Cook'd and Bomb'd

Forums => Deeper Into Movies => Topic started by: Malcy on October 06, 2018, 01:00:20 AM

Title: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Malcy on October 06, 2018, 01:00:20 AM
Is anyone excited about this new one? Everything after the first film is being disregarded. I can understand everything from 4 onwards but really! 2 is a great sequel. Follows on minutes from the original and is as good.

Obviously 3 is a non Shatner mask sequel but that doesn't matter because we all know that's the best one. (Cue Silver Shamrock song being stuck In your head for the next few weeks). It just seems unnecessary to wipe the second film.

When is Hollywood going to stop overwriting films just because they've had a different idea years later? Fucking sick of it.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Mister Six on October 06, 2018, 01:18:51 AM
They already overwrote everything except 1 and 2 with Halloween H20. And overwrote everything again with Rob Zombie's reboot.

Why does it matter? None of it is real. Just pretend this film doesn't exist if it bothers you.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: kidsick5000 on October 06, 2018, 02:01:18 AM
This new one is brilliant.
Given it's the xth installment and nth reboot AND who's behind it, it should not work.
But it is great and incredibly beautiful.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Brundle-Fly on October 06, 2018, 03:20:29 AM
A Hollywood horror franchise wouldn't be a Hollywood horror franchise without its very last breathe being choked from its corpse: revived, killed, resuscitated, ridiculed, rebooted, etc etc...

1944

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/fOZST7.jpg)
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: thecuriousorange on October 06, 2018, 09:12:53 AM
Scream is the best Halloween sequel.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: NoSleep on October 06, 2018, 11:12:30 AM
And Black Christmas is the best Halloween movie.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: thecuriousorange on October 06, 2018, 11:33:46 AM
But does it feature the Halloween music and does the script include a gentle ribbing of the tropes Halloween helped establish?
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: NoSleep on October 06, 2018, 11:40:59 AM
But does it feature the Halloween music... ?

No.

Quote
...and does the script include a gentle ribbing of the tropes Halloween helped establish?

Impossible as they had yet to become tropes.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: DukeDeMondo on October 06, 2018, 01:51:26 PM
I'm not sure that curiousorange was talking about Black Christmas there.

Halloween 2 is pretty decent but it's nowhere near as good as the original. Nothing like as atmospheric and nowhere near as tense and menacing. It's possible that Rob Zombie's Halloween 2 is better, even.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: NoSleep on October 06, 2018, 01:53:02 PM
I don't think curiousorange was talking about Black Christmas.

It looked to me like (s)he was responding to my post.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: thecuriousorange on October 06, 2018, 11:04:14 PM
When I was at school someone told me that the white mask worn by the killer in Halloween is a mask of the guy from Star Trek. I was slightly aware of Star Trek and thought they meant:

(https://pmctvline2.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/star-trek-discovery-brent-spiner-data.jpg?w=620)
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Kane Jones on October 07, 2018, 11:13:41 AM
It's possible that Rob Zombie's Halloween 2 is better, even.

That's one of the most grotesque, unpleasant films I've ever sat through. Honestly, I thought it was fucking horrible. It's rare that horror films make me feel actually sick, but the violence in that movie was so horrific at times I thought I was going to puke. Yeesh, ghastly fillum.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Mango Chimes on October 07, 2018, 11:32:36 AM
Is anyone excited about this new one? Everything after the first film is being disregarded. I can understand everything from 4 onwards but really! 2 is a great sequel. Follows on minutes from the original and is as good.

Never understood the love for 2. I think I saw it after H20, with Williamson et al saying it's the only good one, blah blah. But it's shit. I think it's worse than some of the weird later sequels because it's just drab. Halloween's an incredibly stylish ghost story. Halloween 2 is drab both in its story and in execution. The Shape is no longer the bogeyman, but just Laurie's vindictive and unrealistically strong brother. It's all set at night, so there's none of the lovely daytime ordinary eerieness of the first film. And the deaths are both more grim and more stupid, with cars and buildings EXPLODING. It's a hacky B-movie sequel to an unexpected art movie.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 08, 2018, 11:29:00 AM
I agree about H2. The deaths are so much more gruesome, purely because that's what other movies were doing and Carpenter felt he had to keep pace. One character dies from a concussion, Laurie's crush is dressed as Michael Myers while trick-or-treating apparently on his own, Michael writes a clue to his motivation on a blackboard for no reason and the reveal that he's Laurie's brother makes it all incredibly dull and mundane. He isn't a mysterious inhuman force, he's just a nutter trying to kill his family for no reason. Most of the sequels are crap, with only H20 working because it tries to emulate the style of the original. The problem is that it's saddled with the dull backstory and gory conventions the series had accumulated thanks to H2. The resulting film, shorn of credits, is a full 75 minutes long.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: bgmnts on October 08, 2018, 11:43:21 AM
I agree about H2. The deaths are so much more gruesome, purely because that's what other movies were doing and Carpenter felt he had to keep pace. One character dies from a concussion, Laurie's crush is dressed as Michael Myers while trick-or-treating apparently on his own, Michael writes a clue to his motivation on a blackboard for no reason and the reveal that he's Laurie's brother makes it all incredibly dull and mundane. He isn't a mysterious inhuman force, he's just a nutter trying to kill his family for no reason. Most of the sequels are crap, with only H20 working because it tries to emulate the style of the original. The problem is that it's saddled with the dull backstory and gory conventions the series had accumulated thanks to H2. The resulting film, shorn of credits, is a full 75 minutes long.

He was always just some nutter who tried to kill his family.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 08, 2018, 12:31:09 PM
He was always just some nutter who tried to kill his family.

Not in the first film he isn't.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: bgmnts on October 08, 2018, 12:42:41 PM
Not in the first film he isn't.

Didn't he stab his sister to death with a knife? Am I thinking of 2?
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 08, 2018, 01:37:43 PM
Didn't he stab his sister to death with a knife? Am I thinking of 2?

But everyone else he stalks and attacks/kills is not a member of his family, nor is there any mention of him seeking to kill his family.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: bgmnts on October 14, 2018, 11:38:56 AM
But everyone else he stalks and attacks/kills is not a member of his family, nor is there any mention of him seeking to kill his family.

Fair enough. None of it makes any sense to me its all just a bit of bollocks.

It's all explained nicely here, it makes perfect sense.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpc7eYkVmXk
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: BritishHobo on October 14, 2018, 03:06:44 PM
Been working through this franchise for the first time because of this new film. The big surprise for me is I thought this was meant to be special because it's the first time Curtis has reprised her role, that that was lending this credibility. I'd no idea she'd done it twice in the late nineties/early noughties. How many other franchises have done that, had the main star return as a retcon, only to do a later re-retcon again with the same star?
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Famous Mortimer on October 15, 2018, 02:20:51 PM
I guess I'll watch it, but Halloween's been really really rubbish for way longer than it was good (given it was only good for one movie, you Halloween 3 revisionists can suck it). H20 is fun, ish, that one with Busta Rhymes might be the worst film I've ever seen, and, er, etc. Oh wait, the one with Paul Rudd is the worst film I've ever seen. The Mark of Thorn!

I thought with the swathe of remakes of horror movies around 2008-2012 that we were free of this. But sadly not.

PS Black Christmas is fucking brilliant.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Dex Sawash on October 16, 2018, 10:40:11 PM
What if they did it where Jason was a female?

edit- check out this dunce, obviously I meant Freddy
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 20, 2018, 12:29:22 AM
Just seen it, it's fucking great.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: saltysnacks on October 20, 2018, 01:39:17 AM
Impossible as they had yet to become tropes.

Your statement doesn't contradict his, he said the 'tropes Halloween helped establish', which doesn't imply they were tropes at the point of the film's inception. Quite the opposite, in fact.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Shaky on October 20, 2018, 05:59:08 AM
Spotted this on ebay while doing a search for Michael masks and I can't stop laughing:

(https://i.imgur.com/17x1SfX.jpg?1)

Nicholas Cage, surely?
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bazooka on October 20, 2018, 09:39:08 AM
Spotted this on ebay while doing a search for Michael masks and I can't stop laughing:

(https://i.imgur.com/17x1SfX.jpg?1)

Nicholas Cage, surely?

Myers has been working that neck hard in the gym, ignoring shoulders.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Mango Chimes on October 20, 2018, 01:50:16 PM
Also, appears to have been photographed sat down at the hairdressers.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Replies From View on October 20, 2018, 02:19:22 PM
ignoring shoulders.

So it’s actually titbo?
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: New Jack on October 20, 2018, 07:17:10 PM
Avclub says the new one is shit but the main fella off We Hate Movies reckons it's boss as fuck

... I'm a Millenial, aren't I
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 20, 2018, 07:35:00 PM
AV Club are wrong. Theirs is the only bad review I've seen.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: New Jack on October 20, 2018, 08:25:13 PM
Phew. Andrew Jupin justified, this is good

AvClub is a load of fucking advert-packed shit that's insufferable. Who knew?
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: cliggg on October 20, 2018, 09:56:00 PM
There were 2 very very rude people (isn't there always?) talking nonstop in the screening I went to, they eventually left as they got offended at being told to shut up so many times. If everyone there behaved like a decent human being I don't think it would change my opinion of this as boring. It would have been entertaining if he wore that Nicolas Cage mask.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 21, 2018, 12:11:57 AM
This is not a good film. It's at least worse than Halloween 2, maybe worse than every other sequel.

It's flat and tensionless, often not even feeling like a horror film. Just having a maniac killing dozens of people doesn't make it a horror film, otherwise Silence of the Lambs and No Country for Old Men would be horror films, and I actually think those were scarier, and certainly more tense.

It did itself no favours by opening with the podcasters and spending so much time with them. The use of podcasting seems so unnecessarily zeitgesty in the way that webcams and reality tv were used in Resurrection. And the bloke reminded me of Elaine's boyfriend from London in Seinfeld, same voice, clothes, haircut. Cliche American idea of an English person. Awful character.

And that was the biggest issue - too many characters, and almost all bad. It was like the pilot of a HBO series with how many characters there were in this, and several of them disappeared after a bit. Where did the boyfriend go? Or the black cop in the cowboy hat? Why did a new pair of comic relief cops have to appear doing a Pulp Fiction routine about Korean sandwiches right at the end of the film?

The abundance of characters and even extras is the biggest reason there's no tension. Look at how in the original the streets are deserted; you never see any of the girls' families; that one woman behind the curtain turns off the light and leaves Laurie on the street, and you don't get a sense of anyone being in any of the other houses. That's eerie. It's a dead town.

Compare that to this film where there's a Halloween fiesta going on in the streets and there's a big dance and multiple people around at all times. At one point the grand daughter escapes after Michael kills the fat lad and gets comforted by a family of people and several police officers. There's nothing spooky or dangerous about that.

The scariest moments in the original are when nothing happens: Michael stood in the distance, seen through a foggy window, either staring or carrying the dead body around the side of the house with no scary music to tell you how to feel; or the one girl walking outside to do the laundry and getting stuck in the window. This film had none of that.

And the bit towards the end with the zooms into a load of mannequin heads was laughable, like a parody. This is not a good film. It Follows, which got panned by this forum, is much closer in spirit to what a Halloween film should be.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 21, 2018, 02:43:36 AM
I think you missed half the film.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 21, 2018, 10:59:27 AM
What half was that? The dull family drama intercut with dull podcasting subplot half? You can't be suggesting that the annoying characters having breakfast and talking bollocks in school constitutes suspense? When the same things happened in the original, Michael Myers is either constantly in the background or the cinematography gives you the impression he could be (long, wide empty streets etc). One of my favourite bits is when he passes by in a car in the background, completely out of focus, and the film makes no attempt to bring your attention to it. That's creepy.

I noted this film's attempt to mimic those parts at one point with Michael stood behind a tree in the graveyard and it didn't work at all. You can't just cut to a shot of a bloke stood behind a tree and expect it to have the same impact when the surrounding film has no suspense, not helped by it taking place during a scene with the podcasters.

The deaths are so much more gruesome, purely because that's what other movies were doing [...] He isn't a mysterious inhuman force, he's just a nutter [...]The problem is it's saddled with the dull backstory and gory conventions

You could be reviewing the new one here.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 21, 2018, 11:41:22 AM
This review better articulates how I feel:

https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/halloween-2018

Quote
As much I hate to say this, I’m not sure that David Gordon Green, Danny McBride and the people behind a new sequel to John Carpenter’s “Halloween” really understand what made the first film a masterpiece. Their highly anticipated take on the legend of Michael Myers is admirable in its thematic relation to Carpenter’s vision, but the no-nonsense, tightly-directed aspect of the influential classic just isn’t a part of this one. Carpenter’s movie is so tautly refined that the sometimes incompetent slackness of this one is all the more frustrating. As is the complete lack of atmosphere, another strength of the original. In that first movie, you can hear the crunch of the leaves and smell Fall in the air. This one always feels like a movie, never transporting you or offering the tactile terror of the story of The Shape. Green and McBride are playing with some interesting themes and there’s a female empowerment story of trauma here that’s interesting (but underdeveloped), but do you know the biggest sin of the new “Halloween”? It’s just not scary. And that’s one thing you could never say about the original.

What I like most about the new “Halloween” is that its message could be boiled down to something as simple as “Don’t Fuck Around with Evil.” Don’t try and study it, or understand it, or do a podcast about it, or whatever—just kill it. Laurie Strode (Jamie Lee Curtis) learned this lesson the hard way the night she survived an attack by Michael Myers, who has been incarcerated for the 40 years since (this movie pretends all of the sequels never happened, even number two, and even has a character make fun of the stories about Michael being Laurie’s brother and things like “revenge” and “curses” in a way that comes off as snarky more than clever). Laurie has lived as her own kind of prisoner since that night, completely terrified of the day Michael would come home, basically becoming a doomsday prepper, turning her home into a heavily armed bunker. She also obsessively taught her daughter (Judy Greer) how to fend off the ultimate attacker, so much so that she’s nearly estranged from her.

“Halloween” opens with a pair of podcasters going to meet Michael and Laurie for a piece they’re doing, allowing for a lot of the last paragraph’s “what have they been up to” exposition. Michael has been completely silent for four decades, never saying a word, but the podcasters think it a good idea to bring him his mask on the day of the interview, meaning they (and it) will be nearby when Mike later escapes and beats them to death. As he makes his way back to Haddonfeld on Halloween, a dozen or so victims stand in his way, including Laurie’s granddaughter and some of her teenage friends, some hapless cops, and a few other locals. There’s an excellently staged sequence as Michael’s killing spree starts and Green’s camera stays mostly outside of homes, watching the icon go about his work through windows.

And yet even this moment feels almost too precious. Green makes a number of explicit references to Carpenter’s film with dialogue and even shots, but there’s a difference between referencing something and actually incorporating it into a new vision. The former is just an echo, and that’s often what I felt watching “Halloween”—the echo of the original is loud, but that’s ultimately hollow compared to sequels that truly build on what came before instead of just expressing how much they love it.

Worst of all, Green bungles the ending. I would never spoil it, but you might imagine that an evening massacre that its central characters have been anticipating for four decades has to really stick the landing. At its best, “Halloween” is about a woman dealing with trauma for more than half her life, and only able to exorcise her demon when she faces him again. That sets up a great deal of pressure on the closing scenes, and—other than one nice twist—“Halloween” just doesn’t deliver when it needs to most of all.

I walked into “Halloween” wanting to feel the magic of the original again in some form. Carpenter's film is one of my favorite films of all time. And David Gordon Green and Danny McBride are clearly smart guys, bringing a higher pedigree than nearly any other horror sequel, allowing for optimism. And there are, of course, elements that display Green’s craftsmanship more than, say, Dwight H. Little (director of “Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Myers”). I’ve heard a number of people say that it’s the best “Halloween” sequel, to which one almost has to laugh at the low height of that bar. And shouldn’t we expect more from a project this high profile than “better than H20?” Especially when the answer to that question is "just barely."
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 21, 2018, 04:47:20 PM
This is not a good film. It's at least worse than Halloween 2, maybe worse than every other sequel.

And that's the part where you lose people.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 21, 2018, 05:14:55 PM
I think you missed half the film.

And that's the part where you lose people.

Some good rebuttals here.

It fails to even feel like a horror film, as I said. In that sense, I almost would prefer a schlocky B-movie slasher sequel over a film which has pretensions to be more and falls flat on its face. That's what I mean by it being worse than the other sequels. There are shades of Rob Zombie, both in how it demystifies the character, and in the way its brutality works to undermine the tension.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: New Jack on October 21, 2018, 05:21:38 PM
I'm struggling to get myself excited for this after seeing the word 'podcasters'
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: SavageHedgehog on October 21, 2018, 05:51:23 PM
I wouldn't be too concerned; loathsome characters but we only know they're podcasters from one brief line. Would have assumed them as journalists if that had been cut.

On the whole I liked it quite a bit. A few moments were closer to generic sequel territory than I was expecting (it even briefly threatens and thankfully drops a subplot which could have been almost as silly as the thorn cult) but I did feel it made Myers genuinely creepy again and Curtis is as good as you'd hope. If not quite the Rocky Balboa or Logan of slashers it's much closer to that than the Superman Returns.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Clive Langham on October 21, 2018, 06:19:03 PM
I haven’t seen the film yet, but from reading about it it seems to make a bit of a meal of how traumatised Laurie is. Obviously in the real world people do get traumatised by events, and that goes on to colour their lives, but is it really believable that something that happened forty years ago should have affected her so deeply that it’s ruined her relationship with everyone she knows and caused her to spend four decades obsessively training herself and preparing for Myers’ inevitable return?

Only five people actually die in the original Halloween (and two dogs). Not to sound heartless but that’s far fewer than die in the average school shooting.

In H20 Laurie is depicted as a PTSD-afflicted high-functioning alcoholic, but that film is a sequel to Halloween II, in which an additional ten people get iced. Also Myers is her brother, which is an additional reason for her to be terrified he’ll bother to track her down. I can definitely understand someone being incredibly traumatised by an attack that happened, and then happened AGAIN, that lead to fifteen deaths, and was done by her brother.

But in the new film she seems twice as traumatised as she was in H20, despite the fact that in this timeline Myers is just some anonymous loony who attacked her decades ago when she was a teenager, killed five people, and has been dormant ever since (and is now an elderly man.)

Obviously I’m glad to say that nobody I know has ever been murdered by a masked killer,, but…I don’t know, it just seems that they’re making a bit too much of it.

But like I see, I haven’t seen it. Can anyone who has seen it comment?


Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 21, 2018, 09:49:10 PM
Sorry to keep posting but I keep thinking of issues I have with this and how it compares to the original and I need to get it out somehow. I'm rambling a bit.

I feel that this film gets the portrayal of Michael Myers and the world of the original wrong in a few ways, and the way they use the mask is emblematic of that.

The original hinges on the power of Michael's POV, what's inside his head (or what's not inside it), how the mask transforms him. It opens with his POV, just before picking up his first mask. You only see his face twice, and his adult face once, briefly. Importantly that adult face is seen towards the end of the film, when you've become used to seeing him as an otherworldly figure, and it's a shock.

He scrambles to get his mask back on at that point because it dehumanises him: there's a suggestion that it gives him power, or he believes it does, like it's channeling that boogey man the kids keep talking about. What's more is that he knows the mask is scary - he's trying to scare people throughout the film. He makes threatening phone calls, he stares at people from a distance, he gets in that ghost costume at one point, and he creates a house of horrors with the dead bodies. You could maybe infer that he loves Halloween night for that reason: he takes the excitement of creating fear too far, maybe.

The other thing with the mask is that when you see his face it's completely ordinary, and that's scary too: like most real life serial killers, his appearance is of a normal guy. Throughout the film the idea is toyed with that he may be supernatural in some way, rising from the dead and disappearing etc, but the reveal of the face casts doubt on that. Maybe he's desperate to get the mask back on because it gives him that aura. But when the film ends, and he seemingly survives being shot six times out of the window, that push and pull of "is he otherworldly or just a man?" is paid off as it seems to suggest the former.

All this to say that right off the bat I feel that this new film loses all of that. You see far too much of Michael's face too early, so that by the time he gets the mask he isn't otherworldy at all - we've seen him go on a rampage killing several people by that point and had a good look at him. There's no mystery, he's not a ghost or a shape, he's a nutter in a mask.

And the portrayal of his body and face isn't the fairly ordinary guy of the original - it's a Jason Vorhees hulking monster. He's noticeably taller than the original with a huge build, and the camera makes sure to give you a good view of his scars. They want to make the man under the mask a monster, like Rob Zombie did, which sucks the magic out of the character.

I think a common theme of my complaints is that they haven't followed the creed of the original that less is more. The original, like Alien, is best in the first half before the action begins. Every bit of tension is wrung from not much happening. Characters are made to feel vulnerable as they walk through streets and houses with space and silence around them, until that tension becomes unbearable. Maybe the new film thinks it's doing that with how slow it starts, but it has no atmosphere, and ruins momentum by cutting between so many groups of generic characters. The original stays with two small groups of characters who intersect, so for as shallow as their characters are, you at least stay with them long enough to invest in them.

I even feel with this new one that Carpenter's score is misused, going too big too soon, while the quieter pieces from the original barely get a look in. That's not a criticism of the music, just where the different pieces come in and what effect that has.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: SavageHedgehog on October 22, 2018, 10:37:34 AM
But like I see, I haven’t seen it. Can anyone who has seen it comment?

Well in the real world there’s no set rule for how people will react to trauma or tragedy, and in this film they do make it clear that she’s certainly tried to live a normal life over the last 40 years.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 22, 2018, 04:46:58 PM
I think one of the film's few flaws is the lack of a subtitle.

Halloween: The _______ of Michael Myers. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 22, 2018, 05:14:20 PM
I think one of the film's few flaws is the lack of a subtitle.

Halloween: The _______ of Michael Myers. Any suggestions?

Halloween: The "Force Awakens" of Michael Myers Films
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 22, 2018, 05:19:47 PM
Halloween: The "Force Awakens" of Michael Myers Films

I'm not sure you understood the rules.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Avril Lavigne on October 22, 2018, 07:24:40 PM
I think one of the film's few flaws is the lack of a subtitle.

Halloween: The _______ of Michael Myers. Any suggestions?

New Adventures
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 22, 2018, 07:47:27 PM
New Adventures

+1
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: New Jack on October 22, 2018, 09:10:00 PM
Halloween: The Halloween of Michael Myers
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: idunnosomename on October 22, 2018, 10:27:54 PM
"Spy Who Shagged Me"
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Replies From View on October 22, 2018, 10:43:04 PM
Halloween (2018):  The Pink Panther of Michael Myers

Halloween (2021):  The Shot in the Dark of Michael Myers
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: New Jack on October 22, 2018, 11:00:40 PM
Halloween: The Edgy, Post-Austin Powers Reboot of Michael Myers
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: thecuriousorange on October 23, 2018, 12:55:53 PM
The next will be a soft-boiled reboot simply called "Michael".
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 23, 2018, 02:20:45 PM
The next will be a soft-boiled reboot simply called "Michael".

Been done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(2011_Austrian_film)
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Golden E. Pump on October 23, 2018, 02:57:13 PM
It needs a musical sequel.

Michael McDonald's Halloween, featuring the classics:

Ja Mo B There (Breathing Heavily in Your Closet)
I Keep Forgettin' (How Many Sequels There Are)
Sweet Freedom (From a Psychiatric Hospital)

And of course,

What a Corpse Believes featuring Kenny Loggins and Jamie Lee Curtis.

The Dead-Eyed Soul experience, coming to theatres everywhere this Halloween.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: ErnestTakadichi on October 23, 2018, 04:26:53 PM
the podcasters

Just reading these two words has ensured I will never, ever watch this film.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: lipsink on October 23, 2018, 04:47:56 PM
The next will be a soft-boiled reboot simply called "Michael".

Maybe they'll go the Logan route and have one called 'Myers'. He passes on the torch to a new young crazy on the block.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: New Jack on October 23, 2018, 08:02:00 PM
Just reading these two words has ensured I will never, ever watch this film.

See, I was thinking that, and posted as such a few days ago, then I realised half the fun of films like this is seeing people get murdered violently

And do I want to see podcasters getting murdered violently? Well, yes. Yes I do.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Replies From View on October 24, 2018, 10:18:49 PM
Culkin in redlettermedia review.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Shameless Custard on October 25, 2018, 12:52:29 PM
Gonna go see this next Friday, but it's disheartening to read some of the reviews it's getting. After rewatching the perfect original today, I'm really up for a decent sequel. Bit sad to hear this might not be it

But the original. Man oh man. Still a belter

Might rewatch III again soon, as although that has cock-all to do with the first film, it's still a lotta fun. Glad it's so loved on here. We know the score
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: thecuriousorange on October 25, 2018, 01:06:53 PM
Been done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(2011_Austrian_film)

I thought the link was going to take me to this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(1996_film) (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_(1996_film))
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on October 25, 2018, 01:07:40 PM
Gonna go see this next Friday, but it's disheartening to read some of the reviews it's getting. After rewatching the perfect original today, I'm really up for a decent sequel. Bit sad to hear this might not be it

But the original. Man oh man. Still a belter

Might rewatch III again soon, as although that has cock-all to do with the first film, it's still a lotta fun. Glad it's so loved on here. We know the score

Um, the new one has had generally excellent reviews. A few negative ones, but its RT score is higher than the remake of Suspiria.

I thought it was superb. A skilful homage to the original that expand its world to allow more thematic material while not diluting the basic thriller elements of the original. It's not trying to say the original was dumb, more allowing it more time and space to explore the fallout from the first film in more depth and implicitly criticising previous sequels' attempts to "explain" Michael in a way that cheapen and undermine the central concept.

The cast is excellent with the exception of New Loomis, who felt a little too much like a caricature, but its easy to see how that character was intended before it was given to an actor who seemed happy to ham it up. The photography takes its cue from the first film - simple, unfussy composition that emphasises the normalcy of the environment invaded by Michael. Carpenter's score is obviously fantastic, probably his best in 30 years. It's a flawed film, but it has been made with love, thought and care by people who really want to get it right and who understand why the first film works.

It's obviously the best Halloween sequel, but it's also one of the best films I've seen this year.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Shameless Custard on October 25, 2018, 01:49:14 PM
Well, your post has got me excited! Thanks for that
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: kngen on October 25, 2018, 11:25:41 PM
This is not a good film. It's at least worse than Halloween 2, maybe worse than every other sequel.

It's flat and tensionless, often not even feeling like a horror film. Just having a maniac killing dozens of people doesn't make it a horror film, otherwise Silence of the Lambs and No Country for Old Men would be horror films, and I actually think those were scarier, and certainly more tense.

It did itself no favours by opening with the podcasters and spending so much time with them. The use of podcasting seems so unnecessarily zeitgesty in the way that webcams and reality tv were used in Resurrection. And the bloke reminded me of Elaine's boyfriend from London in Seinfeld, same voice, clothes, haircut. Cliche American idea of an English person. Awful character.

And that was the biggest issue - too many characters, and almost all bad. It was like the pilot of a HBO series with how many characters there were in this, and several of them disappeared after a bit. Where did the boyfriend go? Or the black cop in the cowboy hat? Why did a new pair of comic relief cops have to appear doing a Pulp Fiction routine about Korean sandwiches right at the end of the film?

The abundance of characters and even extras is the biggest reason there's no tension. Look at how in the original the streets are deserted; you never see any of the girls' families; that one woman behind the curtain turns off the light and leaves Laurie on the street, and you don't get a sense of anyone being in any of the other houses. That's eerie. It's a dead town.

Compare that to this film where there's a Halloween fiesta going on in the streets and there's a big dance and multiple people around at all times. At one point the grand daughter escapes after Michael kills the fat lad and gets comforted by a family of people and several police officers. There's nothing spooky or dangerous about that.

The scariest moments in the original are when nothing happens: Michael stood in the distance, seen through a foggy window, either staring or carrying the dead body around the side of the house with no scary music to tell you how to feel; or the one girl walking outside to do the laundry and getting stuck in the window. This film had none of that.

And the bit towards the end with the zooms into a load of mannequin heads was laughable, like a parody. This is not a good film. It Follows, which got panned by this forum, is much closer in spirit to what a Halloween film should be.

Saw it last night, and agree with all of this. Very disappointing.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: StewartLeehaslethimselfgo on October 26, 2018, 12:14:37 AM
Gonna agree with most reviews so far and say this was good and the best sequel/remake/reboot so far of the series; the score, certain kills, the little kid being babysat character and the final 30 minutes were great
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 30, 2018, 05:02:55 PM
I enjoyed this podcast:

https://www.podbean.com/podcast-detail/tveg6-695d0/Halloweenies-A-Michael-Myers-Podcast

The latest episode is over 3 hours of discussing this film. They're pretty disparaging towards it which I needed for my own sanity seeing how successful it's been.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on October 31, 2018, 04:39:11 PM
^ Interesting thing from this is that they really liked Halloween 6, which they were surprised by. It's the one I always put as the best sequel after 3 but it's generally the one people go to when discussing how bad the franchise is.

It's a bit messy but it has a great atmosphere, very of it's mid-90's time, like Wes Craven's New Nightmare, where it was trying to get tonally back on track and take the genre somewhat seriously after the increasingly goofy slashers of the 80's. I feel like it's got a worse reputation than it deserves both because of its troubled production and because it's the end of the original continuity.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: iamcoop on November 01, 2018, 01:01:58 PM
Saw this last night; packed house, Halloween night.

Not one single scream or decent crowd reaction during the whole thing.

It’s rubbish.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: NoSleep on November 01, 2018, 02:25:34 PM
Many people's greatest fear.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Famous Mortimer on November 02, 2018, 10:21:57 AM
^ Interesting thing from this is that they really liked Halloween 6, which they were surprised by. It's the one I always put as the best sequel after 3 but it's generally the one people go to when discussing how bad the franchise is.

It's a bit messy but it has a great atmosphere, very of it's mid-90's time, like Wes Craven's New Nightmare, where it was trying to get tonally back on track and take the genre somewhat seriously after the increasingly goofy slashers of the 80's. I feel like it's got a worse reputation than it deserves both because of its troubled production and because it's the end of the original continuity.
I feel like people who defend Halloween 6 are just jaded sorts who've been on the internet too long. It's such a miserable failure. Like how he's suddenly the recipient of the Mark of Thorn and his indestructibility is due to that curse - one that's never been so much as hinted at in any previous movie. Why are no other members of the cult also immortal, indestructible killing machines? Why does (it's very heavily implied) Michael father a child when the ultimate aim of the cult is to kill every member of his own family? It's stated in the movie that unless he kills all his own family on Samhain, a demon will come down and spread sickness and destruction. Given that he fails every time, why has the demon not started the job? (maybe I'm misunderstanding some intricate part of the plot here). Oh, why didn't the guy who busted him out of prison also help him when he was locked up in part 1, or part 4?

The last half hour feels like they just gathered all the shots they had left and spliced them together at random. The one where Paul Rudd and Donald Pleasance go "huh, I guess we were drugged" when they realised they had nothing to lead on from one particular scene is one I really enjoyed.

Before I get some goon shouting at me, you are (of course) entitled to any damn opinion you please, and that you like part 3 is an indicator you and I like very different things about the series. But part 6?


Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on November 02, 2018, 11:21:46 AM
Making him the chosen one of a Celtic cult is just so incredibly BORING, like you have to put him in a box and label him. He's so much more effective when he's just an unknowable agent of chaos and death, rather than fulfilling a prophecy for a bunch of people doing rituals with candles. It takes all the menace and atmosphere away and replaces it with cheese.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on November 02, 2018, 03:33:43 PM
No arguments about the plot itself, which is nonsense. But I like the atmosphere and tone. I think you need to watch it as its own thing rather than as another sequel attempting to stretch the story out. I haven't seen 4-8 for years though, to be fair, but my memory is that none of them are good, but that the first half of 6 is at least the creepiest section of that batch of sequels. I think that 6 has just become an easy thing to make fun of ("The mark of thorn???") by jaded types who have been part of the internet hivemind too long as its easy to pick out its flaws and you won't get much argument by stating that opinion. Number 5, for one, is clearly a much worse movie, but gets mentioned much less frequently because it's harder to pretend to be interesting when discussing it.

For clarity, I'm not saying it's good.

And if Halloween 3 was a standalone John Carpenter film with a different name (I know he didn't write and direct it, but it feels like a Carpenter film), then it wouldn't have had a bad reputation for years. It fits alongside the Carpenter films of the time like The Thing and They Live. It has a bit of an 80's Cronenberg feel, and a bit of the Leonard Nimoy Invasion of the Body Snatchers in there too. It's a really good sci-fi horror in its own right and shouldn't be compared to the other Halloween films.

That was my polite reply. I'll add that I think you famous mortimer are a daft ignorant cunt. Of course I must be jaded to see merits in something which the hivemind have passed critical judgement on, you cheeky fucker. I'll add that I'm not a fan of Alien 3, Predator 2, or The Phantom Menace, as you obviously think I'm being contrarian.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: colacentral on November 02, 2018, 03:42:01 PM
Before I get some goon shouting at me

Rather than add a disclaimer, you could just avoid being a stupid twat.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on November 02, 2018, 04:13:14 PM
Curse has the seed of an interesting idea, but its just very-badly bungled in the attempt to give Michael a backstory. There's no understanding of why the first film worked. 5 is just as bad, but throws random elements at the screen that have no connection with each other or previous films. 5 is demonstrably a worse film, but Curse is a bad Halloween film.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: SavageHedgehog on November 02, 2018, 05:09:02 PM
There is a case that if you've reached the fifth (or fourth depending on how you look at it) sequel to a pretty open and shut film which was then nailed shut by the first sequel, you may as well go for broke, and Curse at least approaches broke unlike, say, Return of Michael Myers which is far more competent but much blander. For this reason I preferred the Producer's Cut to the Theatrical, with more of the Thorn nonsense, although I wont pretend we're talking night and day here.

I think you could probably make a pretty solid case that Zombie's two films are better than most of the sequels, but I think it's also a case of picking your poison, and I personally find the slasher cheese of #2-6 more appealing than Zombie's adolescent shock tactics and nihilism.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Shameless Custard on November 03, 2018, 09:00:12 AM
For the most part, I liked this. Some really good moments scattered throughout, and I actually think they captured the feel and tone of the original film quite well.

But I probably could've done without the doctor/psychologist bloke, the podcasters, and much of the stabs at humour fell completely flat for me. "That's lunch a four year old would make", etc. And there's other stupid lines, like the kid telling his dad that "dancing gets me hard". Did I mishear that, or was that actually said? Urghh.

The last forty or so minutes are solid, however. And although it was clearly sequel baiting, I did enjoy the final showdown. Laurie going all Sarah Connor was a good direction to go in, and Jamie Lee Curtis is excellent throughout, and I really was rooting for her and her family.

So not a particularly great film, but a solid enough sequel to the original, and I'm looking forward to slotting it next to the first film on my shelf.

Three buns

Btw, the IMDB trivia on this film is really interesting. So many nods to the original film and the sequels. I've not seen any of the sequels, but giving II a watch this morning, out of pure curiosity. Maybe H20, too
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Bad Ambassador on November 03, 2018, 10:07:02 AM
And there's other stupid lines, like the kid telling his dad that "dancing gets me hard". Did I mishear that, or was that actually said? Urghh.

I think you just misheard that. I've seen it twice and didn't notice it.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: kngen on November 03, 2018, 11:20:50 PM
I think you just misheard that. I've seen it twice and didn't notice it.

That's definitely said.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Shameless Custard on November 04, 2018, 10:44:59 AM
Thought so! What a bizarrely inappropriate thing to say to your dad. Or is that how da kidz chat these days?

Red Letter Media's review is mostly positive, and pretty much chimed with my own views. But I did laff at Mike saying he thought they were setting up the kid to dance Michael Myers to death

https://youtu.be/90joZNE9oOA
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Shaky on November 05, 2018, 01:52:25 AM
Thought this was enjoyably solid but I have mixed feelings overall. It never really comes close to justifying it's existence (could it ever?) and it was impossible to leave 40 years of franchise baggage at the door even if most of the sequels have now been expunged. There were also way too many on the nose script and directorial moments - not sure we needed to be told 40 years had passed quite so many times. It was also almost entirely unscary but reasonably tense. Despite all that, it was decently crafted & paced and Jamie Lee was ace.

I quite liked that it looked at one point as if Loomis #2 was going to don the mask for the rest of the film to become the new Michael, a potential twist that put me in mind of Psycho 2 the novel.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: StewartLeehaslethimselfgo on November 05, 2018, 06:34:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8H3M0DDWDs

Special mention to this btw, thought it was brilliant, one of Carpenters best
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: Moribunderast on November 06, 2018, 01:14:25 PM
I thought this was fun for what it was. Gotta say though, is it just a general rule in society now that people talk through horror films and that's okay? Get Out, Hereditary, Halloween, Mother! - all recent horror films I've seen where people just nattered on incessantly throughout. I don't get it. Surely the beauty of a horror film is in it building tension BEFORE the scares? Apparently not as cunts are just there to treat it like a rollercoaster ride where they scream at the scary bits and laugh and chat over everything else. I wish they were all stabbed to death by a masked fellow.
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: SteveDave on November 06, 2018, 05:27:50 PM
I wish they were all stabbed to death by a masked fellow.

"Be the change you want to see in the world"
Title: Re: The Destruction Of The Halloween Universe/Canon
Post by: SteveDave on December 24, 2018, 10:43:07 AM
This is available now and I was pleasantly surprised to find out that the new doctor was played by Mehmet Osman from Eastenders!

Other than that (and the little kid who was being babysat) it felt very flat.