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Forums => Picture Box => Topic started by: Mister Six on June 06, 2018, 01:56:17 PM

Title: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on June 06, 2018, 01:56:17 PM
Good things come in threes, that's what they say, right? Erm.

Anyway, as the second thread has reached 100 pages, I thought it best to migrate the little nuggets of conversation that continue to emerge into a new thread. Also I wanted to continue the punctuation convention from the other two.

For posterity, here's the first thread (https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,34376.0.html) and here's the second (https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,61564.0.html).

Can't believe it's been more than a year since The Return, er, returned. Showtime is now pushing for Emmys, in what will be, sadly, the last hurrah for the show (at least until season four - ha!).

Oddly enough they're trying to get Lynch an acting nomination, along with Michel Horse, Robert Forster, Miguel Ferrer, Naomi Watts, Kyle Maclachlan, Laura Dern and (of course) Kyle Maclachlan. You can see the For Your Consideration videos here (http://www.indiewire.com/2018/06/twin-peaks-david-lynch-emmys-acting-directing-1201971384/). Lynch will be up for the directing Emmy too.

Shocked that they didn't push for Grace Zabriskie to get one though. Granted, she had less screen time than the others, but by God, what she had she really owned.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on June 06, 2018, 02:35:28 PM
Oh, and at risk of turning this into a general Lynch thread (but why not?), here's a Rolling Stone article (https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/lists/david-lynchs-festival-of-disruption-20-things-we-learned-w520570) about various takeaways from Lynch's Festival of Disruption, which was held in New York a few weeks ago.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: saltysnacks on June 06, 2018, 09:46:44 PM
Lynch shouldn't really be nominated for acting, he isn't a good actor at all. I'm happy that Kyle Mucklocklun is nominated twice though.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shaky on June 06, 2018, 11:49:25 PM
Lynch shouldn't really be nominated for acting, he isn't a good actor at all. I'm happy that Kyle Mucklocklun is nominated twice though.

I agree he shouldn't have been nominated for acting among the others there but it's good performance with some hidden depths. Cole was traditionally more of a comic relief part but he had some very solid, understated "serious" bits in the recent series.

Also: Lynch was great in Louie.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: saltysnacks on June 06, 2018, 11:56:27 PM
I agree he shouldn't have been nominated for acting among the others there but it's good performance with some hidden depths. Cole was traditionally more of a comic relief part but he had some very solid, understated "serious" bits in the recent series.

Also: Lynch was great in Louie.

I'll amend my comment a little, he has limited range.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mark Steels Stockbroker on June 13, 2018, 09:49:04 AM
The Cooper who leaves the motel in ep18 is Bad Cooper trying to pass as Good Cooper. Look closely at his eyes.

That's why the car he leaves in is the one BC was driving when he fell sick.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mark Steels Stockbroker on June 13, 2018, 09:52:15 AM
The crucial scene is when Good Cooper meets the eyeless woman before he leaves the Lodge to become Dougie. The phase is shifting because 2 timelines are overlapped. When she pulls the lever she resolves which one he is in. The eyeless woman is Laura between being saved by GC and leaving to become Carrie Page. The number on the exit door is significant.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Sin Agog on June 13, 2018, 09:56:54 AM
Lynch shouldn't really be nominated for acting, he isn't a good actor at all. I'm happy that Kyle Mucklocklun is nominated twice though.

Hmmph.  He had an occasional heartbreaking vulnerable twinkle in his eye in the last season.  You see it and you can't tell if it's the look of pre-emptive nostalgia from a chuckling puppeteer about to see his marionettes put to rest, or a fragile old man who's seen too much pain.  I'll take that performance over anything Meryl Streep's ever done.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 13, 2018, 10:10:05 PM
Lynch interviewed on Deadline (https://deadline.com/2018/06/twin-peaks-the-return-david-lynch-interview-showtime-emmys-news-1202407985/)

Quote
Does he have any movie projects or more TV projects lined up?

“I don’t. I have a box of ideas, and I’m working with producer Sabrina Sutherland, kind of trying to go through and see if there’s any gold in those boxes.”

Has he finished forever with the world of Twin Peaks?

“Well, for right now, you could say I don’t want to talk about that,” he says flatly.

Could Agent Cooper return to solve another Blue Rose mystery?

“If I don’t want to talk about it, I can’t even answer that.”

Sounds like they're prepping something new in Lynch HQ!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on June 13, 2018, 10:29:38 PM
Hmm, not wanting to talk about it is certainly suspicious. Cooper and Carrie being in another place gives Lynch an opportunity to explain away the absence of dead cast members and jettison any others deemed unnecessary to the story.

Maybe a film or a mini series could be produced rather than a full 18 episode season? I'd love to get more. I loved how it ended but it's tempting to get more clues on what's going on with Cooper and Carrie. The theory above about it being bad Cooper pretending to be good Cooper is an interesting one that I think is hard to find flaws in (unless you take bad Cooper being burnt to fuck in that chair at the start of 18 to be his definitive death, and I don't know that there's any clue as to how he'd get out of that - though I do constantly wonder about that shot of the Jumping Man / Sarah running down the stairs as Cooper and Mike go up them).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: TwinPeaks on June 14, 2018, 01:20:39 AM
Quote
Why would he want to do that—to weed out the people he didn’t want to watch the show? Again, Lynch rebuts the question. “No, no,” he insists. “Again, it’s the ideas. The ideas present a kind of flow of how it’s going to unfold, and the ideas tell you each scene and each character. And you just follow the ideas.”
I'm glad he put that to rest. Always thought it was a bit cynical to assume David Lynch was putting things in just to upset these cherry pie-loving Audrey-fan philistines that apparently shouldn't be allowed to enjoy the aspects of Twin Peaks that spoke to them the most.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on June 14, 2018, 01:31:05 AM
Lynch has an impish sense of humour but I don't think he's ever been mean-spirited towards the fans, even if he didn't give them exactly what they want.

I loved how it ended but it's tempting to get more clues on what's going on with Cooper and Carrie.

I feel the same way - but of course, Lynch will only raise more questions and conundrums (conundra?).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 14, 2018, 01:52:27 AM
The theory above about it being bad Cooper pretending to be good Cooper is an interesting one that I think is hard to find flaws in (unless you take bad Cooper being burnt to fuck in that chair at the start of 18 to be his definitive death, and I don't know that there's any clue as to how he'd get out of that - though I do constantly wonder about that shot of the Jumping Man / Sarah running down the stairs as Cooper and Mike go up them).

A recent interview with Kyle Maclachlan suggested it was a confused mixture of Coop, Dougie and Mr C.
I got a sense of this when I originally saw it, particularly the diner scene.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on June 14, 2018, 03:11:07 AM
A recent interview with Kyle Maclachlan suggested it was a confused mixture of Coop, Dougie and Mr C.
I got a sense of this when I originally saw it, particularly the diner scene.

I know, but I think the question is why that is; another two popular theories to that end are: the two sides of Cooper are merged, or it's "real" Cooper as opposed to "TV" Cooper. Bad Coop pretending to be good Coop is a good alternative to both. I'm not entirely satisfied with any I've heard, but my memory of the series is dim now. I need to get to a rewatch soon.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 14, 2018, 10:34:36 AM
We grew so familiar with these different versions of Cooper, in something like a dream, that it seems wrong when they're jumbled into one character, but I believe that Odessa Cooper is the closest thing to a true Cooper after spending 25 years in the lodge and being flung around in time and space a la Philip Jeffries.
Perhaps Cooper's true objective before Odessa was to send Bad Coop back so they could merge as one, sans BOB.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: drdad on June 14, 2018, 11:01:47 AM
It's equally fascinating and frustrating to try and tease out these tiny clues
 There seems to be a definite coherent solution lurking somewhere in there. I definitely don't want it spelt out for me, though.  It was quite disappointing at the start of Part 17 when Lynch/Cole sat down and spelt out the meaning of 'Judy' a bit too literally.  On the other hand, I don't want a load of gibberish like INLAND EMPIRE.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Obel on June 14, 2018, 11:18:41 AM
It's weird that you guys started talking about the new Coop as I randomly decided to watch the last episode of Twin Peaks last night. The diner scene is when you really first realise that it's not the Cooper we know, the way he barely acknowledges the waitress when she pours him coffee is immediately troubling. It's a brilliant performance by Kyle really, he seems to flitter back and forth between the Cooper personas before settling on something altogether different at the Palmer/Tremond household. "What year is it?" is such a devastating moment, especially considering Phillip Jefferies exasperation at the date when he's in Gordon Cole's office. Whew, what a way to end Twin Peaks!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Wet Blanket on June 14, 2018, 11:28:10 AM
I loved that final, melancholy episode. It reminded me of the end of Mullholland Drive, it's as if Coop the cartoony FBI agent from the series has found himself in the drab real world and doesn't quite understand how to fit in.

I hope he isn't convinced to make a fourth series. It's such a great enigma to leave it on. For me, a fourth series would be like repeating the same magic trick; adding any sort of elaboration on those final episodes, even a similarly bizarre one, would spoil it. Plus, in practical terms, even more cast members are now dead.

From that Deadline interview it sounds like if he could get away with it he'd make another feature film, and this is also what I want from him. 
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: phantom_power on June 14, 2018, 12:48:10 PM
I still have a feeling that Lynch films, and Twin Peaks: The Return in particular, are like moving Rorschach tests that say as much about the viewer as the creator. I think Lynch is a lover of abstract, dreamlike imagery without necessarily any solid reasoning behind it and people like to fill in the gaps that aren't really there, or rather they are there but are shaped to fit whatever theory you think to have.

I know that doesn't do much for discussion though, and I do enjoy hearing all the theories
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: drdad on June 14, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
I still have a feeling that Lynch films, and Twin Peaks: The Return in particular, are like moving Rorschach tests that say as much about the viewer as the creator. I think Lynch is a lover of abstract, dreamlike imagery without necessarily any solid reasoning behind it and people like to fill in the gaps that aren't really there, or rather they are there but are shaped to fit whatever theory you think to have.

I know that doesn't do much for discussion though, and I do enjoy hearing all the theories

This is a valid point, particularly if you look at his short films, but he is also clearly very fond of clues and mystery stories. Most of his feature-length films are quite carefully plotted (again, INLAND EMPIRE is the exception for me but that looks exactly like what it was: made up as he went along).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shaky on June 14, 2018, 01:14:11 PM
I feel like Cooper's story-line is done. The audience is free to imagine him trying again and again to put things right like the decent soul he is/was or, if they prefer, he can remain trapped in some alternate bizarro land for eternity, not entirely certain of who or where he is. Or maybe Carrie's scream really did annihilate everything. It's the perfect open ending, and while Lynch undoubtedly has his own thoughts about what happened he has no interest in sharing those with others and the show's all the better for it.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: phantom_power on June 14, 2018, 03:13:38 PM
This is a valid point, particularly if you look at his short films, but he is also clearly very fond of clues and mystery stories. Most of his feature-length films are quite carefully plotted (again, INLAND EMPIRE is the exception for me but that looks exactly like what it was: made up as he went along).

This is true but it almost seems that he is more interested in the feeling of mystery rather than the actual resolution. In life you can often never be sure that a mystery has been solved and I think his films are the same, even to the extent that they are actually unsolvable. He puts things that seem like clues into the stories to ensure they can never truly be solved. I am not sure how much of this is conscious effort and how much it is just how his brain works
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Phil_A on June 14, 2018, 04:39:38 PM
This is true but it almost seems that he is more interested in the feeling of mystery rather than the actual resolution. In life you can often never be sure that a mystery has been solved and I think his films are the same, even to the extent that they are actually unsolvable. He puts things that seem like clues into the stories to ensure they can never truly be solved. I am not sure how much of this is conscious effort and how much it is just how his brain works

That does seem to fit with Lynch's methodology. In fact wasn't the plan for Twin Peaks originally going to be that they would never solve Laura's murder and the mystery would just go on forever?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mark Steels Stockbroker on June 14, 2018, 10:52:38 PM
I still have a feeling that Lynch films, and Twin Peaks: The Return in particular, are like moving Rorschach tests that say as much about the viewer as the creator. I think Lynch is a lover of abstract, dreamlike imagery without necessarily any solid reasoning behind it and people like to fill in the gaps that aren't really there, or rather they are there but are shaped to fit whatever theory you think to have.

I agree - I wrote this about an hour ago:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/jonathan-norton/golden-ball/10156198575286013/

It's interesting to look at some of the fan forums and you see people who pretty much ignore entire details like the 2nd Diane at the motel, or skirt over with a glib explanation ("it's a projection"). I think once you've committed to a particular mythos as the key to the explanation that you only see what fits that, and you read it entirely literally in terms of the chosen theory.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 14, 2018, 11:19:44 PM
That does seem to fit with Lynch's methodology. In fact wasn't the plan for Twin Peaks originally going to be that they would never solve Laura's murder and the mystery would just go on forever?

"It was the goose that lays the golden eggs"

What's extraordinary about The Return is that they somehow managed to reconstruct an even more compelling mystery from the shattered fragments of this, er, golden goose thing.
According to Lynch, although they never wanted to reveal the killer they both knew from the beginning that it was Leland what done it.
I suspect they went about about The Return in a similar fashion, with a full picture in mind, abstracting it so to be objectively indecipherable and communicating the ideas in essence.

I've finally gotten round to reading The Final Dossier and The Secret History Of Twin Peaks (in that order, oddly).
If you haven't read them yet and you plan to, ignore the following chunk.

While I didn't much care for the minutiae of Douglas Milford's extensive investigation into UFO phenomena, TSHOTP and its follow-up did add some concrete to the foundations of TP that I appreciated, almost as though to counterpoint Lynch's disruptive strangeness.
Certain details were very compelling, particularly the history of the area before it became known as Twin Peaks (Welsh/Native-American giants!!) and backstories into their inhabitants, like that Catherine, Carl were literally (or not so literally) abducted by aliens, as was Briggs later on.
Considering that Cooper, Annie and Andy (and almost Cole) have made similar brief departures which bear no resemblance to the aforementioned instances, it left me satisfyingly mystified as to how this fit together.
I'm not sure what to think of Douglas' final encounter (of a shit kind) though... If you're not familiar or you've somehow forgotten, Douglas soberly recounts his meeting with an alien, the large eyes, tiny mouth and nose sort, accompanied by Richard Nixon and Jackie Gleason (because obviously).

Even though it ventured pretty far from my idea of the show, overall I enjoyed it.
In the end, I interpreted Frost's version of Twin Peaks as the same universe, but with a shifted hue. As though all the elements of the picture interacted in the same way, but the colours were different.
I think the UFO stuff could be a projection/different visualization of the Lodge activity we know and love, but if you consider that, you might as well consider the opposite is true and then everything becomes meaningless.

In conclusion, Twin Peaks - where weird shit happens.

I'm fascinated though by the apparent rift between the way Frost presents the world in writing and the way Lynch presents the world visually.
After reading the books, although I wasn't in any doubt prior, I became doubly sure what elements of Twin Peaks were Lynch's and what were Frost's.
That said, I think they're on the same page regarding the history and rules that have been defined.
As for the all the ufology stuff, I reckon Lynch acknowledges it but he's chosen not to show it... or maybe to show it in a very different way (shifted hues, yeah?)

Anyone else read TSHOTP recently?
My first thought as I started reading it was that it must have been quite alarming to most fans anticipating the Return. I also thought it benefited significantly to read it after rather than before The Return.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on June 14, 2018, 11:25:32 PM
I've yet to read TSHOTP in detail though I've skimmed through the beginning and struggled with it to be honest as I found it a bit dull. I did finish The Final Dossier this week and quite enjoyed it, though it repeats a lot of what we already knew about various characters. And Annie's final fate is bleak, I wish Frost had done something different there.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 14, 2018, 11:41:11 PM
I've yet to read TSHOTP in detail though I've skimmed through the beginning and struggled with it to be honest as I found it a bit dull. I did finish The Final Dossier this week and quite enjoyed it, though it repeats a lot of what we already knew about various characters. And Annie's final fate is bleak, I wish Frost had done something different there.

"I'm fine."

I delight in its creepiness/bleakness.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on June 14, 2018, 11:47:21 PM
"I'm fine."

I delight in its creepiness/bleakness.

I normally do when it comes to Twin Peaks but I love Annie so much and after everything she's been through I wanted her to find some kind of happiness.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mark Steels Stockbroker on June 14, 2018, 11:52:29 PM
So they're like Clarke and Kubrick - the book version explicitly ties it to a fairly comprehensible alien civilization and its history. The film just goes for a weird atmosphere and is open to endless interpretation.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mark Steels Stockbroker on June 15, 2018, 05:53:15 AM
The Cooper who leaves the motel in ep18 is Bad Cooper trying to pass as Good Cooper. Look closely at his eyes.

That's why the car he leaves in is the one BC was driving when he fell sick.

Also why Diane has to cover his face during sex. And why he seems bemused by the "Richard" and "Linda" references in the note she leaves.

Maybe Good Cooper is in the car tailing them during the drive back to TP and gets there ahead of them? Or he got to Laura/Carrie ahead of Bad Cooper and had something to do with shooting the guy in her living room.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mark Steels Stockbroker on June 15, 2018, 06:02:31 AM
Vanity Fair had the same idea yesterday:

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/06/twin-peaks-diner-scene-kyle-maclachlan

Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 15, 2018, 11:05:48 AM
Maybe Good Cooper is in the car tailing them during the drive back to TP and gets there ahead of them? Or he got to Laura/Carrie ahead of Bad Cooper and had something to do with shooting the guy in her living room.

Oooh, that's good!!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on June 15, 2018, 11:12:24 AM
Back when the show was airing I remember we had a discussion about names - names are very important to this season in particular (see all the pointed name dropping in those various roadhouse scenes).

Richard was one that I couldn't get over - it can't be a coincidence that the doppelganger's son is named Richard, and Cooper becomes a character called Richard. You can go a couple of ways with it though: does Richard (Dick) mean Cooper in 18 is the offspring of the Bad Cooper, i.e. a product or "act" of the Bad Cooper as you say? Or is it an indication that the Richard is only half Bad Cooper? Or are Lynch & Frost using names as red herrings as they did in the original series (Mike & Bobby etc), just as they may be with numbers and that infamous flashing plane windows scene?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on June 15, 2018, 11:17:16 AM
By the way, I was a bit reluctant to post this here but fuck it: I started making Twin Peaks videos for YouTube, mainly as a record of some of the conclusions I came to as I felt sure I'd forget all the small details after a while.

https://youtu.be/RnlxFAVt7sQ

I've done two. Intended to do more but just been really lazy. Much of it is stuff I wrote about here.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 15, 2018, 12:58:48 PM
Your first video gets suggested to me all the time on YouTube.
I'll make an effort to watch it now :)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mark Steels Stockbroker on June 15, 2018, 06:38:00 PM
I now think Good Coop just goes straight back to Twin Peaks from the motel, to supervise the finale (he's the unseen figure giving answers from within the house). The tailing was by Good Diane, who radioed back in.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Desirable Industrial Unit on June 15, 2018, 11:24:43 PM
By the way, I was a bit reluctant to post this here but fuck it: I started making Twin Peaks videos for YouTube

They were great!  Do make more if you have the time.  Obviously you're completely WRONG about loads of things that I'll not be specific about, but there will never be any agreement, and it's nice to roll around theories.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on June 16, 2018, 01:01:15 AM
They were great!  Do make more if you have the time.  Obviously you're completely WRONG about loads of things that I'll not be specific about, but there will never be any agreement, and it's nice to roll around theories.

Hah, that's fine if you don't agree, I don't mind. I get loads of shirty comments from absolute tossers on youtube. The worst are the ones who say "Lynch was just making it all up as he went along!" Nothing you can say to those donuts.

As I try to stress all the time, it's just a bit of a fun and no one knows anything for certain; I'm always open to hearing opposing theories. I only felt compelled to make those videos as I wasn't seeing the stuff discussed anywhere else.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on June 24, 2018, 08:06:10 PM
David Lynch: Trump Could Be “One Of The Greatest Presidents In History” (https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jun/23/david-lynch-gotta-be-selfish-twin-peaks)

One of those things where you have to hope it meant something different in context. I'm clinging to "he means history could mistakenly record him as great".
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Old Nehamkin on June 24, 2018, 08:11:46 PM
Here's the quote in context, for convenience's sake:

Quote
Politically, meanwhile, Lynch is all over the map. He voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primary and thinks – he’s not sure – he voted Libertarian in the presidential election. “I am not really a political person, but I really like the freedom to do what you want to do,” says the persecuted Californian smoker.

He is undecided about Donald Trump. “He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history because he has disrupted the thing so much. No one is able to counter this guy in an intelligent way.” While Trump may not be doing a good job himself, Lynch thinks, he is opening up a space where other outsiders might. “Our so-called leaders can’t take the country forward, can’t get anything done. Like children, they are. Trump has shown all this.”
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on June 24, 2018, 08:22:59 PM
Just to clarify, by "in context" I mean in the context of the rest of his own words.

"He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history because he has disrupted the thing so much" on its own is troubling, but

"Trump is an extremely troubling figure and my fear is that he will be given undue credit for being so destructive. He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history because he has disrupted the thing so much" means something else entirely.

In reality, I think it's just that Lynch really doesn't think about it too much and exists outside of The Great War of Online (2016-????).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Sgt. Duckie on June 24, 2018, 08:31:19 PM
By the way, I was a bit reluctant to post this here but fuck it: I started making Twin Peaks videos for YouTube, mainly as a record of some of the conclusions I came to as I felt sure I'd forget all the small details after a while.

https://youtu.be/RnlxFAVt7sQ (https://youtu.be/RnlxFAVt7sQ)

I've done two. Intended to do more but just been really lazy. Much of it is stuff I wrote about here.


Great vids. Keep up the good work.
(http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5797312-3x2-940x627.jpg)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on June 24, 2018, 08:37:58 PM
Oh god, Kyle Maclachlan looks like he's doing a Trump impression there.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 26, 2018, 09:41:11 AM
Intercourse between two worlds...

Quote
Trump seized on the comment by the reclusive director of Blue Velvet, Eraserhead and Twin Peaks during a typically freewheeling, hour-long speech that ranged from North Korea and space rockets to facelifts and fake hair, yet made no mention of family separations at the southern border.

A Guardian article published on Saturday noted that Lynch, who voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primary, is undecided about Trump. “He could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history because he has disrupted the thing so much,” he told the paper. “No one is able to counter this guy in an intelligent way.”

The article added that Lynch thinks while Trump may not be doing a good job himself, he is opening up a space where other outsiders might. “Our so-called leaders can’t take the country forward, can’t get anything done. Like children, they are. Trump has shown all this.”

The interview gained coverage in various media outlets including the rightwing Breitbart News, formerly headed by Steve Bannon, one-time chief strategist at the White House. Its summary glided past the caveats about Lynch’s views on Trump’s job performance. It was this version that caught the eye of the president, who tweeted a link to it on Monday.

Then, at a rally in support of South Carolina governor Henry McMaster ahead of a runoff election, Trump claimed that “plenty” of people in Hollywood voted for him. Standing at the podium, reading from a print out of the article in his left hand, he first mixed up the names, saying: “’David Lynch could go down as one of the greatest presidents in history.’”

The crowd cheered anyway. Trump added: “Of course, there goes his career, right, in Hollywood.”

He then repeated for good measure from the Breitbart article: “Veteran film maker David Lynch believes President Donald Trump could be remembered as one of the greatest presidents in American history because of the way he has shaken up the political establishment.” Trump added with his own flourish: “And because of what I’ve done.”

Trump then skipped a paragraph that referenced the Guardian, Sanders and Lynch’s support for support Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson in the presidential election, continuing: “‘However, he now appears to believe because he was a Democrat or is a Democrat or something, he actually voted for Obama, ha ha, and here it says he voted for Bernie Sanders, OK? But he now says, however, ‘he now appears to believe that Trump may have been the right choice,’ after all.”

After a digression, Trump rounded off the anecdote by saying: “There’s David Lynch. Enjoy it because his career in Hollywood is officially over.”

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/26/trump-david-lynch-career-over-praise-presidency
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on June 26, 2018, 01:54:50 PM
To be fair, Lynch's career in Hollywood has been over since 1990's Wild at Heart. Everything since then has been largely produced by French companies. Maybe you could say 1999's The Straight Story, as that had Disney among the six or so production companies. That's still 20 years ago!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Monsieur Verdoux on June 26, 2018, 02:32:36 PM
The whole 'Trump namedropping David Lynch' thing has broken my brain for good, I think. We live inside a dream
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Sgt. Duckie on June 26, 2018, 02:50:23 PM
Waiting for Mark Frost's reaction, given that he spends a lot of his time re-tweeting anti-Trump articles.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Namtab on June 26, 2018, 06:05:36 PM
Lynch comes across as a bit of a knob in recent interviews, kinda sneering at stay at home Dads and saying dumb stuff about not believing in second hand smoke. I still love his work, but the man has some pretty silly views.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: rue the polywhirl on June 26, 2018, 07:10:20 PM
Can’t find anything with him sneering at stay-at-home dads and anyway if so probably necessary in case they get too cocky. Super Dads = Super Egos.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on June 26, 2018, 07:37:54 PM
Can’t find anything with him sneering at stay-at-home dads and anyway if so probably necessary in case they get too cocky. Super Dads = Super Egos.

Here's a quote from a recent interview with Vulture: http://www.vulture.com/2018/06/david-lynch-in-conversation.html

Quote
How is it being a father to a 5-year-old at 72?

See, I’m not — I’m not the greatest parent.

In what sense?

I love all my children and we get along great, but in the early years, before you can have a relationship of talking to them, it’s tough. And I would get divorced and stuff — I’ve got four kids and three divorces. The work is the main thing, and I know I’ve caused suffering because of that. But at the same time I have huge love for the kids. It’s a tricky business, because nowadays — when I was growing up, for instance, I was on a Little League baseball team and my parentsLynch’s father Donald was a research scientist for the U.S. Department of Agriculture and his mother, Edwina, was an English language tutor. The Lynch family, which also included David’s sister Martha and brother John, moved around a fair bit, spending time in Idaho, Washington, and Virginia.  never came to the games. I wouldn’t want ’em to come to the games. I didn’t want my parents to go to my high-school graduation. I wanted them to stay away.

You needed separation?

I had different worlds! Nowadays parents are involved with every single thing and there’s stay-at-home dads. It seems strange but that’s how things have changed.

Is it strange because it’s different from what you know or because you think it’s counterproductive?

Emily, my wife, sends me pictures if she’s at the park and sees a dad there. She’ll say, “Look, a dad is here” and I’ll say, “That’s a homeless man.” But I shouldn’t make fun. It’s beautiful for that man’s kid that he’s there. Everybody’s got their own way.

I don't find it problematic given the last part of the quote, but the second hand smoking thing is rather a stupid thing to say.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shaky on June 27, 2018, 12:57:59 AM
Good news! Lynch doesn't like Trump after all (I thought that was inferable from his previous comments but he spells it out this time):

(https://i.imgur.com/HhtUoWp.png?1)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: newbridge on June 27, 2018, 01:05:42 AM
This is such a ridiculous non-story. The original interview clearly specified that Lynch thinks Trump is doing a shit job, but he could end up being "great" because he exposes how the entire system is shit.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Howj Begg on June 27, 2018, 01:05:59 AM
https://twitter.com/robbiereviews/status/1011594673620750341

Quote
Robbie Collin
@robbiereviews

We may never understand the appeal to David Lynch of a presidency that, using kitsch and dream logic, has transformed ordinary American life into a phantasmagorical hellscape

5:58 AM - 26 Jun 2018
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Ja'moke on June 27, 2018, 02:26:56 AM
This is such a ridiculous non-story. The original interview clearly specified that Lynch thinks Trump is doing a shit job, but he could end up being "great" because he exposes how the entire system is shit.

Yeah, it was clear what he meant in the original interview, but websites just cherry pick and change the context and then act all confused. It’s happening more and more often.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: phantom_power on June 27, 2018, 08:32:08 AM
This is such a ridiculous non-story. The original interview clearly specified that Lynch thinks Trump is doing a shit job, but he could end up being "great" because he exposes how the entire system is shit.

I am not sure that is what he meant. I think he meant that he had the capacity to be great because he wasn't playing by the rules that all previous presidents have played by. He is currently using that freedom to wreak chaos and misery but if he set his sights on goodness he could do the opposite. That was my reading of his clarification at least
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shameless Custard on June 27, 2018, 07:12:09 PM
Hurrah, Lynch writes to Trump:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BkiP2G_H67K/
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shaky on June 28, 2018, 12:11:04 AM
Look further up the thread...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shameless Custard on June 28, 2018, 07:58:11 AM
Sorry, I tend to read the board on't phone, so I don't see any posted pics!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Ja'moke on June 28, 2018, 07:54:06 PM
Lynch was spotted at Netflix HQ this week: https://twitter.com/TwinPeaksArchve/status/1012330640623058944

Would love Netflix to fund a new Lynch film.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shameless Custard on June 28, 2018, 08:15:18 PM
OR MORE TWIN PEAKS
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on June 28, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
Bloke reckons he's found a time distortion near Las Vegas (https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2018/06/28/time-warp-las-vegas-paranormal-investigator/).

Maybe he should look around Buckhorn, South Dakota too.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on June 29, 2018, 10:58:01 AM
OR MORE TWIN PEAKS

Wouldn't Frost have been there too?
That's a genuine question, since reading the Twin Peaks books I've wanted to know more about Frost's involvement.
I haven't read Room to Dream yet but I heard a lengthy snippet regarding the Showtime deal and it made no mention of Frost, while the project was at risk of losing Lynch or being canned.
Did he have any say? Did execs even meet with Frost?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: gout_pony on July 22, 2018, 08:43:38 PM
This is probably more of a Frost than a Lynch thing...

Dr. Jacoby is loosely based upon Terence McKenna, right? Well, McKenna believed the atom bomb to be as the starting point of the last 67.29 year cycle of life until the singularity!

(obviously, the good doctor was proved wrong, but I do wonder if it was an influence - there are definitely some intriguing intersections between McKenna's ideas and Twin Peaks)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on August 24, 2018, 01:35:39 PM
Almost a year since first watching The Return it still occupies a large presence in my general thoughts and daydreams.
Every now and then I'll come across something that seems to describes or reminds me of elements from Twin Peaks, and the excitement I get from it is wonderful.

The other day I started reading the the first book of Confessions by St Augustine of Hippo, a Numidian theologian and philosopher from the 4th century (a wild departure from my usual reading habits).
The actual book I found pretty impenetrable (I haven't returned to it since), but the foreword which biographed the author was fascinating.
Not least due to the subject's involvement, before becoming a Christian, with a theology that until then I'd never come across called Manichaeism.
The description of this religion was so evocative of Twin Peaks lore that I would have fallen off my chair had I not been lying on a bed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism

I know it's not all that different to broader, more familiar notions of Gnosticism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism) (of which I only have the vaguest understanding of). Abstract notions of light and darkness and duologies that seem to permeate our existence* were nothing new to me either, but the way it was written about in this book - connecting this ancient, dead philosophy with this weird little TV show that I continue to be obsessed by - was really thrilling.

* It almost appears that they had an intuition for the supposed nature of matter and anti-matter, long before modern-science or any basis of understanding, which is also fascinating to me.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shameless Custard on August 24, 2018, 05:21:37 PM
Just a heads up that the DVD and Blu-rizzle of the third series are currently on sale on the Amazons.

DVD - 15 pebbles
Blu - 22.49
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: rue the polywhirl on August 24, 2018, 07:02:48 PM
Just a heads up that the DVD and Blu-rizzle of the third series are currently on sale on the Amazons.

DVD - 15 pebbles
Blu - 22.49

Also available at HMV. Support the High Street. I know Amazon clicks support this site but the extra money that you do or not save should be made as a direct donation instead as a means of providing better support for CooBo.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: mothman on August 24, 2018, 11:23:13 PM
Is it bad that I can never hear St. Augustine of Hippo mentioned without thinking about how he felt after his conversion by Ambrose of Milan?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Dog Botherer on September 03, 2018, 09:56:37 PM
Anyone got any Twin Peaks podcast recommendations? Started yet another rewatch and thought it’d be fun to listen to the thoughts of others doing the same.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Ja'moke on September 03, 2018, 10:10:51 PM
Anyone got any Twin Peaks podcast recommendations? Started yet another rewatch and thought it’d be fun to listen to the thoughts of others doing the same.

Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich of EW just did a rewatch and made a new podcast about it: https://art19.com/shows/twin-peaks-podcast
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Dog Botherer on September 04, 2018, 01:47:05 AM
Jeff Jensen and Darren Franich of EW just did a rewatch and made a new podcast about it: https://art19.com/shows/twin-peaks-podcast

That’ll do nicely, thanks!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: sevendaughters on September 04, 2018, 12:13:34 PM
Alan Moore: not a fan of TP:TR

Quote
DB: I don’t recall ever seeing anything else like that ending here in the U.S. except perhaps for the season-two finale of Twin Peaks. I’m wondering if that was a show you watched, and if so what your thoughts are about it — especially the ending. (I’m also interested in your thoughts on the recent Season Three, if you watched and are inclined to comment).

AM: Yes, I was a huge admirer of the first two seasons of Twin Peaks. I greatly enjoyed season two’s closing episode, and subsequently arrived at an interpretation of Fire, Walk With Me that, to me, was satisfying and answered all of my really important questions about the series. At the end of last year I watched the box-set of season three, and without wishing to denigrate all of the perfectly legitimate reasons why people loved that (presumably) final season, I’d have to say that with the exception of a few arresting images and atmospheres, I kind of wish I hadn’t bothered. Elements that I either hadn’t noticed or which hadn’t especially bothered me the first time, like the fact that the titular town is presumably twinned with Midsomer in that both have tons of bizarre murders and absolutely no black people, seemed a lot more intrusive in season three.

Another thing that stood out was Lynch’s customary Bizarro-Republican stance, whereby the intrusive supernatural evil in his stories always seems to be firmly rooted in the underclass. Structurally, it also seemed that there was rather a lot of irrelevant padding, notably the slapstick “Dougie Jones” digression, which didn’t seem to have anything atmospherically or thematically to connect it to the main narrative in any meaningful way.

Overall it seemed to me, as a large amount of Lynch’s later work does, to be relying on disconnected set-pieces and ultimately not saying very much. This may, of course, be a fault with me rather than with David Lynch, but while some of the most arresting and affecting moments in Lynch’s work have seemed to be plucked straight from the director’s subconscious mind and dreamlife, the ones that have best worked for me are those moments that, while dreamlike, work within the context of the overall narrative: for me, the dead man who is still standing upright in Blue Velvet or the whole of Henry’s collapsing and hallucinating mental landscape in Eraserhead work perfectly within their contexts, while a golden Laura-Palmer-infused egg sent from another dimension to what is apparently a nuclear test-site, which then hatches into a sort of insect-frog hybrid that subsequently crawls into the mouth of a sleeping young girl who, unless I missed something, is never seen or referred to again, really doesn’t, at least for me. If everything is weird, then, relatively speaking, nothing is weird. All of this is, of course, entirely subjective, and it may well be that the season three of Twin Peaks that I watched was significantly worse than the one everybody else was witness to.

Disagree with you there mate!

https://paleymatters.org/alan-moore-remembers-patrick-mcgoohans-the-prisoner-part-2-93aadbfb11e2
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: NoSleep on September 04, 2018, 12:35:48 PM
Quote
This may, of course, be a fault with me rather than with David Lynch, but while some of the most arresting and affecting moments in Lynch’s work have seemed to be plucked straight from the director’s subconscious mind and dreamlife, the ones that have best worked for me are those moments that, while dreamlike, work within the context of the overall narrative: for me, the dead man who is still standing upright in Blue Velvet or the whole of Henry’s collapsing and hallucinating mental landscape in Eraserhead work perfectly within their contexts, while a golden Laura-Palmer-infused egg sent from another dimension to what is apparently a nuclear test-site, which then hatches into a sort of insect-frog hybrid that subsequently crawls into the mouth of a sleeping young girl who, unless I missed something, is never seen or referred to again, really doesn’t, at least for me.

The Laura Palmer "egg" was seen clearly heading in the direction of Washington, not New Mexico. I guess you'd have to read the Final Dossier to confirm that the girl was (or could have been, at least) Sarah Palmer, but it does seem like he's missed the point of having a character with no apparent reference to the rest of a story; that you might ponder where that bit of the jigsaw might fit.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Ja'moke on September 04, 2018, 01:29:14 PM
Also, the whole Dougie storyline, to me at least, was to show the goodness at the heart of Cooper. Dougie was basically Cooper in raw, child-like form, falling in love with the world all over again.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Bhazor on September 04, 2018, 01:48:38 PM
If he's upset about the Dougie storyline not mattering I wonder how he made it through the Sawmill storyline, the drug smuggling storyline, the domestic abuse storyline, the Andy paternity storyline, the James affair storyline, the chinese investor storyline, the Nadine age regression storyline, the Big Ed/Nora storyline or the first 45 minutes of Fire Walk With Me. David Lynch is not the guy you go to for taut 90 minute no fat narratives.

Apart from Straight Story I mean.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shaky on September 04, 2018, 01:48:49 PM
Moore is so off the mark with his summation of the Dougie storyline I'm wondering if he's simply being a bit arch and contrary for the sake of it. I understand if people think that plot went on too long but it's baffling not to see the obvious connection with everything else that was going on in S3. That Dougie was intended to be a stripped down, pure essence of Coop was pretty clear from the start.

Maybe Alan's beard got in his eyes or Glycon did a poo on his TV.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: NoSleep on September 04, 2018, 01:56:41 PM
Also, the whole Dougie storyline, to me at least, was to show the goodness at the heart of Cooper. Dougie was basically Cooper in raw, child-like form, falling in love with the world all over again.

I think Dougie was blessed with extremely good fortune (something that Coop mentions as a trait of his own, too) rather than being good of heart (Coop would have been suspicious of hanging around people like the casino bros). That said he had innocence. And he was constantly being led by signs from the Lodge (when it wasn't somebody else doing the leading).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on September 04, 2018, 04:07:34 PM
He got confused and blamed the show for it, poor sod.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on September 04, 2018, 04:12:18 PM
It sounds like he watched it in a vacuum, in which case I can understand coming to those conclusions. Twin Peaks would be so much worse if you didn't discuss theories and meaning with people.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on September 05, 2018, 12:08:45 AM
What Twed said. The "no black people" thing is a cheap shot, considering the number of black people likely to live in  tiny Washington lumber town, and inaccurate - the original film had at least a couple of black characters.

The absence of Native Americans other than Hawk and maybe that woman who showed Coop the Ghosted house is more awkward, however.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on September 05, 2018, 12:58:32 AM
Here's an excellent video by Wow Lynch Wow! : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKUegHc9Yvo (http://Audrey Horne & The Tale of 2 Coopers)

I'm very compelled by the idea that Mr C has always existed within Cooper, Mr C wasn't 'manufactured' as such in the Red Room, but split from Cooper, BOB just gave him strength.
I've always considered and known that on some level, but somehow it just didn't click (until now).

Also, the idea that Mr C is the controlling presence in the Cooper/Dougie/Mr C combo we see in the Odessa diner totally works IMO, similar to how we see a glimmer of BOB in the Mr C's jail-cell mirror as the controller/guiding-force.
It also just occurred to me, that if we suppose everyone has a good and evil side it stands to reason that Cooper's evil side is an ideal host for BOB, being such a minimal/benign presence within Cooper in the first place surely allowed for a very effective takeover by BOB... no conflicting inner struggle as we saw with MIKE and Phillip Gerard.

Also very interesting to see the super-cut of all the Coopers responding to coffee near the end of the video. I don't think I ever noted the significance of the triple-Coop entity's total ambivalence when the waitress pours him a cup of coffee, which is much closer it is to Mr C's reaction to coffee in the sheriff's department than either Dougie or Cooper-classic.

So, if we assume Mr C is the leader of this amalgamation we can therefore suggest that during the interaction with Mrs Tremond on the porch of Sarah's house, Mr C departs the trio and joins Judy (for some apocalyptic black-lodge fucking no doubt), leaving the Dougie/Cooper duo outside in the dark, supremely confused.

The tone of the ending seems so dark, it's silly not to assume that something bad happened.
By this theory, the absolute worst case scenario happened. Mr C (with some remaining essence of BOB) has finally found his Judy.
Fucking hell.

I've barely slept for the last 2 days so please excuse any incoherence, I think it makes sense.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: chveik on September 05, 2018, 01:25:02 AM
It sounds like he watched it in a vacuum, in which case I can understand coming to those conclusions. Twin Peaks would be so much worse if you didn't discuss theories and meaning with people.

All the discussions I've seen seemed to be quite patronizing (if you don't like it, it's because you're not intelligent enough...). Well, I haven't read the threads in here and I assume that people on CAB don't do this sort of thing (journalists and people on the subreddit used this argument a lot at the time though). I've thought a lot about it since it aired and I agree with pretty much everything Moore says on this article. I thought that the magic from the first 2 series was lost, not because I'm a nostalgic fanboy, just because I didn't really care with the storylines (and the many plotholes) and all the 'avant-garde' stuff left me cold. I wasn't really interested in the mythology in the first place, I just enjoyed the ambience, the investigation and the quirkiness of the characters. There were too many characters in this series and as a result it was quite hard to empathize with them. I don't mind people discussing about theories as such, I just didn't think there was some philosophical depth in The Return (unlike LOST or The Leftovers for instance). When you hear interviews of Lynch he seems to be mostly interested in new age and buddhism, and that's not my cup of tea. There were some beautiful moments in there (I didn't mind most of the Dougie storyline) but on the whole it didn't work for me.
Bit of a useless post I guess, I generally prefer to talk about things I enjoy. But I also think Moore makes some good points about Lynch's recent work ("If everything is weird, then, relatively speaking, nothing is weird"). You need to have some sort of stability in your storyline in order to create "weirdness" around it (like he successfully did in Twin Peaks season 1 with Cooper's investigation). Also the fact that some of the actors aged badly (or died during the shooting) deprived The Return of the joy of the  original series.
But I agree that it was/is more exciting than most of the TV shows nowadays.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Desirable Industrial Unit on September 05, 2018, 02:36:57 AM
So, if we assume Mr C is the leader of this amalgamation we can therefore suggest that during the interaction with Mrs Tremond on the porch of Sarah's house, Mr C departs the trio and joins Judy (for some apocalyptic black-lodge fucking no doubt), leaving the Dougie/Cooper duo outside in the dark, supremely confused.

(I've not watched that video yet)

It's possible to get lost in this stuff.  The split Coopers were aspects of his personality, but the one we end up with at the end is the same we first met all that time ago, just a bit more jaded and rattled.  Mr. C. isn't a presence within him, he's a muscle that's been flexed far more recently than it ever had been before.  He has to be changed in some way by all of it.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on September 05, 2018, 02:41:20 AM
That Dougie was intended to be a stripped down, pure essence of Coop was pretty clear from the start.
Indeed. This was one of the clearest things in The Return. The point of Dougie was to show the pure part of Coop was split from the evil one. That was the point of the bits where Dougie would channel Coop and do awesome FBI stuff to help people, despite his stupor.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on September 05, 2018, 03:29:43 AM
I just didn't think there was some philosophical depth in The Return

The whole thing was a critique of modern America. "Reformed" Ben Horne sits in his office, trying to fix things with money while letting his family disintegrate; people live in squalor, squatting in houses outside Las Vegas, where rich crooks run casinos; Mr C is driven by his wants, whereas Dougie merely experiences the world as it happens... the entire world is shot through with corruption and decay. Lynch and Frost have both spoken about this stuff in interviews, although I think that much of this stuff was more influenced by Frost than Lynch.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Peru on September 05, 2018, 04:09:45 PM
 
Quote
whereby the intrusive supernatural evil in his stories always seems to be firmly rooted in the underclass

Apart from in Twin Peaks where it comes from a middle class family.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: BlodwynPig on September 05, 2018, 04:14:20 PM
All the discussions I've seen seemed to be quite patronizing (if you don't like it, it's because you're not intelligent enough...). Well, I haven't read the threads in here and I assume that people on CAB don't do this sort of thing (journalists and people on the subreddit used this argument a lot at the time though). I've thought a lot about it since it aired and I agree with pretty much everything Moore says on this article. I thought that the magic from the first 2 series was lost, not because I'm a nostalgic fanboy, just because I didn't really care with the storylines (and the many plotholes) and all the 'avant-garde' stuff left me cold. I wasn't really interested in the mythology in the first place, I just enjoyed the ambience, the investigation and the quirkiness of the characters. There were too many characters in this series and as a result it was quite hard to empathize with them. I don't mind people discussing about theories as such, I just didn't think there was some philosophical depth in The Return (unlike LOST or The Leftovers for instance). When you hear interviews of Lynch he seems to be mostly interested in new age and buddhism, and that's not my cup of tea. There were some beautiful moments in there (I didn't mind most of the Dougie storyline) but on the whole it didn't work for me.
Bit of a useless post I guess, I generally prefer to talk about things I enjoy. But I also think Moore makes some good points about Lynch's recent work ("If everything is weird, then, relatively speaking, nothing is weird"). You need to have some sort of stability in your storyline in order to create "weirdness" around it (like he successfully did in Twin Peaks season 1 with Cooper's investigation). Also the fact that some of the actors aged badly (or died during the shooting) deprived The Return of the joy of the  original series.
But I agree that it was/is more exciting than most of the TV shows nowadays.

I feel you. I've not rewatched it and only watched the first part of the return on crappy phone, so didn't get the "Full" Experience. Reading these threads turned me off rewatching as I believe watching Lynch's output for the first time requires some sort of detachment from blabber initially.

I'm intending to rewatch over autumn if I can and seeing how I feel about it.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: QDRPHNC on September 05, 2018, 04:19:55 PM
Alan Moore is one of those people whose opinion I'll always give credence to, as I consider him a supremely intelligent and masterful creative mind, up there with Lynch himself. I don't agree with everything he said, but given the source, it's food for thought.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on September 05, 2018, 04:30:41 PM
I think he's too far up his own arse to see the wood for the trees myself.

Why does he talk about everything being weird? Lynch's work has never been self-consciously weird; that's what all his imitators get wrong. Watching through that lens already undermines any opinion he has on it.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: drdad on September 05, 2018, 07:37:58 PM
David Lynch is not the guy you go to for taut 90 minute no fat narratives.

Apart from Straight Story I mean.

The Straight story is chock-full of odd little narrative digressions, though.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: QDRPHNC on September 05, 2018, 08:26:37 PM
I think he's too far up his own arse to see the wood for the trees myself.

To be fair,.I'm sure you could swing a cat and find someone of the same opinion of Lynch. I think genuinely creative people have to be up their own arses to some extent.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on September 06, 2018, 04:33:40 AM
Apart from in Twin Peaks where it comes from a middle class family.

And the earthly evil emanates from the resolutely upper-class Hornes and Martells.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: sevendaughters on September 06, 2018, 08:15:16 AM
more to the point, who is vulnerable to the associated evils coming out idealised conceptions of Americanness throughout Lynch? Poor people, young people, old people for sure. Mostly women. That the towns can appear 'twinned with Midsomer' is the point - this is the America the GOP has in their head, and it is rotten.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: NoSleep on September 06, 2018, 08:38:47 AM
And the earthly evil emanates from the resolutely upper-class Hornes and Martells.

And according to the Secret History, the Hornes and the Milfords (the mayor and his bro) have been connected to the evil in the woods for a generation (or two) at least.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on September 06, 2018, 12:27:48 PM
And according to the Secret History, the Hornes and the Milfords (the mayor and his bro) have been connected to the evil in the woods for a generation (or two) at least.

Though those books are Frost's work without much more than a nod from Lynch, to be fair.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shaky on September 08, 2018, 12:02:23 AM
Though those books are Frost's work without much more than a nod from Lynch, to be fair.

True, but I'm happy to take them as canon anyway. FWWM didn't involve Frost and we've all seen how important that's become to the mythos.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on September 08, 2018, 11:09:06 AM
Also worth noting that according to Room to Dream, Lynch spent a lot of timd on the script on his own when Frost went off to write the books, which makes them seem much more like diverging/separate worlds.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on September 08, 2018, 11:23:15 AM
I feel you. I've not rewatched it and only watched the first part of the return on crappy phone, so didn't get the "Full" Experience. Reading these threads turned me off rewatching as I believe watching Lynch's output for the first time requires some sort of detachment from blabber initially.

I'm intending to rewatch over autumn if I can and seeing how I feel about it.

I'm sure I've seen you complement Lynch's work in other threads and assume you were looking forward to The Return... So what compelled you to watch part of it on a fucking phone?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: BlodwynPig on September 08, 2018, 01:15:40 PM
I'm sure I've seen you complement Lynch's work in other threads and assume you were looking forward to The Return... So what compelled you to watch part of it on a fucking phone?

I'm his biggest fan*. I didn't have a computer/laptop for the first few months in Canada but didn't want to wait.

*I love his work
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on September 08, 2018, 05:52:11 PM
That's a shame, you should have waited.
I recently rewatched the Blu-ray on a 50" screen with surround sound and it was quite a lot more immersive than seeing it originally on a 28" with built-in speakers.
I can't imagine feeling any sense of immersion in anything seen on my phone.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: BlodwynPig on September 08, 2018, 10:29:21 PM
That's a shame, you should have waited.
I recently rewatched the Blu-ray on a 50" screen with surround sound and it was quite a lot more immersive than seeing it originally on a 28" with built-in speakers.
I can't imagine feeling any sense of immersion in anything seen on my phone.


It was mainly murky. I think i saw ep 7 onwards on laptop
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Bhazor on November 12, 2018, 10:47:02 PM
I done a thing. I done one.

(https://i.imgur.com/EV5YyeL.jpg)

Gotta Light?

Timelapse at https://youtu.be/biSU1E8wAyU
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Ja'moke on November 12, 2018, 11:04:59 PM
Great work, Bhazor!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: PlanktonSideburns on November 12, 2018, 11:09:19 PM
Great stuff
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Bhazor on November 12, 2018, 11:18:06 PM
Thanks.

Just ignore the hands. And try not to notice when I went mental on the checks. Or how I seem to have turned his beard into a kicky little scarf.  But eh. I was trying like 5 different things for the first time at the same time (doing white on black, metallic sheen, multi direction lighting, old man face, representing materials through different brush strokes) so the fact I can bear to even look at it means it went far better than I had hoped.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Shaky on November 12, 2018, 11:23:14 PM
Yeah, that's really good. Particularly love how expressive the face is. Congrats!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: colacentral on November 13, 2018, 12:29:13 AM
Weird, I considered bumping this thread yesterday too as I read that "Catching the Big Fish" book by Lynch and it's full of passages which I think are relevant to TP 3.

There are two quite important chapters I can remember off the top of my head: the first is called something like "Tower of Gold" and is about achieving bliss through meditating (as most of the book is) but it stresses the metaphor of it being like finding gold within. Two notable "gold moments" in the series are Laura's head in the gold orb, and the gold cloud that leaves the body of the child killed by Richard Horne.

I think that's also the chapter that talks about negativity as darkness, and that another way of describing darkness is absence. I think he talks about filling that darkness or absence with gold. Does that not sound like the giant sending a gold orb to the place where a black void has just opened up and spewed some monsters out?

As far as the boy with the gold cloud goes: he dies from a series of events initiated by Red: he insults Richard Horne, who in his anger takes drugs and drives too fast, killing the boy. I've said on previous pages that I think the strongest theme of the season is the idea that negativity begets further negativity and that sequence is a pretty obvious indicator, as the positive influence, the gold, is snuffed out. Interestingly, Red's only other scene is probably the other most obvious indicator of the theme: the one with the vomiting zombie child, which is kicked off by a bullet through the diner window which Red was stood in front of just a few seconds before.

The second interesting chapter in the "Big Fish" book is the Inland Empire one, which begins with the epigraph: "We are like the spider, we weave our life and then move along in it. We are like the dreamer who dreams and then lives in the dream. This is true for the entire universe." That chapter goes on to talk about the creation of Inland Empire, naturally, but also it particularly emphasises Lynch's belief in the Unified Field and everything being connected. He uses that to explain why the one character in IE has the red bulb in his mouth.

I think the above is further evidence to suggest that the idea of "the dreamer" is not that a particular character is dreaming the events, but that it refers to everything being connected: the dream world of TP is the world of the lodges, a place which both exists in the subconscious of the characters (as Cooper and Laura visit there in their sleep), and as a real place to be visited via portals in the waking world. It suggests that everything is both in the minds of everyone and real at the same time, that it's all one thing.

That's an idea which is also explored by The Sopranos as Tony becomes Kevin Finnerty in his coma and has an encounter with some buddhist monks, the idea being that when he wakes up he briefly has some awareness that his actions hurt people ("everything is everything" is how one character puts it).

I still can't quite wrap my head around episode 18 though. I feel that the idea of 17, in light of the above, could be a representation of achieving enlightenment: the green gardening glove destroys Bob = the garden is cleaned of bugs (the black lodge creatures, including the woodsmen, are bug-like in their representation; bugs in Lynch stuff is usually a metaphor for repressed darkness, most obviously in Blue Velvet). The "garden" being cleaned is a metaphor for the soul or the psyche being cleaned. That's when it's realised that everything is a dream (everything is connected and reality is what you make it: positive or negative), and reality shatters.

But if that's so, then why is Cooper seemingly punished? I'm unconvinced by any interpretation of 18 as a good ending or as any kind of triumph; to me it's as bleak as can be. I've always seen Carrie's world as Judy's world. When Cooper asks what year it is, could it be the future? If the 2017 TP is much bleaker than 1990, and a much worse place for kids, has Cooper travelled to an even bleaker time? Are there any children in episode 18, and is it significant if there aren't, considering how children are used in season 3?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Thursday on November 13, 2018, 11:32:18 PM
I'm not quite convinced by the bleak or happy interpretations of episode 18. I mean it's all quite scary, but you've ended with Coop and Carrie together/Carrie coming to a realisation about who she is... It's a horrific realisation, but it's surely necessary as well.

Diane's off somewhere no idea what's going on with that, so who knows, but she left with purpose so it feels like she has a plan.

But I've seen the suggestion they're doomed/trapped there forever, but surely there's still hope that they might be able to get a handle on their situation and work out what to do next.

Though Lynch and Frost say they'd be very happy with that as an end point, which makes me think I might not quite be reading things right.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Sgt. Duckie on November 15, 2018, 01:23:38 PM

Thought this would be an appropriate thread to pop this in. A new short from David Lynch: 'Ant Head'.

https://youtu.be/sDAJIWvTKw8 (https://youtu.be/sDAJIWvTKw8)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Thursday on November 17, 2018, 08:22:48 PM
I've started on a rewatch from the entirety of Twin Peaks start, thought it might be a bit difficult or weird going back to S1 now, but it's like a comfy pair of slippers, it's also interesting to look out for little things that I would never noticed pre The Return.

Anyone done a comprehensive rewatch yet?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on November 22, 2018, 06:05:28 PM
I re-watched the lot earlier this year, from January to March.
Considering I was late to the party with the original series and The Return (first saw S1 & S2 in Jun-Aug 2017, FWWM & S3 Sep-Oct), I pretty much watched all of it twice, back-to-back.
And I'm considering another re-watch next year.
Might just skip the first 2 seasons, my undying love for the show really belongs to The Return.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: grassbath on November 22, 2018, 07:16:50 PM
I'm off work until the middle of next week and the main event of my time off is hibernating against the grey November chill and rewatching all of The Return. I've seen the original two series and FWWM several times, but watching The Return as it came out was a very twisting, turning, discombobulating experience so by binging it I hope to join up all the dots.

Six episodes in and I've certainly not been disappointed. A piece of television so defiant and uncompromising it defies the medium of television somehow. It's a shattered mirror, where moods are constantly juxtaposed - Kafkaesque farce, crime drama, supernatural horror, self-parody, live music show - continuing a story even as it abnegates it. There's almost a sheer gall in moments like Bobby breaking down in tears as he sees Laura's photo and that music sweeping in. It feels strikingly 'now,' no mean feat in today's times, when most art feels reflexive and identity-less.

How the fuck, though, is the DVD box set only rated 15? 'Very strong language, strong bloody violence, gore, sex, drug misuse,' it says on the box, to which I would add - at the very least - 'rape and sexual assault, children being run over, Grace Zabriskie screaming, and general extreme bad vibes.'
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: TwinPeaks on November 22, 2018, 07:23:06 PM
How the fuck, though, is the DVD box set only rated 15?

Shit, I never even realised that. The original series blu ray is a 15 too, and that includes Fire Walk with Me. The X-Files box set is an 18 but somehow Twin Peaks isn't.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: amputeeporn on November 22, 2018, 09:19:43 PM
Nothing much to add here, but every time I listen to Shadow by Chromatics it sends shivers up my spine and I feel such a swell of sadness for Dale Cooper. Helps that it's one of the best songs of the last few years, but married with one of the most stunning films/shows just elevates it further.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: The Culture Bunker on November 22, 2018, 09:29:59 PM
Nothing much to add here, but every time I listen to Shadow by Chromatics it sends shivers up my spine and I feel such a swell of sadness for Dale Cooper. Helps that it's one of the best songs of the last few years, but married with one of the most stunning films/shows just elevates it further.
Additionally, it made me go out and buy a couple of Chromatics albums (plus a Johnny Jewel one)... so, yeah, thanks for that, David Lynch.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on November 23, 2018, 05:57:37 PM
As a latecomer, it still seems weird to me that it all aired during Spring/Summer. It's such an Autumnal/Wintery show!
IMO it needs to be watched it in a cold, dark room - raining outside? even better - while wearing a fleece or something lovely, but on occasion lets in a bit of chill, with a blanket over your lower half and a tipple of whiskey or sherry to last the first 20-30 minutes or so, to get the full, official TP:TR experience! (my experience)
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: QDRPHNC on November 23, 2018, 08:19:44 PM
I just occurred to me that I have bought more editions of Twin Peaks than anything else. Starting with the complete series on VHS, FWWM on VHS, then the region free DVD of FWWM, eventually the Region 1 FWWM, some weird Japanese release of the TV show on DVD, the proper region 1 DVD release of season one. Then, after fucking ages, the region 2 DVD of season 2. Then the DVD Gold Box "definitive" collection. And finally the blu-rays of the original run and The Return. And my ex-wife kept those last two so I'll probably need to buy them again, cow. She doesn't even have a blu-ray player.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Thursday on November 24, 2018, 12:45:01 PM
Don't know if this will be everywhere, but The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer was in my local HMV on a " 2 books for £5 or £4 each offer"
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: mjwilson on November 24, 2018, 06:45:26 PM
I just occurred to me that I have bought more editions of Twin Peaks than anything else. Starting with the complete series on VHS, FWWM on VHS, then the region free DVD of FWWM, eventually the Region 1 FWWM, some weird Japanese release of the TV show on DVD, the proper region 1 DVD release of season one. Then, after fucking ages, the region 2 DVD of season 2. Then the DVD Gold Box "definitive" collection. And finally the blu-rays of the original run and The Return. And my ex-wife kept those last two so I'll probably need to buy them again, cow. She doesn't even have a blu-ray player.

I contemplated buying a laserdisc player just so I could get Twin Peaks with good picture quality. Fortunately they invented DVD instead.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: gout_pony on November 24, 2018, 10:34:44 PM
Don't know if this will be everywhere, but The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer was in my local HMV on a " 2 books for £5 or £4 each offer"

I found The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer a lot more moving and generally engaging that I had expected. Not essential, but Jennifer Lynch did a pretty good job, all told!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Bhazor on November 24, 2018, 10:55:54 PM
The audiobook version is great. How Sheryl Lee never became a major star is beyond me.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Thursday on November 24, 2018, 11:07:36 PM
Yeah I got a cheeky torrent of the audiobook, so felt like I should actually buy the book on seeing it today. Fucking tough to listen to though. I was listening to some of it at work instead of podcasts which was an odd experience.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Bhazor on November 24, 2018, 11:10:49 PM
Not the easiest listen to be sure.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Thursday on November 25, 2018, 09:34:15 PM
Finished my rewatch of season 2

CRUCIAL DETAIL I NOTICED

(https://www.idlethumbs.net/assets/img/episodes/711__header.jpg)

When Coop enters the lodge he's wearing this coat.

But he's not wearing it when he's in the lodge but we never see him take it off.

Cooper's coat is stuck in the lodge!
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on November 25, 2018, 11:41:46 PM
Thought this would be an appropriate thread to pop this in. A new short from David Lynch: 'Ant Head'.

https://youtu.be/sDAJIWvTKw8 (https://youtu.be/sDAJIWvTKw8)

I just watched that tonight, he's taking the piss a bit with the initial footage of ants crawling around that weird face for what seemed like ages, but once he starts narrating a tale it becomes really quite unsettling, especially if you presume that the woodcutters are the same creatures from The Return.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on November 26, 2018, 02:35:37 AM
I don't know how to feel when I see stuff like this:
Dream 7 (2010) (https://youtu.be/rkbaOBZu6zc)

On the one hand, I enjoy spotting hints of The Return in Lynch's earlier work, on the other hand it leads me to think that a lot of my favourite imagery from The Return was pasted-in and reappropriated, not rooted in the world of Twin Peaks.
The hand and all the tulpa red room imagery just seem a bit less special now...
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on November 26, 2018, 05:14:09 AM
You could also look at it as Lynch using stuff embedded deep into his psyche in his works, instead of rattling off a load of random old bollocks as needed.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: NoSleep on November 26, 2018, 08:04:42 AM
On the one hand, I enjoy spotting hints of The Return in Lynch's earlier work, on the other hand it leads me to think that a lot of my favourite imagery from The Return was pasted-in and reappropriated, not rooted in the world of Twin Peaks.

The only given is that Twin Peaks is rooted in the world of David Lynch.
I'm sure there is an improvisatory aspect to his work that means there's no precise vision that's being expressed; unexpected stuff comes out along the way. Plots don't necessarily make sense as they evolve, but they harmonise. I think Lynch has recognised that cinema is by nature an odd thing, removed from reality, and this has liberated him from the usual conventions of the artform.


Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Phil_A on November 26, 2018, 08:21:59 AM
I don't know how to feel when I see stuff like this:
Dream 7 (2010) (https://youtu.be/rkbaOBZu6zc)

On the one hand, I enjoy spotting hints of The Return in Lynch's earlier work, on the other hand it leads me to think that a lot of my favourite imagery from The Return was pasted-in and reappropriated, not rooted in the world of Twin Peaks.
The hand and all the tulpa red room imagery just seem a bit less special now...

Because of a fifty second clip??

I hate to tell you this but Lynch has used hanging curtains and zig-zag patterned floors in almost everything he's ever done, the hack fraaaaaaud

Seriously though, he recycles his own stuff all the time, but I don't think it's laziness as such, more in line with what Zappa called "conceptual continuity". E.g, the idea that everything he's ever done over his entire career is part of a single developing piece of work.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: NoSleep on November 26, 2018, 08:29:12 AM

I hate to tell you this but Lynch has used hanging curtains and zig-zag patterned floors in almost everything he's ever done, the hack fraaaaaaud


Hanging curtains must the be the quickest, most simple way of transforming any background (aside from those paper rolls that filmmakers/photographers use, but they are designed to be neutral not suggestive).
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on November 26, 2018, 12:46:32 PM
Because of a fifty second clip??

I hate to tell you this but Lynch has used hanging curtains and zig-zag patterned floors in almost everything he's ever done, the hack fraaaaaaud

I'm very familiar with the countless recurring motifs throughout his work, I should have made that clear so as not to appear extremely dense.
Part of it is that I assumed a lot of the the new & unfamiliar elements in The Return were a bit more off-the-cuff and fresher than they perhaps were, a clip like that dispels that notion a little bit.
There's also the fact that every single element of it was re-used in The Return in quite an exact way.
Imagine if the clip from 2010 was a ball emerging from a sparkling essence, going through a massive horn contraption and reappearing on a screen. Wouldn't it affect the way you saw the sequence in The Return?
On a similar note, the Rabbits sequences in Inland Empire seemed a lot less weird and interesting when I realised they were directly lifted from a 2002 web-series.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on November 26, 2018, 01:02:42 PM
EDIT: Wrote this before you replied, hedgehog.

The Return is basically composed of Lynch's recurring themes, thoughts and preoccupations. Like  the stuff about doubles, which IIRC only just started  to emerge with the original Twin Peaks but was central to Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire. Those films - along with Lost Highway - also featured the idea of a character who becomes someone else, which of course turns up at the end of The Return, with Coop and Diane travelling to ???

There are even echoes in things like the theatre from The Giant's home being the same as the one in Mulholland Drive.

I suspect Lynch saw this as his last foray into cinema, and basically used it as a way to bring together everything that had been bubbling away in his head for the past couple of decades, as well as pay tribute (if that's the right phrase, which it isn't) to his earlier works.

To me, at least, it doesn't devalue The Return. If anything it adds to its importance as possibly the final word on Lynch's filmic career.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: drdad on November 26, 2018, 06:39:16 PM
Lynch's script for Ronnie Rocket (here: http://www.lynchnet.com/rrscript.html ) also shares some themes with The Return. The character of Ronnie reminds me of Dougie/Coop.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Thursday on November 26, 2018, 08:45:15 PM
There's no way to get the deleted scenes from Fire Walk With Me outside of the entire mystery set is there? My disc is fucked because of that case not really holding the discs in place well.

Can probably get the whole set for not much more than the film anyway now, but just making sure.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: grassbath on November 27, 2018, 12:47:34 AM
Noticing quite a few Kubrick overtones on my rewatch. The Episode 8/2001 stargate sequence stuff probably should have been obvious to me the first time, but I was also struck by the feel in the Fireman's gaff of the ballroom in the Overlook Hotel. Just as the photo at the end of the Shining complicates the time of the film with a kind of hauntology, I somehow get the sense that before the atom bomb was detonated in New Mexico, Twin Peaks - the universe, the creation, not the fictional town - did not exist. The Fireman and Senorita Dido see it unfold as a construct in a world and setting very reminiscent of early cinema.

Outside of that episode, the very upsetting scene of Richard Horne breaking into his grandmother's, with the placid classical music juxtaposed with physical violence, plus the camerawork, really reminded me of A Clockwork Orange.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: grassbath on November 27, 2018, 12:56:40 AM
On a similar note, the Rabbits sequences in Inland Empire seemed a lot less weird and interesting when I realised they were directly lifted from a 2002 web-series.

I really like that they're lifted from the web series. It fits with the intentionally digital vibe of Inland Empire - a world that feels grimier and lower quality somehow for the more open-ended and sprawling it is.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: grassbath on November 29, 2018, 10:12:27 PM
Sorry for the triple post, but I finished my rewatch yesterday and wanted to write out some thoughts and that. It's an immensely complex piece of work, let alone in the context of the whole Twin Peaks universe. I had previously not really thought of Lynch as a philosophical filmmaker per se - more just a surrealist working in mysteries and puzzles, some of which are solvable, some unsolvable. But the lapsarian world of the Return feels like an enormous meta-statement commenting on human nature, morality, memory, history, spirituality, technology, entertainment. Previous attempts to put him in the political-theoretical frame ('Eraserhead is about the masculine fear of childbirth,' 'Mulholland Drive is a critique of the modern film industry' etc), while not illegitimate, have always felt a bit trivial. Whereas I can detect a message or 'agenda' of sorts here, in a way that I can't ascribe to anything else he's done.

One thing that really struck/moved me the more episodes I watched was the camera whirling over the floor of the Lodge in the opening credits sequence. Something about that paired with the music - being whisked away from familiarity, giddy, disorienting, romantic.

My personal favourite moment in the entire series though, which caught me off guard, was the girl tearing up in the Roadhouse when James is playing 'Just You.' Catching herself, laughing with her friends, unable to believe she's crying at this cheesy song, but then still not being able to hold it in. In a series which seems to resolutely declare that the kids are not alright, here Lynch/Frost seem to suggest the opposite - there is still love and feeling and memory wherever there are people and music. Generally I got a lot more out of these little soap opera moments with unnamed young characters just watching the band, gossiping and shooting the shit at the end of an episode.

Re: the much debated ending, I think it's intended to be totally ambiguous as to whether Coop defeated Judy or not. Either side could argue with tons of evidence and not come to a conclusion. The only thing that errs me on the negative side is the overwhelmingly gloomy feel of the final episode. 'The World Spins' at the end of episode 17 had an unbearable sadness to it, like a tear shed in anticipation of the final act. 'Dark Space Low' as a title for the end credits music also doesn't seem to bode well.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: TwinPeaks on November 29, 2018, 10:46:49 PM
unable to believe she's crying at this cheesy song, but then still not being able to hold it in.

These moments really sum the series up for me. The moments of empathy, earnestness and compassion are so heightened and almost become ridiculous, but they're beautiful at the same time. When Sarah Palmer cries in the original pilot I wanted to cry too, even though it's the silliest melodramatic soap opera crying. The 'it is happening again' scene in the roadhouse, it's just devestating and none of the characters or even the viewer can understand what's going on. Even the absolutely bizarre crowd reaction shots when Carl Rodd is comforting the mother only add to the sense of sadness and confusion.

I always wonder what Lynch is thinking when he does that kind of stuff. Does he know it straddles a line of hilarity and heartbreak? He must do, but i can only imagine him being earnest about it.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Thursday on November 29, 2018, 10:53:36 PM
I've been listening to Secret History Audiobook at work, which I'm enjoying a lot more 2nd time through. (I think I first time, I'd misunderstood what I was getting and I was expecting it to be more like The Final Dossier)

Had to suddenly pause and gather myself slightly at the mention of Pete shielding Audrey from the blast, so I didn't suddenly start tearing up at work.

Have to say, it really feels like a lot of the book feels very much like a preface to episode 8, which is interesting since it's what people think of the most Lynchian, and yet Frost is essentially hinting at all the same themes throughout the book.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on January 04, 2019, 05:32:29 PM
Twin Peaks is just spooky Due South
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: sevendaughters on January 04, 2019, 06:52:06 PM
Twin Peaks is just spooky Due South

err Due South has actual ghosts
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: PlanktonSideburns on January 04, 2019, 07:06:19 PM
X files is just spooky nypd blue

Avengers is just more flexible thunderbirds

Kingdom hospital - creepy ER

I've not really thought this through
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: BlodwynPig on January 04, 2019, 09:31:45 PM
Ghostwatch - sinister Rentaghost
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on January 04, 2019, 09:41:07 PM
Would Twin Peaks have been better if Dale had a clever wolf?
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Mister Six on January 06, 2019, 06:36:06 PM
Due South is about a Canadian cop going to the US. Twin Peaks has American cops going to Canada.

LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE, YOU DUNCE.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on January 06, 2019, 06:46:20 PM
THAT'S WHAT'S SO SPOOKY ABOUT IT
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: BlodwynPig on April 07, 2019, 07:37:48 PM
Tammy has a new album out featuring a song called "Blue Rose" (featured on last year's EP) - she's touring UK this week if you are in Glasgow, Manchester or London, might be worth checking her out

https://chrystabell.com (https://chrystabell.com)

A great album of woozy alternative pop and ethereal ballads.
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: Twed on April 07, 2019, 07:55:33 PM
I'm into it Blodywn
Title: Re: Twin Peaks Season 3...
Post by: hedgehog90 on April 08, 2019, 01:26:23 AM
Cheers Blods, will check it out.