants To Be A Millionaire
40   The Yellow Peril
41   The Second Time Around
42   Strained Relations
43   The Long Legs Of The Law
44   A Touch Of Glass
45   Big Brother
46   Watching The Girls Go By
47   A Slow Bus To Chingford
48   Yesterday Never Comes
49   No Greater Love
50   From Prussia With Love
51   Tea For Three
52   The Russians Are Coming
53   Wanted
54   Go West Young Man
55   It Never Rains
56   To Hull And Back
57   Miami Twice 1
58   Thicker Than Water
59   Sleepless In Peckham
60   Diamonds Are For Heather
61   Christmas Crackers
62   If They Could See Us Now
63   Miami Twice 2
64   A Royal Flush

Discuss!
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Norton Canes on December 19, 2017, 10:01:40 AM
Javelin!
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: St_Eddie on December 19, 2017, 10:24:13 AM
Discus!
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Uncle TechTip on December 19, 2017, 10:41:27 AM
The documentary revealed nothing we didn't know already and I'm afraid that David Jason just makes me uncomfortable these days. They made him reenact a couple of scenes which were horrific. I bailed during episode 2; I understand there were at least four. Interminable.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 19, 2017, 08:04:09 PM
Your list is like the complete opposite of mine, Utter Shit
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 19, 2017, 08:09:20 PM
It's also possible that you have too much time on your hands but then again, so do I.
At number 5 that tolled in
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 19, 2017, 08:27:41 PM
I've been watching it again recently. It's so brilliant. Even the worst episodes aren't as bad as I used to think - A Royal Flush is good until the last ten minutes, the first half of Miami Twice is great and of the last three episodes, only the first one is outright bad IMO.
Rodney's scene outside the lift absolutely stunned me on a recent watch. Like something from a lost Play for Today.

Shite episode, yah, and even shiter ending, but that scene is so good.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: purlieu on December 19, 2017, 09:08:39 PM
It's also possible that you have too much time on your hands but then again, so do I.
Watch at least the first five series of OFAH then.
As I've mentioned in the past, after series five it's good moments rather than good episodes for me. I still find lots to enjoy, but it's no longer essential viewing. And Who Wants to be a Millionaire? would be such a good way for the show to close. Although that way Del would never fall through the bar, and this forum would have closed due to inactivity in the process.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 19, 2017, 09:10:48 PM
Utter shits list is, well utter shit. You've listed all the right episodes, just not in the right order.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 19, 2017, 09:19:09 PM
my besties:
Friday the 14th
The Longest Night
Losing Streak
Homesick
May the Force Be with You
The Russians Are Coming
Wanted
Who's a Pretty Boy?
Big Brother
Healthy Competition
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 19, 2017, 09:26:35 PM
My list took a lot of criticism among my pals as well. I think I like the drama of the longer form episodes. That list was also done last year, it would be slightly different now. For example I think I would be more in tune with the public and have Jolly Boys Outing higher.

What lift scene are you talking about Fred? Can't remember off the top of my head, does it end with Rodney smashing his hand up?

The essential OFAH runs right up to Time On Our Hands imo, perfect ending and I don't think there's any notable difference in quality in series 6 and 7 - although I would say it's a very different show when Cassandra and Raquel arrive, it isn't better or worse, same with Grandad vs Uncle Albert.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Replies From View on December 19, 2017, 09:35:32 PM
I can count on three fingers, the number of Only Fools and Horses episodes which I have watched.  That is my shameful confession for the day.

How many episodes are you counting on each finger?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Morrison Lard on December 19, 2017, 09:39:44 PM
I've not seen any for aaages,
but recently saw that Jolly Boys Outing one and thoroughly enjoyed it.

Bob Mortimer's "you Rodney plonker!" has now become the standard utterance at work upon anyone being a right bloody tit.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: FredNurke on December 19, 2017, 09:44:38 PM
On a related note, the tag RODNEY YOU PLONKER CUNT has burnt itself into my mind.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Replies From View on December 19, 2017, 09:46:18 PM
I would say it's a very different show when Cassandra and Raquel arrive, it isn't better or worse, same with Grandad vs Uncle Albert.


I would say that it gets worse when Cassandra and Raquel arrive, and I am right.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: St_Eddie on December 20, 2017, 03:49:57 AM
Watch at least the first five series of OFAH then.

It's on my ever expanding list of things to watch, to be sure.

How many episodes are you counting on each finger?

25 and a half.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 20, 2017, 09:45:35 AM

I would say that it gets worse when Cassandra and Raquel arrive, and I am right.

It's not as funny and loses whatever edge it had, but I love the longer form stories and pathos of the later episodes!
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: JoeyBananaduck on December 20, 2017, 10:42:12 AM
Wouldn't have minded seeing the recent docs but I don't get GOLD so tough titty. It's been many years since I watched it and I'd wager I've probably only seen 12-15 episodes total. My favourite when I was a young 'un was whichever one it is where they win the holiday and Rodney has to join the Groovy Gang. I watched the 90's Christmas trilogy then bailed after the first revival after that, which was pretty bloody dreadful to be fair. I did however catch the Sports Relief special, which was even worse.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Jockice on December 20, 2017, 11:04:01 AM
I've probably seen most of the episodes at least once but don't know the titles of any of them. That totally passed me by. There are a few I can guess though.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: imitationleather on December 20, 2017, 11:24:04 AM
I've watched pretty much every episode so many times now that the only ones I can bear to sit through any more are the ones with Grandad as they tend to be shown and quoted less, aside from yer chandelier ones and the like. The noughties specials and especially that Sports Relief shite are non-canon as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: DrGreggles on December 20, 2017, 11:38:31 AM
Never really rated OFAH. Can't see what all the fuss is about to be honest. It's pretty average stuff on the whole. Probably some good gags in there, but the way it's revered astonishes me.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Replies From View on December 20, 2017, 05:55:05 PM
It's not as funny and loses whatever edge it had, but I love the longer form stories and pathos of the later episodes!

It's not pathos it's SHITNESS.

You love when things go shit, that's all.  I'm not judging you for that but I can't go on shielding you from the truth like this.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 20, 2017, 05:57:35 PM
only fools and horses was better when it was aping galton and simpson
our del and rodney in skintight batman suits? panto shite
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 20, 2017, 06:00:59 PM
like one foot in the grave, only fools and horses excelled at bottle episodes 

The Russians are coming
The Longest Night
A Losing Streak
Would Friday the 14th be a bottle? I'm calling it one anyway
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: lankyguy95 on December 20, 2017, 06:04:04 PM
Little Problems is when they do pathos the best. In fact, the point I tend to separate off OFAH is post '89. I don't think it ever got truly great again after that point.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 20, 2017, 06:08:00 PM
Christmas Crackers would be an a-grade early episode if it remained a bottle throughout the entirety of it
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 20, 2017, 08:27:59 PM
It's not pathos it's SHITNESS.

You love when things go shit, that's all.  I'm not judging you for that but I can't go on shielding you from the truth like this.

Could be this. Best series of Scrubs is the last one. Same with The Wire.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 20, 2017, 08:28:53 PM
like one foot in the grave, only fools and horses excelled at bottle episodes 

The Russians are coming
The Longest Night
A Losing Streak
Would Friday the 14th be a bottle? I'm calling it one anyway

The Longest Night is incredible. Vas Blackwood yaaaaasss
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 20, 2017, 08:47:09 PM
Could be this. Best series of Scrubs is the last one. Same with The Wire.
there there, there there
I prefer s2 of partridge to s1 s'alright
 
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: JamesTC on December 20, 2017, 09:05:46 PM
I've watched through every episode around 5 or 6 years ago but I'd quite like to do it again. Only off putting thing is that they are butchered with edits. I keep expecting a money grabbing move from BBC Worldwide of them releasing the uncut versions which I'd happily buy but it just never seems to happen. I believe they looked into the possibility of a new DVD release for the recent anniversary but it never happened.

Could be this. Best series of Scrubs is the last one. Same with The Wire.
Psycho 2 is the best Psycho film.

Alien 3 is the best Alien film.

Enterprise is the best Star Trek.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 20, 2017, 09:14:11 PM
I am obviously lying about The Wire and Scrubs btw. Serial killer with ribbons fuck off
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 20, 2017, 09:19:39 PM
"joking" pshshhh!!
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: non capisco on December 20, 2017, 10:39:46 PM
The sight gag in 'The Longest Night' where we think Rodney is bravely reaching for The Shadow's gun but it turns out he's going for the packet of fags is one of my favourite moments in any sitcom. That episode also has the bit where Uncle Albert fakes a heart attack and no-one reacts so he just gets up again. It's complete gold throughout.

Right then, this is how I'm going to spend January, I've decided. A rewatch of the first six series. It should have ended with Rodney getting married.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Camp Tramp on December 20, 2017, 10:41:18 PM
When I went to Majorca in the 20th century, the identity of the British tourist was linked to OFAH, since every pub and restaurant would be playing it when the football wasn't on.

The Lookie Lookie men who prowled the street would always approach you by shouting "Hey Del-Boy, Hey Rodney. lookie lookie!"

I was always Rodney.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: non capisco on December 20, 2017, 10:43:02 PM
"It's called 'There Is A Rhino Loose In The City!'"

"Woss it abaht, Del?"
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 20, 2017, 10:48:40 PM
THAT'S THE BEAUTY OF IT
I KNOW WHERE RHINOS ARE GOING CHEAP
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: non capisco on December 20, 2017, 10:58:57 PM
"An 'oodunnit? What do you mean an 'oodunnit? We know 'oodunnit! The rhino dunnit!"

"He only comes out at night!"
"And where's he live in the day?"
"In a lock-up garage in a backstreet!"
"What, leasing it, is he?"

That whole scene is dripping with riches.

"And how's he escape?"
"Squeezed through the bars, most probably."

Golden age Rodney is such a brilliant character. A completely believable mix of feckless gaucheness and withering sarcasm, played to a tee by Lyndhurst.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: imitationleather on December 20, 2017, 11:13:27 PM
"An 'oodunnit? What do you mean an 'oodunnit? We know 'oodunnit! The rhino dunnit!"

"He only comes out at night!"
"And where's he live in the day?"
"In a lock-up garage in a backstreet!"
"What, leasing it, is he?"

That whole scene is dripping with riches.

"And how's he escape?"
"Squeezed through the bars, most probably."

Golden age Rodney is such a brilliant character. A completely believable mix of feckless gaucheness and withering sarcasm, played to a tee by Lyndhurst.

Ah man. This post and subsequently remembering that scene has basically got me writhing around on the floor in hysterics. Carpet burns ahoy, but I regret nothing.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: ollyboro on December 20, 2017, 11:58:33 PM
The first extended episodes series (the blow-up dolls, Arnie and his chains, the Groovy Gang, Del's yearning to be a yuppie etc) is probably my favourite. After that....mmm. There was too much seriousness thrown in, which came across as an excuse for the cast to show their acting chops. I'm thinking of The infamous miscarriage, Albert's mugging and the truly execrable Miami Twice. The laughs per minute got a lot fewer. Hitting the jackpot with the watch would have been a perfect full stop.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: JoeyBananaduck on December 21, 2017, 09:03:54 AM
If someone wants to give me their top 3 episodes I'll watch and write brief reviews. First in wins. I realise having a couple of sentences about something you love sharted out by a gormless waterfowl isn't a huge incentive but hey, some of us are bored.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 21, 2017, 09:09:00 AM
Can't really pick three because there are far too many great episodes, but today I'll go with -

- A Losing Streak
- Friday 14th
- To Hull and Back
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: JoeyBananaduck on December 21, 2017, 09:09:51 AM
Ok, will work my way through biggy's list throughout the day. Cheers.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: purlieu on December 21, 2017, 09:58:12 AM
"An 'oodunnit? What do you mean an 'oodunnit? We know 'oodunnit! The rhino dunnit!"

"He only comes out at night!"
"And where's he live in the day?"
"In a lock-up garage in a backstreet!"
"What, leasing it, is he?"

That whole scene is dripping with riches.

"And how's he escape?"
"Squeezed through the bars, most probably."

Golden age Rodney is such a brilliant character. A completely believable mix of feckless gaucheness and withering sarcasm, played to a tee by Lyndhurst.

Oh bloody hell that scene has me in absolute hysterics every time. Sometimes I think the punchline almost cheapens the joke, because I love the idea that Del's come up with this as a genuine creative idea. I'm grinning my face off just thinking about it now.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 21, 2017, 10:09:30 AM
They should make there's a rhino loose in the city with Craig Fairbrass in the Charlton Heston role.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: JoeyBananaduck on December 21, 2017, 11:26:19 AM
Losing Streak

So this is my first foray into OFAH proper since 2001 when the very disappointing 'If They Could See Us Now' first aired (I didn't bother with the subsequent 2 Christmas specials). In the intervening years the show has been something I've heard people talk about to death but had no desire to revisit myself, so it has all felt a bit like nostalgia-goggled over-saturation.

That said it only took a few minutes to remember that this wasn't something just okay deified to greatest thing ever. It was genuinely great and there's a lot to like. The writing at this point, as someone said earlier, is very Galton & Simpson influenced but there's more warmth there. Albert and Harold were capable of genuinely loathing each other whereas Del loves Rodney and Rodney is merely frustrated at Del's recklessness and short-sightedness. A believable brotherly relationship. Oh, and Grandad is even more docile and raddled than I remembered, but funny and likeable with it.

Boycie is particularly cold here but I gather it was one of his first if not his actual first appearance. Poker has provided a lot of good sitcom episodes - oddly compelling to watch despite the relative lack of action. Think it must be the 'they know something we don't know' aspect. Does Del have a good hand? Does he really think Boycie is bluffing, or is Del double bluffing himself? It all builds nicely. The ultimate punchline with Rodney miscalling the double-sided coin is telegraphed from a mile away but still a funny and satisfying ending. Good episode. Pretty sure I've seen it before but a long, long time ago.

4 Aces out of 5.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: imitationleather on December 21, 2017, 11:29:58 AM
I have often (well, okay, like twice) wondered if Boycie was intended to be a one-off character because he is such a massive cunt in that episode the idea of him being part of the gang just isn't believable at that point. I guess it's something which has been addressed in the numerous books and docs made about the series.

Great episode. Really sums up the murkier mood of the earlier series and why I favour them these days.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: ollyboro on December 21, 2017, 01:01:57 PM
I have often (well, okay, like twice) wondered if Boycie was intended to be a one-off character because he is such a massive cunt in that episode the idea of him being part of the gang just isn't believable at that point. I guess it's something which has been addressed in the numerous books and docs made about the series.

Great episode. Really sums up the murkier mood of the earlier series and why I favour them these days.
Similar thoughts about Trigger and his development (or lack of). In the first episode he comes across as a bit of an operator with his briefcases. A bit thick, but nowhere near as surrealistically stupid as in later episodes. It's suggested that Rodders has never met him before, but surely a 23 year old must have met one of his brother's oldest (as we find out in later episodes) school friends and drinking partners.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: JoeyBananaduck on December 21, 2017, 01:09:35 PM
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention about Trigger - him being the one suggesting a further gamble knowing Del has a double-sided coin. They wouldn't have done that in the later years, right? Bit smart for him.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Namtab on December 21, 2017, 03:09:50 PM
I love the show 'n all. The writing is some of the warmest, most downright enjoyable you'll find in comedy.

However, watching quite a lot of it as per usual round this time of year, and I have to ask... where the fuck did John Sullivan conjure the 'Rodney thinks Damien is the antichrist' thing from? It feels like it belongs in a completely different show, and never quite lands for me. It's entirely out of character.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: purlieu on December 21, 2017, 04:31:41 PM
Well, the show did what a lot of sitcoms do, in that it took the most popular one-offs and made them regulars. I don't like it in later episodes where every scheme seems to end up involving Boycie, Trigger and Denzil, and maybe Mike. In the first series particularly, Del meets different people every week, and that made it seem like a more realistically fleshed out reality.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Steptoes_Son on December 21, 2017, 04:55:29 PM
Well, the show did what a lot of sitcoms do, in that it took the most popular one-offs and made them regulars. I don't like it in later episodes where every scheme seems to end up involving Boycie, Trigger and Denzil, and maybe Mike. In the first series particularly, Del meets different people every week, and that made it seem like a more realistically fleshed out reality.

And we never did see Monkey Harris did we?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 21, 2017, 05:08:04 PM
Losing Streak

So this is my first foray into OFAH proper since 2001 when the very disappointing 'If They Could See Us Now' first aired (I didn't bother with the subsequent 2 Christmas specials). In the intervening years the show has been something I've heard people talk about to death but had no desire to revisit myself, so it has all felt a bit like nostalgia-goggled over-saturation.

That said it only took a few minutes to remember that this wasn't something just okay deified to greatest thing ever. It was genuinely great and there's a lot to like. The writing at this point, as someone said earlier, is very Galton & Simpson influenced but there's more warmth there. Albert and Harold were capable of genuinely loathing each other whereas Del loves Rodney and Rodney is merely frustrated at Del's recklessness and short-sightedness. A believable brotherly relationship. Oh, and Grandad is even more docile and raddled than I remembered, but funny and likeable with it.

Boycie is particularly cold here but I gather it was one of his first if not his actual first appearance. Poker has provided a lot of good sitcom episodes - oddly compelling to watch despite the relative lack of action. Think it must be the 'they know something we don't know' aspect. Does Del have a good hand? Does he really think Boycie is bluffing, or is Del double bluffing himself? It all builds nicely. The ultimate punchline with Rodney miscalling the double-sided coin is telegraphed from a mile away but still a funny and satisfying ending. Good episode. Pretty sure I've seen it before but a long, long time ago.

4 Aces out of 5.
Do May the Force Be with You or Friday the 14th next and post a little review you'll love them
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: ollyboro on December 21, 2017, 06:22:20 PM
And we never did see Monkey Harris did we?
It was Sunglasses Ron and Paddy the Greek I wanted to see. I mean who wouldn't do business with two geezers sporting those monikers?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: BeardFaceMan on December 21, 2017, 07:41:23 PM
Are the DVD releases edited much? Whats the best way to go about watching complete episodes from the first few series?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 21, 2017, 07:47:17 PM
You want the VHS releases which are I think uncut apart from clearences. The dvds are apperently butchered to pieces., as are the gold showings.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 21, 2017, 11:32:41 PM
That review was great Joey, would love to read more.

I agree that the Damien stuff doesn't really work, although it's almost worth it for the music stings from The Omen. Was that film our around that time? As Sullivan did like to write episodes that nodded to pop culture of the time - for example Fatal Extraction being an obvious take on Fatal Attraction not just in the title but the story and specifically the scene where Del thinks his hamster has been boiled by his stalker.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Bad Ambassador on December 21, 2017, 11:43:09 PM
Are the DVD releases edited much? Whats the best way to go about watching complete episodes from the first few series?

Edit notes (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Only_Fools_and_Horses_home_video_releases)
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 21, 2017, 11:53:46 PM
This is a show that desperately needs a definitive, restored, Doctor who style set of releases, uncut and with the original music. And some decent extras. Probably missed the dvd boat now though.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 21, 2017, 11:56:14 PM
considering getting all the un-cut episodes on iTunes

 
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: TheMonk on December 22, 2017, 10:01:18 AM
considering getting all the un-cut episodes on iTunes
Are they uncut on iTunes then?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Replies From View on December 22, 2017, 12:49:59 PM
it's almost worth it for the music stings from The Omen.

AND RODNEY DOES A FACE.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 22, 2017, 01:52:21 PM
Are they uncut on iTunes then?


I'd imagine they're the DVD edits - eg butchered.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Replies From View on December 22, 2017, 01:56:41 PM
You want the VHS releases which are I think uncut apart from clearences. The dvds are apperently butchered to pieces., as are the gold showings.

The VHS versions must surely be online somewhere as video files?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 22, 2017, 02:36:00 PM
Yeah that's where I got all mine from in a torrent, but this was years ago. No idea if its still available.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on December 22, 2017, 04:15:51 PM
I've never really got the appeal of it to be honest. It's all a bit too South East English for me. Same goes for Birds of a Feather. That can fuck right off and poo in a hat.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on December 22, 2017, 07:44:00 PM
Are they uncut on iTunes then?

According to the Wikipedia page linked above, they are uncut on iTunes. They're from a recent UK Gold remastering session apparently. £20 for the lot, not a bad deal if there's a comfortable way to watch them, but I only ever bought one video from iTunes and it insisted I had to watch it on my laptop - I couldn't cast to my TV in any way at all, despite the fact I fucking paid for it, so I spent an inordinate, obsessive amount of time figuring out how to pirate it and gave it to all my friends for free once I did.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Uncle TechTip on December 22, 2017, 07:53:20 PM
There is a lot of contemporary music though, and I think the Beatles are heard more than once, these edits are the test of whether it's really uncut. The UK Gold showings are surely butchered for distasteful racial slang.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: ollyboro on December 22, 2017, 08:31:25 PM
There is a lot of contemporary music though, and I think the Beatles are heard more than once, these edits are the test of whether it's really uncut. The UK Gold showings are surely butchered for distasteful racial slang.
Although the last time I saw the episode with the séance on Gold it included the Jimmy Savile joke.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 22, 2017, 08:35:50 PM
Gilbert O'Sullivan singing Uncle Albert in a scene that's a bit of a rip-off of the Dock scene in Blackstuff
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 22, 2017, 08:39:07 PM
There is a lot of contemporary music though, and I think the Beatles are heard more than once, these edits are the test of whether it's really uncut. The UK Gold showings are surely butchered for distasteful racial slang.
I think the bit about "the paki shop" is still in there from the happy returns episode
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 22, 2017, 09:28:42 PM
So it should be, (even if it was racist, which it isn't) it's just an accurate rendition of how people spoke then. The one thing you could never accuse the show of was racism, right from its first series it was always about showing London as a proudly multicultural place, and Del as someone who treated everyone equally. They have black and Asian people as just other colorful characters in the show, in contrast to many contemporary sitcoms where ethnicity was still played for cheap laughs. It does really annoy me that sitcoms, even all time great ones, are treated in such a shoddy way, where they can just be chopped up and messed around with like they weren't important cultural artifacts. We'd never do the same with books and plays.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 23, 2017, 08:06:29 PM
My sister watched an Only Fools And Horses episode for the first time today. She had previously seen bits of it but didn't know a great deal about it. Went with May The Force Be With You as, as well as being a great episode generally, it has a fantastic ending. She really enjoyed it.

Netflix then went on to show the next episode, Wanted. My sister was less impressed with the show's casual treatment of rape, and false accusations of rape, as inherently funny. Interesting to see how the show goes over with younger generations (she's ten years younger than me) as that episode had never occurred to me as problematic before, in fact the only issues I'd ever had were with the - alarmingly frequent for such a cosy show - fearful attitude towards gays and the idea of being gay.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Beagle 2 on December 23, 2017, 08:46:47 PM
My sister watched an Only Fools And Horses episode for the first time today. She had previously seen bits of it but didn't know a great deal about it. Went with May The Force Be With You as, as well as being a great episode generally, it has a fantastic ending. She really enjoyed it.

Netflix then went on to show the next episode, Wanted. My sister was less impressed with the show's casual treatment of rape, and false accusations of rape, as inherently funny. Interesting to see how the show goes over with younger generations (she's ten years younger than me) as that episode had never occurred to me as problematic before, in fact the only issues I'd ever had were with the - alarmingly frequent for such a cosy show - fearful attitude towards gays and the idea of being gay.

Yes that's unfortunate, it's not something that had occured to me before (I hadn't seen the episode in years) but a mate of mine emailed me a few months ago to say how extremely fucking weird and ill-judged that episode is.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 23, 2017, 08:53:09 PM
You know how there's Jerkass Homer?
Jerkass Delboy.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Psmith on December 23, 2017, 08:59:03 PM
I used to watch in the early days mainly for Grandad,he had the best lines.
Buster as Uncle Albert was too OTT for me.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 23, 2017, 09:02:45 PM
Netflix then went on to show the next episode, Wanted. My sister was less impressed with the show's casual treatment of rape, and false accusations of rape, as inherently funny. Interesting to see how the show goes over with younger generations (she's ten years younger than me) as that episode had never occurred to me as problematic before, in fact the only issues I'd ever had were with the - alarmingly frequent for such a cosy show - fearful attitude towards gays and the idea of being gay.
Drink up we're leaving
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 23, 2017, 09:21:26 PM
The entire scene where Del becomes convinced he has AIDs because he gets his hair cut by a gayman. So dodgy.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Autopsy Turvey on December 23, 2017, 10:25:39 PM
The entire scene where Del becomes convinced he has AIDs because he gets his hair cut by a gayman. So dodgy.

When he's in hospital? Not the entire scene, as Rodney swiftly puts him straight. It's a feasible misconception for a man of Del's generation and background, and also a reflection of how desperate and frightened he is at that point.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Trojan_Jockey on December 23, 2017, 10:32:54 PM
When he's in hospital? Not the entire scene, as Rodney swiftly puts him straight. It's a feasible misconception for a man of Del's generation and background, and also a reflection of how desperate and frightened he is at that point.

Well, not quite, as Rodney says Del will be alright as long as the gay hairdresser didn't kiss it better.

But I have to agree with the comment above, Uncle Albert was played 'too big' and was nowhere near as funny as Grandad.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Porter Dimi on December 23, 2017, 10:48:50 PM
Interesting to see how the show goes over with younger generations (she's ten years younger than me) as that episode had never occurred to me as problematic before, in fact the only issues I'd ever had were with the - alarmingly frequent for such a cosy show - fearful attitude towards gays and the idea of being gay.

There's also the occasional racial slur, and a fairly nasty refugee portrayal in one of the final Xmas specials.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 23, 2017, 11:36:29 PM
All of the relatively mild casual prejudices the characters show in the episodes would be utterly normal at that time in that environment. Del is hardly a bigot or a racist though in any problematic way, so I find the idea we would judge those characters based on modern sensibilities weird. If we did that it would render all art produced in the past 'bad', because they all reflect the standards of the time.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 23, 2017, 11:45:54 PM
thatcher's britain innit
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: weirdbeard on December 24, 2017, 12:00:58 AM
Yes that's unfortunate, it's not something that had occured to me before (I hadn't seen the episode in years) but a mate of mine emailed me a few months ago to say how extremely fucking weird and ill-judged that episode is.

"Now on BBC1, Rodney is accused of being a rapist, and will Del Boy avoid drinking his brothers piss?".
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 24, 2017, 12:05:21 AM
you ain't been at those funny fags av you rodders?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: imitationleather on December 24, 2017, 09:56:32 AM
I made a post on here years ago that the Uncle Albert character could just be too overbearing for me and I much preferred Grandad and some posters had a right old go at me for essentially pissing on Buster Merryfield's grave. Not holding a TC Raymond-style grudge, I'm just heartened to see I'm not the only one that finds his portrayal difficult to watch at times. During the whole bit where he leaves and there's that fucking I'm Sorry Uncle Albert or whatever song I basically hope he gets found by the lads floating facedown in the Thames. Emotionally manipulative attention-seeking bastard.

Hmm... Maybe that is a bit more over the top than I actually feel about this matter. But typing it felt right.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 24, 2017, 10:21:32 AM
Everyone prefers grandad surely. What kind of PLONKER prefers Uncle Albert?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: purlieu on December 24, 2017, 10:37:17 AM
I preferred Uncle Albert as a kid, then revisiting the show as an adult realised how much better Grandad is. I think that reflects the writing of the two characters quite well.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 24, 2017, 10:51:22 AM
Be interesting to see how some of those Uncle Albert episodes would have worked with grandad though.  I know a hole in one was started with grandad, there's even some location footage with him in the wheelchair, but it was refilmed with Uncle Albert after Lennard Pearce's death. To me the plot of that episode feels more believable with Uncle Albert, you could never imagine grandad still having that kind of agility. Ditto to Hull and Back, doesn't feel like that would have worked as well with grandad.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 24, 2017, 12:07:55 PM
There's also the occasional racial slur, and a fairly nasty refugee portrayal in one of the final Xmas specials.

There is racial language that by today's standards jars massively but clearly isn't said with any malice (numerous mentions to 'paki shops' etc that are just of their time, the only racist element I can remember that is said maliciously and isn't immediately shown to be unacceptable is when Albert refers to reggae being played in the pub as 'monkey music'.

Most of the time when negative comments are made about other races the people making those comments are immediately vilified by other characters (usually Raquel or Rodney) or shown to be wrong by the story (for example Del trying to exploit the two Indian blokes in series 1, but getting conned himself, the same episode having a seemingly naive restaurant owner who is actually way ahead of Del and Rodney, and the immigrant episode where the supposed immigrant turns out to be some sort of successful businessman).

Generally I think Sullivan was quite good at turning racial stereotypes on their head, and he clearly came at the show from a firmly left wing perspective, rewatching the show I've been surprised at the number of political points made about Thatcher's Britain...homophobia was the one real blind spot he seemed to have, in terms of homophobic behaviour going mostly unchecked. You could argue that it's more about alpha male Del's insecurities but it would have been good if his attitude was challenged more.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: ollyboro on December 24, 2017, 03:40:33 PM
I don't think the Sikh motorcycle crash helmet  scene was racist. Just shit.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on December 26, 2017, 12:23:00 PM
I'm working through these on DVDs. I think I want to stop after they sell the watch, which was in Time On Our Hands if I'm not mistaken (going by the list on the back of the case).

Would I be missing anything by not watching the three episodes that come after?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 26, 2017, 12:29:37 PM
You won't be missing anything if you call it a day after the Jolly Boys Outing tbh.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Goldentony on December 26, 2017, 01:05:00 PM
Any help with this would be appreciated - months back I was sat here with my dad in the background watching an episode and there's a moment where Rodney points something out to Del in the pub, and Del fires back after a moments thought

SHUT UP RODNEY YOU BRASS

Which floored me. The delivery was perfect, but I've not been able to figure out which episode it might be. Any guesses or owt?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: stonerose84 on December 26, 2017, 01:37:14 PM
I'm pretty sure it's 'Danger UXD' though the line Del gives is "Oh shut up and sit down you old brass"
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Goldentony on December 26, 2017, 01:51:15 PM
it's definitely not Danger UXD, me and a mate sat through the episode a while back thinking the same. That delivery is quite a playful OH SIT DOWN YOU OLD BRASS type thing. I remember this as being a stern sort of don't talk back tone of voice from Del.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on December 26, 2017, 06:23:02 PM
I don't think the Sikh motorcycle crash helmet  scene was racist. Just shit.
Worth it for Rodney's incredulous "THEY'LL SMASH MY HEAD IN".
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Gulftastic on December 26, 2017, 09:51:44 PM
You won't be missing anything if you call it a day after the Jolly Boys Outing tbh.

Yes. Never as good after that episode. And it's a good ep for all of the regular supporting cast. Nearly all of them get a bit of business to do.

Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 27, 2017, 01:18:19 AM
Video Nasty is wank apart from There's a Rhino Loose in the City isn't it?

 
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: RenegadeScrew on December 27, 2017, 01:28:54 AM
As it goes on certain characters are so cartoonish it is almost hard to believe.  The guy in the hospital in Casandra's miscarriage episode who acts like a brat and says he has "taken some pills earlier and I don't know what they are cause I was drunk" is probably the most horrific example of this.  Del punches him.

It is amazingly unsubtle.  It is from 1996!

If this is actually the script, then the character is named 'man' which is far more subtle than any of his words or actions.  http://www.geocities.ws/hookyscripts/Episode_59.htm
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 27, 2017, 07:51:04 AM
Yeah by that 90/91 series John Sullivan had clearly started to run low on invention, but the most obvious thing is how much 'bigger' and more cartoony the show becomes, and it has to be said David Jason is probably the worse offender. Lyndhuest manages to remain quite consistent and understated with how he played the role from the first series, but Del slips ever deeper into caricature as the show drags on through the 90s.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: TheMonk on December 27, 2017, 08:47:59 AM
Yeah by that 90/91 series John Sullivan had clearly started to run low on invention, but the most obvious thing is how much 'bigger' and more cartoony the show becomes, and it has to be said David Jason is probably the worse offender. Lyndhuest manages to remain quite consistent and understated with how he played the role from the first series, but Del slips ever deeper into caricature as the show drags on through the 90s.
Yes, I can’t remember when but in an episode Jason appears to break from the script to sing “It ain’t necessarily so” and then giggles at himself. It’s distracting and appears he’s taking the piss. And it’s not funny.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: itsfredtitmus on December 27, 2017, 08:57:49 AM
 Yuppy Love apparently
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Tony Yeboah on December 27, 2017, 04:07:02 PM
As it goes on certain characters are so cartoonish it is almost hard to believe.  The guy in the hospital in Casandra's miscarriage episode who acts like a brat and says he has "taken some pills earlier and I don't know what they are cause I was drunk" is probably the most horrific example of this.  Del punches him.

It is amazingly unsubtle.  It is from 1996!

If this is actually the script, then the character is named 'man' which is far more subtle than any of his words or actions.  http://www.geocities.ws/hookyscripts/Episode_59.htm

Played by Phil Cornwell. Yeah the character is completely overdone with clunky dialogue and  unconvincing 'drunk' acting, it shouldn't take much to get across that he's a drunk arsehole who deserves a punch in the face but they completely overdo it.

I think the three 1996 Christmas episodes are pretty good overall though, I just wish they had left it there and not done the last three.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: ollyboro on December 27, 2017, 04:11:18 PM
Worth it for Rodney's incredulous "THEY'LL SMASH MY HEAD IN".
He gave a similar response to Del suggesting he tried to sell some wigs in the local pubs.

"How can I walk up to a bald bloke in a pub and say 'Do you wanna buy a wig?' I'll get me face smashed in."
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on December 27, 2017, 08:30:12 PM
Video Nasty is wank apart from There's a Rhino Loose in the City isn't it?

If you're interested there is a short low budget Video Nasty made by the guy that owned the Electric Cinema in Brum.

http://youtu.be/sbAbGwa1hb4
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on December 27, 2017, 08:33:07 PM
and a fairly nasty refugee portrayal in one of the final Xmas specials.

If I recall, and I've not seen it since it first went out, but it was more cartoonish, offensive and shitter than 'Ant and Dec' in the Phoenix Nights.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: imitationleather on December 27, 2017, 08:44:04 PM
That is the second of the three, isn't it? I remember for the first part thinking, "Hey, this isn't as mind-bogglingly shit as the first one. Result!" and then the refugee in the flat plot happened and I have no idea how I managed to make it to the end of the episode. Absolutely atrocious. I couldn't believe they were really going with a storyline that had such a terrible portrayal of a refugee. And for a refugee character to seem offensive back in those days when, looking back at our television shows it appears that we were all massively racist and homophobic, it had to be really bad.

I've not watched any of those three episodes since they were first on. Has anybody?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Porter Dimi on December 27, 2017, 08:48:03 PM
If I recall, and I've not seen it since it first went out, but it was more cartoonish, offensive and shitter than 'Ant and Dec' in the Phoenix Nights.

About as bad as each other. Was lorry refugee comedy a big thing in 2002?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on December 27, 2017, 08:57:28 PM
I think the red tops had been hammering it in the news around then. I remember them being similar, and out around the same time but couldn't say which one came first, or be bothered to check, tbh.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Gulftastic on December 27, 2017, 09:00:38 PM


I've not watched any of those three episodes since they were first on. Has anybody?

Only the last 30 minutes or so of the last one, where Rodney learns of his true heritage. After nearly three whole episodes of awful comedy, it turns into a quite good drama with some touching moments.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on December 30, 2017, 03:12:15 PM
Del drinks tea from a saucer in the first episode of series 2. Is this common?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 30, 2017, 03:46:41 PM
Immensely so yes, could hardly move for people doing that in the 80s.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on December 30, 2017, 06:22:54 PM
Anyone know why?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: imitationleather on December 30, 2017, 06:24:43 PM
I can only recall Compo on Last of the Summer Wine doing it. I assumed it was a northern system for cooling down hot tea.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 30, 2017, 06:32:59 PM
All old people did it when I was a kid, it was a common thing and yes simply a way of drinking some tea before it had cooled down.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Replies From View on December 30, 2017, 06:44:20 PM
If you didn't have a saucer you could sip it off your trousers, as long as you could spill it onto a part of them that was sufficiently close to your mouth.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Uncle TechTip on December 30, 2017, 06:50:38 PM
Does anyone think that To Hull and Back would have stood up to a cinema release? I don't see any difference between it and say George and Mildred or Porridge, except that it wasn't financed independently. Would have been perfect and I always wonder it would have been successful. Perhaps the failures of eg G&M did it for this idea.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: biggytitbo on December 30, 2017, 07:01:58 PM
The fact the whole thing was shot on 35mm, including the interiors does suggest they might have thought about releasing it as a film. It certainly compares quite favourably production wise with something like Clockwise from the same year.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Malcy on December 31, 2017, 12:28:31 PM
I watched all these hoping to see loads of old unseen footage. Even the stuff that was 'never before seen ever ever' I had seen nearly 20 years ago having downloaded them from some torrent site like the oil rig thing and the video for the soldiers.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Catalogue Trousers on December 31, 2017, 11:50:54 PM
Quote
I agree that the Damien stuff doesn't really work, although it's almost worth it for the music stings from The Omen. Was that film our around that time?

The final Omen cinema film disregarding tame made-for-TV rubbish and pointless remakes, The Final Conflict, was released in 1981, a full decade prior to Damien's first appearance on the show. However, the films had received heavy circulation on terrestrial telly in that time, so they were still pretty valid as a pop culture touchstone.

The real disgrace is that they didn't use any of Jerry Goldsmith's score for The Omen. They used snatches of Orff's Carmina Burana, best known then for its use in Old Spice adverts and Excalibur.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on January 14, 2018, 09:39:31 PM
I've just watched A Royal Flush after checking if the cut on Netflix was any different to my DVD, but both are the edit with the laugh track added and, supposedly, much nastiness removed.

Can anyone tell me what was cut out that John Sullivan was so ashamed of?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Tony Yeboah on January 14, 2018, 11:33:40 PM
I've just watched A Royal Flush after checking if the cut on Netflix was any different to my DVD, but both are the edit with the laugh track added and, supposedly, much nastiness removed.

Can anyone tell me what was cut out that John Sullivan was so ashamed of?

This topic comes up a lot but I think this may be the full version if anyone can be bothered to compare the two. Certainly there were bits cut out of the opera scene where Del acts incredibly boorishly.  https://ok.ru/video/331653581537

The end scene was apparently recorded at the last minute and is quite unpleasant, just Del being a bully. The one redeeming feature of the episode is Vicky who is very fanciable.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Paul Calf on January 15, 2018, 12:00:58 AM
Are the DVD releases edited much? Whats the best way to go about watching complete episodes from the first few series?

The iTunes versions are generally intact.

EDIT: I mean, more intact than the DVD\repeat channel releases.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on January 15, 2018, 12:02:10 AM
I think the old magazine collection series is mostly unedited too.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Ignatius_S on January 15, 2018, 01:09:09 PM
I've just watched A Royal Flush after checking if the cut on Netflix was any different to my DVD, but both are the edit with the laugh track added and, supposedly, much nastiness removed.

Can anyone tell me what was cut out that John Sullivan was so ashamed of?

http://www.ofah.net has some good information there – in a previous thread, there was another online resource that was absolutely brilliant for cut information, but it’s no longer available.

This review - http://www.ofah.net/blog/royal-flush-episode-review/ - makes a point (one that I’ve read elsewhere) that Sullivan wasn’t able to do his usual rewriting and wasn’t on set, due to working on Just Good Friends. Additionally, Sullivan was also writing Dear John around the same time – that’s an incredible amount of work for one writer and it’s not surprising that Sullivan might have thought that some work could have been executed better.

I was going to mention the reaction to the cringe comedy at the time so just going to crib something I’ve previously mentioned as that also covers something else I was going to mention – in A Royal Flush, Del’s character isn’t drastically rewritten.

I remember on This Morning, Nina Myskow praised it during a phone-in, whilst (as far as I remember) every caller, who talked about the episode, criticised it. In particular, it was the dinner scene that drew the most ire – people really didn’t seem to like the overwhelmingly cringing element.

[In response to another post]
Personally, I feel it’s all true to form for Del – he can’t just let his brother get on with the friendship, he has to interfere.

Although Del certainly has a strong belief in family ties, I would also say that there are more than a few episodes where he’s shown to see Rodney as little more than a resource to exploit. All too often, his attitude is what’s good for me, is good for the Trotters.

In Slow Bus to Chingford, Del gets Rodney to act as an unpaid night watchman so they can use a bus for free, so they can run a tour for tourists – naturally, he expects Rodney to be working in the day as the driver. On the pretence of keeping on eye on Rodney’s girlfriend while he’s working nights, Del starts taking her out. Earlier in the episode, Rodney looks like a sure thing with the girl, until Del turns up at the flat and ruins Rodney’s chances, but not before taken the mickey out of Rodney and treated him like a little kid in front of the woman.

I would say more than a few jokes Del makes at Rodney’s expense, in earlier series, are meant to belittle him and damage his self-confidence. Del can be an emotional bully – in A Royal Flush, when Del is callously squeezing Rodney’s hand, arguably he’s showing his true colours.

*edit* Pretty sure I was wrong about This Morning being the show that Myskow discussed the episode.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Ignatius_S on January 15, 2018, 01:13:56 PM
The iTunes versions are generally intact.

EDIT: I mean, more intact than the DVD\repeat channel releases.

IIRC, it tends to be the BBC repeats that have the most cuts – there have been episodes on Gold that have lines cut from the BBC broadcasts.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on January 15, 2018, 01:56:51 PM
Thanks for the links there.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: purlieu on January 15, 2018, 02:32:56 PM
Slow Bus to Chingford is another episode which makes me a bit uncomfortable, although not quite as much as A Royal Flush. I suppose because the bus scenario is a fairly daft sitcom setup which adds a lighter touch to it all, but also because in A Royal Flush, Rodney potentially has the opportunity to escape from Del's influence in a big way. I'm not convinced that relationship would have necessarily worked anyway, but if it had, Rodney wouldn't have needed Del for financial support, which is always something that hangs over him.

Now, I'm not sure which version of A Royal Flush I've seen, because the one I downloaded a couple of years back didn't have a laugh track, but I'm sure I compared times, and it wasn't as long as the original. But the lack of laugh track actually makes if horribly uncomfortable viewing.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on January 15, 2018, 03:35:33 PM
Yeah, I hadn't considered how much more awful it would make it. There's a lot of tension released with that laughter punctuating everything.

I'm only working my way through these now and I've not seen anything from where I'm at (about to watch Dates) up until Time on our Hands. I like how the show occasionally has moments where other sitcoms have trained you to expect a round of applause ("heroes fit for homes" being the main example) but they just let them linger silently, usually with a moment showcasing Rodney's innocence to break the tension with an easy but warmly handled and very welcome laugh.

It is very very good. Only one I've not enjoyed so far is To Hull and Back. I'm also not looking forward much to Miami Twice, which sounds a bit far-fetched.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Utter Shit on January 15, 2018, 04:37:39 PM
Miami Twice is good for the first half - not brilliant, but a fairly standard Fools and Horses episode set in the flat and surrounding areas as usual. It's only when they get to Miami that it goes to pot. To be honest I don't think it would be anywhere near as bad if David Jason could do an American accent - the accent is so bad it completely breaks any possible chance you have of suspending your disbelief that they're different people.

It does have one of my favourite OFAH lines in it - Rodney refusing to go to Miami with Del citing previous bad behaviour on their travels, "you seem to forget, I've been on holiday with you before[...]you got drunk, you shouted things at women, you got us into fight", leading to Del's amused, baffled response of "we were on holiday!"...does a great job of summing up the sort of person Del is.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: purlieu on January 15, 2018, 11:51:37 PM
Yeah, the first half of Miami Twice is perfectly watchable. The second half feels like a bit of a shark jump really, just barges past the barriers of believability, guns blazing.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Glebe on January 17, 2018, 01:30:05 AM
The ending of the non-laugh track version of 'A Royal Flush' is particularly weird, with Del torturing Rodney's hand to the sound of utter silence!

'Miami Twice: Oh to Be in England' never felt right to me. It feels like a dodgy attempt to do an American comedy movie, and it just doesn't really work. The jet ski gag would probably be a lot funnier and more charming in a 'normal' episode, for instance. And Mafia Del gets a bit embarrassing after awhile.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: toetoe on December 21, 2018, 10:12:37 PM
Telegraph is ranking all OFAH christmas specials on their page

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/fools-horses-every-christmas-special-ranked-worst-best/

For those of us who wont register even for free, anyone got the list?
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: magval on December 21, 2018, 11:08:21 PM
Happy Christmas boss.


18. If They Could See Us Now (2001)

Which One Is This? The Trotters lose their fortune and end up back in Nelson Mandela House.

You Plonker! Five years after Del and Rodney walked off into the sunset as millionaires, they make an ill-advised comeback with this episode – spoiling their perfect happy ending.

Bonne De Douche! It’s more a series of sketches than an actual story: the Trotters attend the wrong funeral after Uncle Albert dies; Del Boy goes on a game show; Rodney and Cassandra do fantasy role play as a gladiator and policewoman.

42-Carat Moment? Del Boy – bankrupt and disqualified from running a business – cons eternal dipstick Rodney into taking over Trotters Independent Traders. A flash of the old Del Boy magic.

17. Strangers on the Shore (2002)

Which One Is This? Del Boy and Rodders attend a naval reunion in France on behalf of Albert but accidentally smuggle back a foreigner they call “Gary”.

Chateauneuf Du Pape! This second comeback episode is slightly better. But not by much – and Gary is bordering on racist.

You Plonker! Del’s teenage son Damien is beyond cringe-worthy. If you ever wondered what a 55-year-old white man thinks gangster rap is, see it here in John Sullivan’s writing.

42-Carat Moment? There are a lot of bearded men in the French town where Albert was stationed during the war. It looks like he was up to more than just being torpedoed.

16. Sleepless In Peckham (2003)

Which One Is This? Del Boy has just a few days to pay off the Inland Revenue or they lose the flat. Meanwhile, Cassandra is ready to give birth and letters from a mystery solicitor pile up.

Bonjour! This was the Trotters’ final goodbye, and they go out tugging the heartstrings as hard as they can.

He Who Dares! Rodney discovers his real father was in fact “Freddy the Frog”. It’s a twist that pays off, if you can excuse the crafty continuity tinkering.

42-Carat Moment? Albert leaves them £200,000 in his will and Rodney becomes a father – tear-jerking moments, even if you don’t count these comebacks as “proper” Fools & Horses.

15. A Royal Flush (1986)

Which One Is This? Rodney meets “posh sort” Vicky, who turns out to be a Duke’s daughter. But Del’s interfering spoils it for Rodders.

Shut Up You Tart! This is Del at his absolute worst. Crass and overbearing, he invites himself to the Duke’s stately home and tramples all over Rodney’s love life. It’s painfully uncomfortable.

Bunch Of Wallies! Production ran out of time to film this in front of an audience – and it was still being edited on Christmas Eve. A shorter version was released in 2004, with added laughter track and edited-down Del Boy.

42-Carat Moment? Del turns up to a clay pigeon shoot with a pump-action shotgun.

14. Miami Twice (1991)

Which One Is This? The brothers go to Florida and the mafia tries to assassinate Del Boy.

Chateauneuf du Pape! This two-parter is the obligatory “characters go on holiday” Christmas special and begins an era of more far-fetched stories.

Lovely Jubbly! There are some great gags. Del reveals that he’s tricked Rodney into going on holiday so he can escape a load of Romanian Riesling he’s bought by mistake.

42-Carat Moment? Del and Rodney see Barry Gibb doing a spot of gardening in Miami, prompting Del to sing “How Deep Is You Love?” at top volume.

13. Christmas Crackers (1981)

Which One Is This? Granddad ruins the turkey and Del and Rodney go clubbing on Christmas night.

Bonne De Douche! John Sullivan said this script was hastily written for the sake of doing a special for the first series. But there’s a nostalgic charm to these very early episodes.

Lovely Jubbly! The banter between the original trio is pukka, even this early on, before the show had found its rhythm. “Slightly underdone?” says Rodney about Granddad’s cooking. “I reckon the kiss of life would revive that turkey.”

42-Carat Moment? They realise Granddad has cooked the turkey with the giblets-in-plastic still inside.

12. Diamonds Are For Heather (1982)

Which One Is This? Del gets a taste of family life when he meets Heather and her three-year-old son.

Mais Oui! The greatest myth about Derek Trotter is that he’s a one-note, catchphrase-spouting character. But this melancholy episode reveals an emotional depth.

Bonjour! Heather leaves after turning down Del’s marriage proposal. Del Boy has always wanted a family but has spent his entire adult life looking after his dipstick brother Rodney.

42-Carat Moment? A heartbroken Del slips some Christmas carolers a fiver to sing his favourite song about a dead dog – Old Shep by Elvis.

11. Rodney Come Home (1990)

Which One Is This? Rodney and Cassandra’s marriage is on the rocks so Rodders is back living with Del Boy.

Au Revoir! Raquel moves into the flat to become a permanent cast member. But she’s in the spare room until Del can pluck up the courage to ask her in his bed.

Bonne De Douche! Not much happens here (it feels like Fools & Horses was booked in for Christmas Day without any solid story ideas). But it says a lot about Del’s – and to some extent, the show’s – archaic attitudes about men and women.

42-Carat Moment: Albert tries to feign shock over Rodney taking another girl to the pictures, but keeps getting it wrong. One of the series’ best jokes and David Jason almost cracks up.

10. Modern Men (1996)

Which One Is This? Rodney and Cassandra are expecting a baby, and Del – inspired by a book about what it means to be a modern man – announces that he’s having a vasectomy.

You Plonker!A sub-plot about Del Boy wanting to create a turban/crash helmet for motorcycle-riding Sikhs has aged very badly.

A Fait Acopian! It’s the weakest episode of the original farewell trilogy but delivers Fools & Horses’ most tragic moment when Cassandra miscarries.

42-Carat Moment? Del gives Rodney a man-to-man chat about how he has to be strong and not cry in front of Cassandra – hardly modern men, then – but bursts into tears himself.

9. To Hull And Back (1985)

Which One Is This? The Trotters go to Amsterdam to do a bit of diamond smuggling for Boycie.

You Plonker! Jim Broadbent is fun as recurring villain DCI Slater. A crafty, conniving bent copper, he’s the anti-Del (appropriate as Broadbent was original choice for Del Boy).

Cushty! It’s feature-length and the first episode filmed without an audience, so feels different – but is still very much classic Fools & Horses.

42-Carat Moment? Trigger on the pull at the very start of the episode. “Alright darling, where you been all my life? I always use that line… I don’t know why, it’s never worked.”

8. Time On Our Hands (1996)

Which One Is This? Raquel’s estranged parents come to dinner, and Del unearths an old watch that might be worth a few quid.

This Time Next Year! The Trotters finally become millionaires. It’s genuinely feel-good plus there’s some enjoyable nostalgic wallowing in the show’s own history.

Bonjour! Del, Rodney, and Albert walk off into the sunset. If only they hadn’t walked back again five years later.

42-Carat Moment? There’s a touching scene earlier in the show, as Del forces Rodney to face up to losing his baby. “It’s just a dropped stitch in life’s tapestry, that’s what mum used to say,” Del says.

7. The Frog’s Legacy (1987)

Which One Is This? Del learns about Freddy The Frog, a gentleman thief who left their dear old mum £1 million in gold. What a shame nobody knows where it’s hidden.

Lovely Jubbly! This get-rich-quick tale is perhaps the archetypal Fools & Horses episode, but its real strength is how it adds layers to the show’s mythos – the Trotter family history, background characters, and the original idea that Freddy might be Rodders’ real father.

Cushty! This was also the basis of the surprisingly decent prequel Rock ‘n’ Chips.

42-Carat Moment? Albert pretending to have chronic backache, then tap dancing in the market after a blast from Del’s dodgy infrared back massagers.

6. Fatal Extraction (1993)

Which One Is This? Raquel leaves Del and there are riots on the estate.

He Who Dares! Though relatively late in the series’ run, this is classic, wheeling-dealing stuff from Del Boy. He asks out the first woman he meets after Raquel walks out just to prove he can still pull, starts a riot with his drunken singing, and then sells the rioters some hooky ski gear.

Bonne De Douche! There’s a great Fatal Attraction pastiche when Del thinks his would-be date has started stalking him.

42-Carat Moment? Del Boy is horrified when he comes home to find something boiling on the stove – not a bunny, but Albert’s old pants.

5. Heroes & Villains (1996)

Which One Is This? Del Boy is refused a council grant, but he’s eyeing up first prize at a fancy dress party.

Chateauneuf Du Pape! It’s been three years since the last episode and the production values have gone up. Someone’s even spent a monkey (or thereabouts) on a futuristic dream sequence.

Lovely Jubbly! But it still feels like Fools & Horses, something the later comeback episodes failed to do.

42-Carat Moment? Del and Rodney dash through the streets dressed as Batman and Robin, and chase of a gang of muggers. An instantly-classic scene.

4. Thicker Than Water (1983)

Which One Is This? Reg Trotter comes back after abandoning them 18 years earlier – and he has a devious plan to oust Del Boy from the family.

He Who Dares! It was a risk bringing the Trotters’ father into the show, but it works. Peter Woodthorpe is perfectly cast as Del Boy’s old man.

Cushty! But it’s David Jason who makes this episode. Much more than just a comedy performance, his intensity when he confronts Reg after all these years creates real drama.

42-Carat Moment? In the final scene, Del Boy tucks a wad of notes into Reg’s pocket before throwing him out for good. A touching character detail.

3. Mother Nature’s Son (1992)

Which One Is This? The Trotters get into the health food boom with the Peckham Spring. Except it’s not from a spring, it’s from the tap in Del Boy’s kitchen.

Bonne De Douche! Following Miami Twice, it’s another silly plot, but an example of how astutely Fools & Horses reacted to what was happening culturally in Britain.

You Plonker! There’s a great scene with Del’s old stock/junk: men’s wigs, Bros LPs, royal wedding plates, Romanian Riesling, and Free Nelson Mandela t-shirts.

42-Carat Moment? Del Boy’s first ever time in an organic health food shop. “It’s nice to know everything on your plate was once under a pile of horse s**t”.

2. The Jolly Boys Outing (1989)

Which One Is This? The Nag’s Head lot go on a beano to Margate, but their coach blows up thanks to Del’s faulty car radio.

Lovely Jubbly! This is Fools & Horses at its most fun. It’s big laugh after big laugh, from Rodney and Cassandra hosting a dinner party for her yuppie boss (wannabe yuppie Del vs actual yuppie is pure gold) to the jolly boys’ tour of Margate.

Au Revoir! It’s also the episode where Del meets Raquel again, now working as a magician’s assistant in a Margate nightclub. Del punches the magician, naturally.

42-Carat Moment? Inspired by Del’s machismo, Rodney goes home and punches Cassandra’s boss.

1. Dates (1988)

Which One Is This? Del Boy meets Raquel – but he’s humiliated when she turns out be the stripper he booked for Albert’s birthday.

Cushty! Not just the best Christmas special, but the best Fools & Horses ever.

You Plonker! Del meets Raquel through a dating agency. Derek’s specifications – “She’s got to be a bit of a sort” – are hilarious, but there’s an underlying sense that he’s getting older. Pulling birds isn’t as easy as it used to be.

42-Carat Moment? Del Boy misses out on his chance to rekindle his romance with Raquel when he’s unexpectedly arrested over another police/stripper mix up.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: toetoe on December 21, 2018, 11:16:59 PM
Brilliant, magval.

Surprised the early 90's specials is so highly rated.

A Royal Flush(With Evil Del) and the millenium specials(with the atrocious actor playing Damien) at the bottom
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Replies From View on December 22, 2018, 01:46:42 PM
The one redeeming feature of the episode is Vicky who is very fanciable.

Cassandra is essentially a shitified version of her, isn't she.
Title: Re: A new Fools and Horses thread.
Post by: Phil_A on January 11, 2019, 01:07:45 AM
If anyone's still looking for the uncut Royal Flush, I can upload it...somewhere. The reason being I found the DVD Collection version in a charity shop today.