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Forums => Deeper Into Movies => Topic started by: bgmnts on December 24, 2018, 11:04:35 AM

Title: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: bgmnts on December 24, 2018, 11:04:35 AM
As a series of films I can't think of anything better or more lovingly adapted.

Everything works for me. The acting, the script, the score, the costumes, the settings, even the CGI is well done.

I think its even better than Star Wars trilogy for me.

It's at least the best film adaptation of a book isn't it?

Its perfect.

I remember seeing the Two Towers in the cinema when I was about 11 and seeing Gandalf fight the Balrog whilst falling down the chasm was mindblowing. The scene with the Ents marching to war with Isengard too.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 24, 2018, 11:18:18 AM
Difficult to think of a more awe inspiring first film anyway. Lots of the original film relies on old fashioned film making techniques and the CGI is used much more carefully.

Fellowship is definitely the best fantasy adventure film I've seen. Immersive, brilliant and tense and everything is going wrong.

When the narratives split off in the next two films the pacing gets very tricky. I still think they are astounding and hair-raising in places but would look at them as hugely ambitious rather than total successes.

Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: MuteBanana on December 24, 2018, 11:22:05 AM
Most amazing trilogy in my lifetime I think. Every film is epic.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on December 24, 2018, 12:31:34 PM
I like them a good deal, but best films ever? Nah.

For one thing, they would be vastly improved if the characters didn't all speak in slow motion.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: momatt on December 24, 2018, 12:46:31 PM
No.

Mate, you must have never seen Starcrash.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Dex Sawash on December 24, 2018, 01:06:49 PM

I think you need to say best English language films because the Taxi films are the best series of films.




Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 24, 2018, 01:13:30 PM
They are incredibly audacious and extremely well produced. Generally very well cast with maybe only one glaringly obvious casting fuck-up, unfortunately in a very central role.

(https://media.beliefnet.com/~/media/photos-with-attribution/entertainment/galleries/movie%20characters%20who%20overcame%20the%20odds/frodo_credit-new-line-cinema.jpg?as=1&w=400)

The problem with the adaptation is Jackson thinks he is a better story teller than Tolkien. Phillipa, the characters just don't emote enough for a modern audience, we must make them all into pointless feeble cunts otherwise no-one will be able to relate. Yes Peter I completely agree and you are so good at films.

Apart from that, yes very good.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Kelvin on December 24, 2018, 02:23:18 PM
Absolutely not. The first film is excellent, bar a couple of silly bits, but the 2nd and especially the third film are really repetitive slogs, adapted from boring repetitive books. Sauron being a literal eye, endless battles and inspiring speeches, crap special fx, 10,000 endings, and increasingly dull charachters.

A lot of these problems stem from the books, of course, but that doesn't make the later films any better.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: CaledonianGonzo on December 24, 2018, 03:57:02 PM
What's the beef with Elijah Wood? He's uncannily well cast.  It's difficult to imagine anyone else in the role.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: BlodwynPig on December 24, 2018, 04:01:52 PM
Bgmnts, young fool!!
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Small Man Big Horse on December 24, 2018, 04:10:01 PM
No.

Mate, you must have never seen Starcrash.

Momatt speaks the truth. And almost as good as Starcrash is Sion Sono's Love Exposure which'd be my suggestion for best ever film. I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings films at the time but have no urge to rewatch them, and I doubt they'd make my Top 100 list.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 24, 2018, 04:16:27 PM
What's the beef with Elijah Wood? He's uncannily well cast.  It's difficult to imagine anyone else in the role.

Godawful accent. And, well, just no. He's great himself, fabulous in The Ice Storm for example, but as Frodo Baggins? It's casting designed to make the film appeal to the American demographic. Sorry but this part required an English voice, not an American voice.

edit to add - I mean it's like a scar all over the whole set of movies. 'We will go through the mynes'. It's almost as stupid as having the rest of the hobbit party being a bumpkin, a Scot, and an Irish. Just fuck off Peter.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: magval on December 24, 2018, 06:00:27 PM
...Sauron being a literal eye...

What's he in the book?
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: St_Eddie on December 24, 2018, 06:08:51 PM
Best films ever made?  If you're an insomniac, then yes, absolutely.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Kelvin on December 24, 2018, 06:16:33 PM
What's he in the book?

I don't remember. Wasn't it more a metaphorical eye, like an evil presence that could see the world? I just find the idea of Sauron being a literal eyeball at the top of a big tower utterly ridiculous - regardless of where it stems from originally. I preferred how they adapted it in the Hobbit films, with the eye containing a spirit of 'humanoid' sauron as it's pupil. More like a portal.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shit Good Nose on December 24, 2018, 06:25:07 PM
Haaaaaaaaaa-hahahahahahahahahaaaaa.  Oooohhhhhh...

No.

Fellowship is good, the extended cut of Two Towers is excellent, the third hasn't got enough endings.  All three have aged quite badly.

You need to see yourself some Kurosawa, Tarkovsky, Klimov, Herzog.  Hell, the portions of Caddyshack that focus on something other than Danny's love life and college plans are better.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Kelvin on December 24, 2018, 06:26:43 PM
Re: the eye

In fact, I really like how they did it in the first LotR film, with the eye piercing anyone who wore the ring, but feeling more like an incorporeal spirit, partially glimpsed.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: bgmnts on December 24, 2018, 06:27:11 PM
Haaaaaaaaaa-hahahahahahahahahaaaaa.  Oooohhhhhh...

No.

Fellowship is good, the extended cut of Two Towers is excellent, the third hasn't got enough endings.  All three have aged quite badly.

You need to see yourself some Kurosawa, Tarkovsky, Klimov, Herzog.  Hell, the portions of Caddyshack that focus on something other than Danny's love life and college plans are better.

Akira Kurosawa is a favourite of mine.

I just think the LotR is amazing.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 24, 2018, 06:31:33 PM
Hello!


No the Lord of the Rings films are not even very good at all.


Hope that helps!!
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: biggytitbo on December 24, 2018, 06:37:08 PM
The first one is very good. Better than any of the Star Wars but not as good as Raiders of the lost ark.

The second one is a turgid cinematic atrocity that probably ranks somewhere between Confessions from a holiday camp and that film michael flattery made himself where he is a spy who has sex with loads of much younger women. The third isn't as bad as that, but it's still too long and tedious and self indulgent.

Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 24, 2018, 08:37:28 PM
It’s basically Narnia isn’t it.  So if you have seen the BBC Narnia productions there is no need to watch any of the Lord of the Rings films.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Funcrusher on December 24, 2018, 08:39:26 PM
Massive no from me.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: NoSleep on December 24, 2018, 08:40:44 PM
I can think of several books that have been adapted to film a lot better, too. It may be the most ambitious attempt, but not the most successful.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: The Boston Crab on December 24, 2018, 09:03:02 PM
Great entertainment, the 'chips' of the medium but off the top of my head:

Chungking Express
Tree of Life
Seven Samurai
Sword of Doom
Tampopo
The New World
Jules and Jim
Bugsy Malone
Predator
Aliens
The Hidden Fortress
Home Alone
Ran
Gremlins
Terminator 2
Trains, Planes and Automobiles

Better
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: BlodwynPig on December 24, 2018, 09:04:21 PM
Bgmnts millennial falcon teaser
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Goldentony on December 24, 2018, 09:06:58 PM
utter shit, no cunt gets their face torn off
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: The Boston Crab on December 24, 2018, 09:09:46 PM
Best films ever made if there apramets of your experience are Emorie magzine best ever films ussue
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 24, 2018, 09:56:47 PM
The Lord of the Rings is a list-of-things thread in the form of three films.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: BlodwynPig on December 24, 2018, 10:09:58 PM
Merry Christmas
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Delete Delete Delete on December 24, 2018, 10:31:53 PM
Its effectivly this for 9 hours https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuI23zCudKY

Way too long.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: KennyMonster on December 24, 2018, 10:58:49 PM
The first one was OK.

The second one was so tedious and boring I refuse to see the third until Peter fucking Jackson personally comes round and helps me regain the three weeks of my life I lost watching The Two Towers.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: PlanktonSideburns on December 24, 2018, 11:02:54 PM
Oh no he has dropped some piece of jewelry HE MUST BE DEAD

Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Catalogue Trousers on December 24, 2018, 11:07:23 PM
Shield-surfing fucking elf. Get tae fuck.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 24, 2018, 11:31:45 PM
Simply put the ring in a swimming pool filled with loads of other rings so that gollick or whatever can’t find the right one.

Did they ever find out who the Lord of the Rings was?
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Dex Sawash on December 25, 2018, 12:48:47 AM
What's he in the book?

Overboiled text on a page
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: QDRPHNC on December 25, 2018, 01:45:11 AM
I loved them when they first came out, but like the Matrix, they're victims of their own success.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on December 25, 2018, 06:44:54 AM
Haaaaaaaaaa-hahahahahahahahahaaaaa.  Oooohhhhhh...

No.

Fellowship is good, the extended cut of Two Towers is excellent, the third hasn't got enough endings.  All three have aged quite badly.

You need to see yourself some Kurosawa, Tarkovsky, Klimov, Herzog.  Hell, the portions of Caddyshack that focus on something other than Danny's love life and college plans are better.

Honestly though thats really the same "film vs movie" debate that was had a few months ago isn't it? I find it hard to directly compare something like Lord of the Rings  to say Stalker or Ran because the intension and viewing experience is just so different.

As blockbuster cinema I think there definitely up there with the best, maybe a bit out of fashion now as they take themselves pretty seriously rather than being full of meta references that basically serve to tell the viewer "your not a geek for watching this!".
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 25, 2018, 07:57:13 AM
Massive no from me.

That is quite a little no actually, look at it, it's small, even when you move your head really really close up to it
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 25, 2018, 07:58:18 AM
Quote
Did they ever find out who the Lord of the Rings was?

Alan
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: samadriel on December 25, 2018, 08:33:24 AM
Alan
(https://img.discogs.com/XcYpre4qHHGDqDqNx48_0uoeEDU=/fit-in/300x300/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(40)/discogs-images/A-517646-1231997310.jpeg.jpg)
"Wot?"
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: magval on December 25, 2018, 08:35:58 AM
Is there any skellington soldiers in this
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Uncle TechTip on December 25, 2018, 09:38:24 AM
Godawful accent. And, well, just no. He's great himself, fabulous in The Ice Storm for example, but as Frodo Baggins? It's casting designed to make the film appeal to the American demographic. Sorry but this part required an English voice, not an American voice.

edit to add - I mean it's like a scar all over the whole set of movies. 'We will go through the mynes'. It's almost as stupid as having the rest of the hobbit party being a bumpkin, a Scot, and an Irish. Just fuck off Peter.

In the context of some fantasy quest through a mythical landscape to find a magic object that exudes magical properties, I'm surprised to read such a complaint.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 25, 2018, 11:41:06 AM
Film 1 (I have seen this one):

The Gonads leave Trumpton and meet a list of monsters that is of arbitrary length, and there is a cliffhanger around the fact they have to keep on going for two more films.  Watch it if you like YouTube videos of some hikers randomly going “OH JESUS LET’S NOW SUDDENLY HIDE UNDER THIS ROCK” that take up three hours of your life.


Film 2 (not seen it):

Hopefully they use the Two Towers for a bungee experiment but I can’t be arsed either way.


Film 3 (not seen it):

Some kind of big long fight I guess, loads of CGI, loads of superfluous dance sequences added to pad out this arbitrary-lengthed thing that could have ended ten minutes into the film with no harm done.  And then they all say goodbye to each other for about a year.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Sin Agog on December 25, 2018, 12:50:02 PM
I hate these blindingly obvious Last Word posts, but...

If you think they are, they are.

By the way, when I went to see ROTK, a probably homeless man with a mug of beer next to me fell asleep in the first thirty seconds, and then awoke in the last thirty seconds, declaring, "Enjoyable.". Beats Mark Kermode.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: thraxx on December 25, 2018, 01:21:41 PM
Is there any skellington soldiers in this

Yes but they is not skellingtons in the true sense but goast skellington hybrids with speshal powers and that with goast skellington horses.  There is also a gobbling and an oark, but they are controllered by wizzard. Also gollick is in it but he can’t decide if he is a goody or a baddy. All in all an excellent film and Oscar loved it even though it is not as good as The Hobbits.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Norton Canes on December 25, 2018, 01:30:53 PM
I remember seeing the Two Towers in the cinema when I was about 11 and seeing Gandalf fight the Balrog whilst falling down the chasm was mindblowing

Not even in The Two Towers
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 25, 2018, 01:56:43 PM
Yes it is. It's in a flashback scene after Gandalf turns into The White.

"You fell!"
".... through fire..."

My favourite bit of that sequence is the extreme long shot of them both falling into that chasm. Beautiful. There's a lot of artistry in the films which is ignored by their detractors.

Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Norton Canes on December 25, 2018, 02:06:27 PM
Sorry must've been asleep.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: All Surrogate on December 25, 2018, 02:19:48 PM
Hope is kindled. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6LGJ7evrAg&feature=youtu.be&t=54)
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 25, 2018, 03:55:13 PM
The first one is very good. Better than any of the Star Wars but not as good as Raiders of the lost ark.

Good shout from biggy mentioning the Indiana Jones flicks. I watched them again a few months back and they are bloody great - as trilogies go, Indy is near the top of the totem. Great fun.

I liked these LotR films as well though. Prefer the books and agree that Sauron being a literal eye was a bit mad (as he is depicted in the books as incorporeal and seldom glimpsed) but that’s film for you I suppose. In the Silmarillion he has specific forms and is able to assume any he likes, but is denied that power by Eru after corrupting Ar-Pharazôn and creating the conflict that destroys Númenor at the end of the second (?) age. I imagine he’d be a bit more spectral after that - certainly less conspicuous than being an eye-fire on top of a massive pointy tower but what do I know eh.

I forget my point. Merry Christmas. Will see if Mrs Ferris will humour me and put the first film on in the background while I do some Christmas baking.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: St_Eddie on December 25, 2018, 05:11:08 PM
Good shout from biggy mentioning the Indiana Jones flicks. I watched them again a few months back and they are bloody great - as trilogies go, Indy is near the top of the totem. Great fun.

Raiders of the Lost Ark is the greatest movie (as in popcorn flick) ever made, in my estimation.  Virtually faultless and the very embodiment of pure adventure.  Despite the crossover presence of John Rhys-Davies; The Lord of the Rings... not so much.  The lack of Nazis having their faces melted off doesn't help matters much either.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shit Good Nose on December 25, 2018, 06:03:35 PM
they take themselves pretty seriously rather than being full of meta references that basically serve to tell the viewer "your not a geek for watching this!".

Actually that's a very good point and, speaking as someone who is LONG bored of the wink-at-the-camera sarcastic shenanigans of nearly all of the current crop of superhero fantasy films, LOTR seems like a breath of fresh air in comparison.

But their main problem, as I said, is that they've aged quite badly, whereas the likes of the aforementioned Indy trilogy stand up well decades later and against much more advanced films.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 25, 2018, 06:12:46 PM
Fellowship still looks great, timeless.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: biggytitbo on December 25, 2018, 07:12:36 PM
Raiders of the Lost Ark is the greatest movie (as in popcorn flick) ever made, in my estimation.  Virtually faultless and the very embodiment of pure adventure.  Despite the crossover presence of John Rhys-Davies; The Lord of the Rings... not so much.  The lack of Nazis having their faces melted off doesn't help matters much either.

The big problem with the Lord of the Rings films is Peter Jackson is a middling director who got shitter the more he indulged CGI, to the point where he lost touch with any kind of grounded filmmaking technique and got lost in overusing terrible, computer game like cgi cameras. You can create whatever nonsense you want in CGI but once the camera is fake too, zooming in and ut of your charactesa rseholes in a way that is obviously impossible, all sense of reality goes down the toilet and the film flops into farrago of empty noise and whooshing.

For the same reason, King Kong is one of the worst films I've ever seen and Jurassic Park is one of the best. The former does everything stupid and wrong you could possibly do with CGI, like a child let loose in a sweet shop, whereas Spielberg's judicious, artful and limited use of it way back in 1993 has still never been bettered.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 25, 2018, 07:23:24 PM
There's a lot of artistry in the films which is ignored by their detractors.

It's the existence of the artistry, the almost perfect use of the landscape, the incredible attention to detail in the production, the sheer beauty of so many sequences, which makes the rotten things done in the script such a crushing disappointment.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: grassbath on December 25, 2018, 08:15:29 PM
The big problem with the Lord of the Rings films is Peter Jackson is a middling director who got shitter the more he indulged CGI, to the point where he lost touch with any kind of grounded filmmaking technique and got lost in overusing terrible, computer game like cgi cameras. You can create whatever nonsense you want in CGI but once the camera is fake too, zooming in and ut of your charactesa rseholes in a way that is obviously impossible, all sense of reality goes down the toilet and the film flops into farrago of empty noise and whooshing.

This is true of Peter Jackson.

But not a problem that affects the original Lord of the Rings trilogy.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Bazooka on December 25, 2018, 08:24:13 PM
My favourite scene is when the lad throws a watch into boiling tikka masala.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: St_Eddie on December 25, 2018, 11:43:50 PM
The big problem with the Lord of the Rings films is Peter Jackson is a middling director who got shitter the more he indulged CGI, to the point where he lost touch with any kind of grounded filmmaking technique and got lost in overusing terrible, computer game like cgi cameras. You can create whatever nonsense you want in CGI but once the camera is fake too, zooming in and ut of your charactesa rseholes in a way that is obviously impossible, all sense of reality goes down the toilet and the film flops into farrago of empty noise and whooshing.

For the same reason, King Kong is one of the worst films I've ever seen and Jurassic Park is one of the best. The former does everything stupid and wrong you could possibly do with CGI, like a child let loose in a sweet shop, whereas Spielberg's judicious, artful and limited use of it way back in 1993 has still never been bettered.

I completely agree with everything that you just said.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Kelvin on December 26, 2018, 01:36:59 AM
I don't think Jackson was a middling director, at all. He has problems, but a good eye for visuals and charachters, and a sense of the grotesque - certainly compared to most mainstream directors. I agree that he got seduced by the convenience of CGI, though.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: bgmnts on December 26, 2018, 01:48:57 AM
To be fair to him though it must be hard to do epic battle scenes and walking trees, in all their glory, without the use of CGI.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 26, 2018, 01:50:06 AM
Should have just hired some actual walking-tree actors instead of erasing them imho smdh
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Kelvin on December 26, 2018, 01:51:08 AM
As biggy says, though, the issue is more with thing like camera work and CGI movement that our brains know is impossible.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on December 26, 2018, 02:10:16 AM
As biggy says, though, the issue is more with thing like camera work and CGI movement that our brains know is impossible.

Nothing really wrong with that for me though, I mean I know many conventional FX shots are impossible as well yet it doesn't automatically spoil my enjoyment of them.

I would agree one of Jacksons faults is he's taken CGI action to excess at points, its not really presenst much in LOTR bar perhaps Legolas killing the giant elephant in the 3rd film but you do see it in things like the dinosaur chase in Kong or the barrel escape in the Hobbit films. Still though I think the flipside of that is he can deliver some excellent extended action sequence like Kong fighting the T-rex's or the Dwarves and Smaug.

It actually seems as well like a lot of the negativity directed at him post LOTR is due to his reversion more towards his earlier style, Kong the Hobbit films are both naturally more over the top and cartoonish. The CGI excesses are really very much inline with his love of conventional effects previously and indeed he was using it heavily before lOTR with The Frightners.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 26, 2018, 02:29:04 AM
Watching the first one now. Great fun so far.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Dex Sawash on December 26, 2018, 02:33:16 AM
I just watched the middle of the 3rd one. I felt bad for the olyphants and thought Legolad should have kept his as a pet or used it against the "baddies"
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: FerriswheelBueller on December 26, 2018, 02:35:28 AM
I just watched the middle of the 3rd one. I felt bad for the olyphants and thought Legolad should have kept his as a pet or used it against the "baddies"

“Legolad” for 2018 typo of the year!
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Twit 2 on December 26, 2018, 02:45:35 AM
1st film is great, just one brilliantly made set piece after another. I would have been 17 when it came out and it blew me the fuck away. Everything came together on this one. The 2nd and 3rd have their moments but are way too baggy and have some howlingly bad bits. The Hobbit films are turds on a cot death.

Bgmts I hope you are under 21 years old. If not, rewatch those Kurosawa films again properly until you hold the correct opinion on LOTR, cheers.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: magval on December 26, 2018, 07:22:10 AM
Do youse watch the extended or theatrical versions? I've only seen the theatrical cuts once each but remember preferring the shorter version of Two Towers. Too much great Witch King stuff in the Return EE to pass up though
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: monolith on December 26, 2018, 07:35:41 AM
In my head it's the best trilogy ever. I just got them all on blu ray for Christmas so I'll give them another watch soon and see if they're actually shit now that I'm sober and old.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on December 26, 2018, 08:11:54 AM
Do youse watch the extended or theatrical versions? I've only seen the theatrical cuts once each but remember preferring the shorter version of Two Towers. Too much great Witch King stuff in the Return EE to pass up though

Return of the King was the film were Jackson was having to cut a lot of material out of the theatrical  cut to meet a hard boundary of 3 hours 45 mins to avoid an intermission I believe. Might have been better off if he had gone that route though as I suspect the negative opinion of the multiple endings was partly based on people on the verge of wetting themselves during them.

I do actually think there is room for a bit of Lucas like meddling personally in terms of making cuts partway between the two, removing some of the more needless scenes but keeping the better ones, maybe updating the CGI a bit as well such as the Fellowship version of Gollum.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: St_Eddie on December 26, 2018, 01:05:53 PM
I don't think Jackson was a middling director, at all. He has problems, but a good eye for visuals and charachters, and a sense of the grotesque - certainly compared to most mainstream directors. I agree that he got seduced by the convenience of CGI, though.

Just to clarify, in spite of what I said in regards to biggytitbo's post ("I completely agree with everything that you just said"), I don't agree that Jackson is a middling director.  I'm a big fan of his earlier, independent films, Bad Taste and Braindead and whilst I do find his latter films a lot less interesting, I still consider him a cut above your average Hollywood director.  So, more accurately, I almost completely agree with everything that biggytitbo just said.

As biggy says, though, the issue is more with thing like camera work and CGI movement that our brains know is impossible.

This is exactly it.  With practical effects, even when they look dodgy, at least there's a physical camera on set, filming them and as such, the shots are limited to what's physically achievable, in terms of camera movement.  With CGI, a wise artist knows to mimic real-life achievable camera movement.  Unfortunately, a great deal of directors have the camera swooping around 360°, like gameplay footage of an action videogame.  The result is a disconnect between what's on screen and the viewer's conscious or subconscious knowledge of what's possible in terms of camera movement.  Given that the magic trick is to sell to the viewer that what they're seeing is actually happening, within the bound of suspension of disbelief, or at the very least, has been filmed on a set with a physical camera, then in these cases, the magic trick is ruined.

Naturally, one's milage may vary and some may not be bothered by such things but for every person who's not, there's someone who is and that's why a savvy director avoids pulling off psychically impossible camera movement in a computer generated shot.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Norton Canes on December 26, 2018, 01:16:56 PM
Three Tyrannosaurs though, come on.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: momatt on December 26, 2018, 01:48:38 PM
Momatt speaks the truth. And almost as good as Starcrash is Sion Sono's Love Exposure which'd be my suggestion for best ever film. I enjoyed the Lord of the Rings films at the time but have no urge to rewatch them, and I doubt they'd make my Top 100 list.

Thanks, I don't hear that often enough.

Alright, that's going on my big list of films I need to watch, cheers!
Sounds suitably mental/Japanese.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: momatt on December 26, 2018, 02:05:10 PM
I don't think Jackson was a middling director, at all. He has problems, but a good eye for visuals and charachters, and a sense of the grotesque - certainly compared to most mainstream directors. I agree that he got seduced by the convenience of CGI, though.

Braindead (1992) >> LoTR (2001)
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 26, 2018, 02:16:30 PM
Some of the scenes in the extended editions are hilariously superfluous, such as Elrond making another big speech before seeing the fellowship off at the gates, just dead weight. And the worst that comes to mind, a terribly paced scene with Aragorn and Gandalf the White with Gandalf basically summarising the plot thus far.

Would agree that the script sucks at points, but in other places everyone shouts DEEEEAAAAATHHHH!!!! DEEEEEAAAAAAAATHHH!!!! so swings and roundabouts
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Kelvin on December 26, 2018, 02:29:52 PM
Braindead (1992) >> LoTR (2001)

Not quite sure what this means? That he was only good for a brief period?

Maybe true, but you don't direct 4-5 good to great films by accident, and even his weaker films tend to contain interesting visuals or standout scenes. He's certainly not a middling director compared to the countless journeyman Hollywood typically survives on.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on December 27, 2018, 02:07:41 AM
What's the point of Cate Blanchett's character? She's doesn't do anything of note in the plot, but the characters all act like she's queen fancy britches. That whole detour screws up the pacing of the first film, which otherwise has the best sense of adventure to it.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: momatt on December 27, 2018, 10:53:42 AM
Not quite sure what this means? That he was only good for a brief period?

Nah, it means that I like Braindead a lot more than Lord of the Rings.
At least I think so anyway.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Glebe on December 27, 2018, 11:54:44 AM
There's top stuff in all of them, but Fellowship feels like the purest adventure before all the CGI took over.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 27, 2018, 11:58:11 AM
What's the point of Cate Blanchett's character? She's doesn't do anything of note in the plot, but the characters all act like she's queen fancy britches. That whole detour screws up the pacing of the first film, which otherwise has the best sense of adventure to it.

She opts not to take the ring from Frodo. It's the only surefire way she has to defeat Sauron but she chooses not to do it. This is in contrast to Boromir, who doesn't have the strength to resist it.

Also Elrond and Gandalf and Galadriel bear the three rings that the one ring was created to subjugate. Without their power Sauron's orcs would be running amok all over the place. Although I don't really remember how well the film made that point. It does provide the power for her to keep the group safe for a bit.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Timothy on December 27, 2018, 12:04:53 PM
Replace the word best with boring and I agree.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Glebe on December 27, 2018, 12:09:19 PM
What's the point of Cate Blanchett's character? She's doesn't do anything of note in the plot, but the characters all act like she's queen fancy britches. That whole detour screws up the pacing of the first film, which otherwise has the best sense of adventure to it.

She warns Frodo about all the bad shit going down by looking in her birdbath mirror and gives him that light of Eärendil that helps him get Shelob to fuck off.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: daf on December 27, 2018, 12:11:12 PM
Godawful accent. ( . . .) Sorry but this part required an English voice, not an American voice.

He's doing English isn't he? (well, some variant of it anyway)

You can hear his original American voice in one of the commentaries (the one with Sean Astin making an amazing tit of himself)
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 27, 2018, 12:17:28 PM
He's doing English isn't he? (well, some variant of it anyway)

Is he? Christ! He's no Alexis Denisof is he.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 27, 2018, 01:16:20 PM
What I don’t understand about Lord of the Rings is why the characters all have the same name.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: samadriel on December 27, 2018, 01:57:12 PM
What I don’t understand about Lord of the Rings is why the characters all have the same name.
Lordé is a perfectly respectable name, Replies.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: a duncandisorderly on December 27, 2018, 02:17:29 PM
+1 'gremlins' is better.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 27, 2018, 03:02:34 PM
Replace the word best with boring and I agree.

What isn't boring, in your opinion?
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 27, 2018, 03:06:39 PM
What's the point of Cate Blanchett's character? She's doesn't do anything of note in the plot, but the characters all act like she's queen fancy britches. That whole detour screws up the pacing of the first film, which otherwise has the best sense of adventure to it.

Her, Gandalf, Elrond and up until the start of Fellowship, Saruman were effectively guardians of Middle Earth. She loses a great deal of her power before the film starts (as evidenced in The Hobbit 3) so is effectively in an elven retirement home in Lothlorien.

Part of the reason she becomes drawn to the ring is to compensate for losing her power, which I think is a metaphor, unwittingly or otherwise, for the menopause or at least fertility. The key moment is her being strong enough to avoid the lure of the ring despite having a free opportunity to claim it and effectively accepting her lot in life.

However I agree it could be done better and that Jackson and the screenwriters seem to have missed the potential to make those scenes better.

I still think the scenes are beautiful and capture the ethereal state of the elves very well. The shot as the characters stalk across the grass into the forest is very cool.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on December 27, 2018, 03:14:40 PM
She opts not to take the ring from Frodo. It's the only surefire way she has to defeat Sauron but she chooses not to do it. This is in contrast to Boromir, who doesn't have the strength to resist it.

You'd had some hints at Boromir's temptation before that but really its this section that brings that plot to the fore and the climax at the end of the film. I think Jackson handles it very well having a subtle creepiness to her character communicating with Frodo telepathically when the fellowship arrives.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Glebe on December 27, 2018, 03:16:37 PM
What I don’t understand about Lord of the Rings is why the characters all have the same name.

"You can talk!" Tolkien replies to C.S. Lewis.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: AsparagusTrevor on December 27, 2018, 03:47:55 PM
Replace the word best with boring and I agree.
George Boring?
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 27, 2018, 04:58:49 PM
You'd had some hints at Boromir's temptation before that but really its this section that brings that plot to the fore and the climax at the end of the film. I think Jackson handles it very well having a subtle creepiness to her character communicating with Frodo telepathically when the fellowship arrives.

Straight out of the book of course. When Jackson sticks to Tolkien it works very well.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on December 27, 2018, 05:04:59 PM
Straight out of the book of course. When Jackson sticks to Tolkien it works very well.

Been awhile since I read it but I don't remember that telepathy with Frodo in the book, she is tempted but the whole section doesn't play up the strangeness and creepiness as much as the film in my memory, then again you also have much longer to build that atmosphere up on the river journey south in the book.

I do actually think theres plenty in the films that's Jackson and co's invention that works very well.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 27, 2018, 05:22:42 PM
She holds the eye of every member of the group when they first meet, and somehow communicates silently with them. Afterwards they make a big deal about not particularly wanting to discus the experience.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Endicott on December 27, 2018, 05:34:23 PM
I do actually think theres plenty in the films that's Jackson and co's invention that works very well.

I agree with you actually. The bits in the first film with Arwen work very well, and the telepathic control of Theoden by Saruman is quite exquisite. A complete invention of Jackson's which is very effective.

There are some things done with Aragorn's character in order to give him an arc, which is IMO simply not required. Or allude to his actual arc if you must, which really took place before the time of the film, but don't make one up. Similarly, Faramir is reduced to a pale imitation of the character in the book. It's horrible to watch. I don't like what he did with Denethor either.

What else? Sending Sam back from the climb into Mordor. I hate that.

But yes, there is an awful lot of great stuff in the films. And I also agree with you that the CGI doesn't get overblown until The Hobbit (well until King Kong I suppose). In this trilogy I think it's very well used.

Crumbs. I might even have to get the S.E.s out and watch again, I've certainly talked my
self down a bit.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shit Good Nose on December 27, 2018, 06:06:19 PM
Whatever anyone thinks, if nothing else Jackson and co earnt infinite karma for completely doing away with Tom Bombadil (acknowledge they weren't the only ones to pretend he doesn't exist), quite possibly one of THE worst literary characters ever created.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: mjwilson on December 27, 2018, 06:18:51 PM
Her, Gandalf, Elrond and up until the start of Fellowship, Saruman were effectively guardians of Middle Earth. She loses a great deal of her power before the film starts (as evidenced in The Hobbit 3)

Hey, you're not tricking us into watching Hobbit 3.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Twit 2 on December 27, 2018, 06:21:26 PM
Whatever anyone thinks, if nothing else Jackson and co earnt infinite karma for completely doing away with Tom Bombadil (acknowledge they weren't the only ones to pretend he doesn't exist), quite possibly one of THE worst literary characters ever created.

A cross between Ned Flanders and Brian Blessed.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: kalowski on December 27, 2018, 06:25:25 PM
Christ, Spielberg made at least three films better than LotR. I've not even considered Scorsese, Ford, Leone or Goddard.

So, no.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on December 27, 2018, 08:15:19 PM
BTTF pisses all over them, and Bill and Ted.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on December 27, 2018, 08:36:50 PM
Hey, you're not tricking us into watching Hobbit 3.

It is part of one of the few scenes in the Hobbit 3 actually worth watching (possibly also as 4 of the 5 best actors are in it)

Pt 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhzzfXQmv9w
Pt 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eUD2-e0KK8

Anyway, this shows Galadriel becoming permanently diminished and corrupted in the attempt to fend off Sauron, which feeds nicely into her part in the Fellowship of the Ring where she is tempted to recover her power by seizing the ring.

There is also a sense in the Fellowship of the Ring that Lorien has turned into a cage or at least an open prison and she is partly tormented by having the gift of foresight and the will to intervene but not enough power to do much about it. In the end the subtle touches she adds - for instance coming to Sam & Frodo's aid vs Shelob do make a difference, but at least the shitty Hobbit 3 shows the enormous sacrifice she made before then.

Quite an interesting character, I think. Doesn't fall into many tropes, either film-wise or book-wise.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 27, 2018, 08:53:29 PM
BTTF pisses all over them, and Bill and Ted.

Bill and Ted isn’t a trilogy but it sure does piss all over The Lord of the Rings.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Sebastian Cobb on December 27, 2018, 09:11:54 PM
Bill and Ted isn’t a trilogy but it sure does piss all over The Lord of the Rings.
Well quite, the original post or title didn't specify trilogies. I know which I'd rather see on a Sunday afternoon.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: All Surrogate on December 27, 2018, 10:22:41 PM
I see you. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlqqGKZ3Uac&feature=youtu.be&t=69)
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: The Boston Crab on December 27, 2018, 11:05:50 PM
RUN YOU CUNTS!
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on December 28, 2018, 09:32:22 AM
I see you. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlqqGKZ3Uac&feature=youtu.be&t=69)

See, to me that would be a horrible experience and I wouldn’t much enjoy putting that ring on.  Quite why everyone in the films is craving it is anyone’s guess.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on December 28, 2018, 12:07:36 PM
I agree with you actually. The bits in the first film with Arwen work very well, and the telepathic control of Theoden by Saruman is quite exquisite. A complete invention of Jackson's which is very effective.

There are some things done with Aragorn's character in order to give him an arc, which is IMO simply not required. Or allude to his actual arc if you must, which really took place before the time of the film, but don't make one up. Similarly, Faramir is reduced to a pale imitation of the character in the book. It's horrible to watch. I don't like what he did with Denethor either.

What else? Sending Sam back from the climb into Mordor. I hate that.

But yes, there is an awful lot of great stuff in the films. And I also agree with you that the CGI doesn't get overblown until The Hobbit (well until King Kong I suppose). In this trilogy I think it's very well used.

Crumbs. I might even have to get the S.E.s out and watch again, I've certainly talked my
self down a bit.

I think one of the inevitable shifts from book to screen though is that you lose the divide between the Hobbits who Tolkien gives us an inner window on and the other characters which he doesn't. That tends to result in the other characters having to be humanised quite a bit more so you get situations like Aragorn having a much more obvious arc. Its the same with Faramir really, rather than the character already be noble we see him being ennobled during the story.

I felt the biggest disappointment of Jacksons films was actually Denethor but still I think that's understandable simply in terms of runtime, to establish him in the way the book does would have taken quite awhile in a film that was already pushing 4 hours and having to cut out a lot of scenes anyway.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: monolith on January 01, 2019, 08:52:02 PM
Just watched Fellowship and it was even better than I remembered, glad I wasn't just a pissed idiot kid for liking it first time round.

I can't see any way that the Amazon series will improve or even get close to the films. Can only speak for the first one so far but I'll be surprised if a more perfect fantasy film is ever released.

Well, maybe not quite perfect. "They took the little ones" was bullshit.

Hobbits. Just say hobbits.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on January 02, 2019, 08:09:53 AM
The Amazon series is going to be prequels rather than remaking Lord of the Rings I believe, sadly more in the "young Aragorn" mold from the sound of it rather than the wars of the rings in the second age.

You could argue I spose there would be room for a long series remake to be quite different to Jacksons films given how much is left out or shifted and I think the Hobbit films ended up having a lot of that kind of material in, Mirkwood ends up more like the Old Forrest, Radagast has a lot of Bombadil in him, etc.

Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shaky on January 02, 2019, 12:44:12 PM
Fellowship is a brilliant film but Ralph "Sexy Animals" Bakshi's 1970's rotoscoped version - while admittedly a bit wobbly overall- captures the feel of the book(s) more successfully, I think. It has a really vital, rustic charm which the mega-budget trilogy only betrays as it goes on.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: magval on January 02, 2019, 01:05:27 PM
What about Bo Hansson's prog album, who likes that?
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: greenman on January 02, 2019, 03:18:57 PM
Fellowship is a brilliant film but Ralph "Sexy Animals" Bakshi's 1970's rotoscoped version - while admittedly a bit wobbly overall- captures the feel of the book(s) more successfully, I think. It has a really vital, rustic charm which the mega-budget trilogy only betrays as it goes on.

Bakshi's film is I'd say more of a Tolkiens greatest hits than a coherent story, some of the design work is very questionable but you could argue it does have more of the high fantasy detachment to it relative to Jacksons film were characters like Aragorn, Elrond, Théoden, etc are more humanised.

I always felt by far the best thing in that film was the Nazgul, maybe a little silly at points but arguably more otherworldly than Jacksons versions. Would have liked to see a bit more of the "ring world" in the latters film, the description of Frodo dreaming of being back in Bag End with the Nazgul standing over the hedge especially was I always felt a very effective image.

You could argue perhaps that the ideal format Jacksons films might not have been a trilogy but a quadology with Fellowship spilt in half along the lines of the book. I think Two Towers and Return of the King merging the two narratives probably needed to happen but Fellowship as good as it is does have to drop quite a lot of detail.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Sin Agog on January 02, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
I always thought it was an odd choice in Bakshi's version replacing Samwise with a sex-mad drug fiend hippie cat.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: thraxx on January 02, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
I always thought it was an odd choice in Bakshi's version replacing Samwise with a sex-mad drug fiend hippie cat.

A few years ago I go to know the actor who voiced Samwise in this version.  Don't know about drugs and sex, but he certainly is a mad fiend hippie cat.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Glebe on January 03, 2019, 02:50:28 PM
I think one of the inevitable shifts from book to screen though is that you lose the divide between the Hobbits who Tolkien gives us an inner window on and the other characters which he doesn't.

That's a really good point, actually. Frodo and co. do seem more like young men than 'hobbity' hobbits.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Chollis on January 03, 2019, 04:09:45 PM
Not sure about the trilogy, last film was a bit iffy when I watched it as a grown-up, but yes, Fellowship is the greatest film ever made
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Shoulders?-Stomach! on January 03, 2019, 04:29:52 PM
Bill and Ted isn’t a trilogy but it sure does piss all over The Lord of the Rings.

Yes when I look at my options in dungeons and dragons based Fantasy Adventure there is no doubt a film about two school kids doing their history homework in a time machine fulfils the criteria perfectly.
Title: Re: Are the Lord of the Rings films the best films ever made?
Post by: Replies From View on January 03, 2019, 04:40:39 PM
Yes when I look at my options in dungeons and dragons based Fantasy Adventure there is no doubt a film about two school kids doing their history homework in a time machine fulfils the criteria perfectly.

I have never heard of a game like that where the playing pieces are somehow scenes from films.