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Frasier 2: Tossed Plonkers and Scrambled Horses

Started by JamesTC, January 13, 2023, 07:26:21 PM

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Gurke and Hare

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on November 01, 2023, 06:05:57 PMFamously, the last line of "Cheers" was "sorry, we're closed", so I'm not sure why it was even discussed. Do you hang out with the barflies you were friends with 30 years ago?

I think if you'd moved back somewhere after 30 years you'd at least look in at your old local wouldn't you?

The Culture Bunker

Quote from: gilbertharding on November 01, 2023, 05:20:26 PMTo be clear, my assertion that it had closed down was supposed to be about the in universe Cheers bar. The real life bar still seems to be there*, and (apparently) now the interior has a sort of replica of the set.


* the website for the bar is still there, but various other sources suggest the pandemic killed it...
I walked past the bar back in 2016 but didn't go in, because I'd heard it was a bit of a tourist trap and looked nothing like it does in the TV show. There was another 'Cheers' bar across the city that was supposed to be more of a replica of the interior - I poked my head in and concluded that whoever wrote the article that said that was a lying get.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Gurke and Hare on November 01, 2023, 06:06:17 PMThey could film it here if the one in Boston has closed.

Sadly not:



Bet it was fucking Londis selling cheap cans of Fosters that did them in.

stonkers

Sadly Cheers of Greenock also fell to the pandemic.


Gurke and Hare

Quote from: stonkers on November 01, 2023, 08:15:09 PMSadly Cheers of Greenock also fell to the pandemic.



Where everybody knows your name, and where you fucking live pal.

Mobbd

As a kid I found the Cheers theme tune unbearably sad. Like, it would make me want to cry.

When the actual show started I'd remember it was a funny one and everything was going to be fine.

Quote from: Mobbd on November 01, 2023, 09:24:44 PMAs a kid I found the Cheers theme tune unbearably sad. Like, it would make me want to cry.

When the actual show started I'd remember it was a funny one and everything was going to be fine.

The closing theme was properly melancholic. Proper "right, laughter's over, you've stayed up past your normal bedtime because it's a Friday, now fuck off to bed" feelings every time I hear it.

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on November 01, 2023, 07:08:08 PMSadly not:



Bet it was fucking Londis selling cheap cans of Fosters that did them in.

Maybe they could film it in the petrol station Londis? Sam serving customers from behind a sheet of plexiglass, Norm and Cliff supping on machine Costas, Carla moaning because she's got to unclog the F'real machine because Woody keeps trying to make a smoothie/milkshake mix, the ghost of Coach living in a Rollover hotdog. It practically writes itself.

gilbertharding

Quote from: Gurke and Hare on November 01, 2023, 06:07:07 PMI think if you'd moved back somewhere after 30 years you'd at least look in at your old local wouldn't you?

You absolutely would. But it would be 50/50 whether the name had changed, and at least 90% that no-one you knew would be there.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Huxleys Babkins on November 02, 2023, 09:17:54 AMMaybe they could film it in the petrol station Londis? Sam serving customers from behind a sheet of plexiglass, Norm and Cliff supping on machine Costas, Carla moaning because she's got to unclog the F'real machine because Woody keeps trying to make a smoothie/milkshake mix, the ghost of Coach living in a Rollover hotdog. It practically writes itself.

I only made it to the ten minute point with the first episode of the new Frasier (nothing particularly wrong with it, Lyndhurst seemed good, but I couldn't stand the new Freddie) but I'd absolutely watch the version of the show you created above.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: Mobbd on November 01, 2023, 09:24:44 PMAs a kid I found the Cheers theme tune unbearably sad. Like, it would make me want to cry.

When the actual show started I'd remember it was a funny one and everything was going to be fine.

I only heard the full version of the song recently, thank fuck they only used a small portion for the theme song

QuoteAll those nights when you've got no lights
The check is in the mail
And your little angel
Hung the cat up by it's tail
And your third fiance didn't show

Roll out of bed, Mr. Coffee's dead
The morning's looking bright (the morning's looking bright)
And your shrink ran off to Europe
And didn't even write
And your husband wants to be a girl
Be glad there's one place in the world


BritishHobo

I did always like the bit in the London episode of Friends where Joey is homesick and Cheers comes on the TV with its sad little theme tune evoking a lovely welcoming place back home.

beanheadmcginty

Always wanted to go to a fancy dress party as the "WE WIN" bloke from the opening titles of Cheers.

Proactive

I could come with you as matey in the bowler hat.

Gurke and Hare

Quote from: Proactive on November 03, 2023, 01:26:08 PMI could come with you as matey in the bowler hat.

Everyone would think you were Stan Laurel.

Proactive

Quote from: Gurke and Hare on November 03, 2023, 01:58:34 PMEveryone would think you were Stan Laurel.
I'd go with an Oliver Hardy just in case. One custume for the plebs, one for the real headz.

neveragain

Erm... anyway, there was a new Frasier today, involving some brown-nosing at a fancy party. It was sort of getting there but that just made its not-quite-rightness all the more evident. None of the previously-discussed problems had gone away, and the non-Frasier plot was just bland as hell (including a geek character that The Big Bang Theory would baulk at.)

The main issue to strike me today is the episodes seem so slow, and that's because there aren't enough jokes. There's a babble of zingy back and forths but it's an illusion, there are not enough actual, crafted jokes.

Rolf Lundgren

Much better than it has any right to be, I've been pleasantly surprised at how well executed and thought through this has been. Frasier heading back to Harvard and reconnecting with Freddy is a solid premise. I liked seeing Frasier hamming it up on his TV show which is exactly what he would do without the influence of Niles or Martin to rein him in. Enjoying all the little nods to the past while building with a brand new set of characters. Grammer's been fantastic and the scenes with Nicholas Lyndhurst are a highlight.

The only misstep is Freddy as they've cast an actor with little comic sensibility. I also don't quite buy that Frasier and Lilith's son would grow up to be a firefighting, baseball loving jock but will see if that gets explored further. The nicest thing I can say about him is that I'm surprised the actor is actually British as his American accent is very good.

neveragain

Quote from: Rolf Lundgren on November 03, 2023, 10:55:56 PMThe nicest thing I can say about him is that I'm surprised the actor is actually British as his American accent is very good.

It's a great accent. I'm not too fond of his performance either, the character hasn't really come across as likable.

dirkgonnadirk

I thought ep 5 was really weak. Eps 1-4 I have been very pleasantly surprised with, but on this ep the Frasier subplot has been done before but better, and the non-Frasier subplot was horrible.

mippy


BritishHobo

Quote from: Rolf Lundgren on November 03, 2023, 10:55:56 PMThe only misstep is Freddy as they've cast an actor with little comic sensibility. I also don't quite buy that Frasier and Lilith's son would grow up to be a firefighting, baseball loving jock but will see if that gets explored further. The nicest thing I can say about him is that I'm surprised the actor is actually British as his American accent is very good.

I hoped this characterisation of him meant there would be a lot of scope for stuff with Freddie opening up about how fucking weird and repressive it was growing up with Lilith and Frasier as his parents. The original Frasier was so full-on, immediately, about the lingering trauma and anger everybody held towards each other for their coldness of their relationships. John Mahoney was so good in particular in taking the comedy over the line into a real pain and frustration about this, about the way Frasier and Niles clearly looked down upon him and his interests - and so far it feels like they're not taking the opportunity to lean into that to the same emotional level.

Granted I'm a couple of episodes behind, so they may well have attempted that in the ones I've not seen yet.

Rolf Lundgren

Quote from: BritishHobo on November 04, 2023, 02:11:45 PMI hoped this characterisation of him meant there would be a lot of scope for stuff with Freddie opening up about how fucking weird and repressive it was growing up with Lilith and Frasier as his parents.

There is a lot to explore there and I'm looking forward to Lilith's appearance which will hopefully shed more light on this. Original Frasier took the time to explain how Frasier and Niles took after both their parents while Freddy here seems to be dropped in from another show. I suppose him reading Little Women is a nod to the fact he may have more pursuits in common with his dad then he likes to admit.


QuoteThe original Frasier was so full-on, immediately, about the lingering trauma and anger everybody held towards each other for their coldness of their relationships. John Mahoney was so good in particular in taking the comedy over the line into a real pain and frustration about this, about the way Frasier and Niles clearly looked down upon him and his interests - and so far it feels like they're not taking the opportunity to lean into that to the same emotional level.

Great point. Freddy getting the air hockey table did feel like a retread of Martin's chair but lacked the same emotional value. Frasier and Niles' "Crane Shame" was a great motif, even lasting right through to the latter series. Would be nice to see that continued with Freddy in a way that holds the same weight.

Famous Mortimer

Without wanting to give it too much praise, I feel like the difference in tone is to do with the main character. Frasier was the son in the original series and the father in this one, so it's going to be coming from a different place. I like that it's not a huge emotionally crippling thing with Frasier and Freddy. They were / are different people and both seem okay with it.

Of course, "Frasier" (Seattle version) is one of the greatest sitcoms ever, and this isn't, probably.

neveragain

This newest episode (Blind Date) is probably the closest the new series has come to capturing the feel of Classic Fras. You've got a confined farcical situation for the brunt of the episode with little input from regular supporting characters other than Freddy. Lots of seemingly funny lines. A pleasant flow. And still... I just didn't click with it.

It feels empty. So many wrong decisions.

I feel sad for Frasier. For the character but not in the way you normally feel sorry for a character. I feel sad that he should be reduced to this.

mr. logic

All he had to do was not let on at all that he was aware that the first woman preferred him to Freddy, go on the date with the second one, and have that in his pocket if things didn't click. Given that the date meant for him was presented as perfect I'm not really sure what the problem was supposed to be. The plot was missing a few beats. I also couldn't understand Freddy when he arrived back at the flat and met the first woman, it was unclear if he thought she was his or his dad's date.

It's a bit crap this isn't it?

Rolf Lundgren

Did feel like this was the farce episode they felt obliged to do but really undersold it. The misunderstanding with Freddy and Frasier missing each other in the kitchen was very weak and there generally weren't enough layers to what was almost a good idea.


Quote from: mr. logic on November 10, 2023, 10:43:42 PMAll he had to do was not let on at all that he was aware that the first woman preferred him to Freddy, go on the date with the second one, and have that in his pocket if things didn't click. Given that the date meant for him was presented as perfect I'm not really sure what the problem was supposed to be.

I think it was just reiterating that Frasier is his own worst enemy with his love life. Echoes of when he met Claire who was perfect for him but was obsessed with the troublesome Lana. He's had many other occasions where's he managed to stuff things up with a woman through his own idiocy so it shows that he hasn't changed. The idea that Freddy may have picked up being terrible in relationships from his parents is an interesting concept though.

Famous Mortimer

There are a couple of moments in these recent episodes where it feels like no-one bothered paying attention. Like, the most recent one I watched, where Frasier decides he wants to be a proper professor, rather than just an adjunct. Leaving aside it's as much a job description as a title (a lot of the heavy lifting would have to be done by the department, in terms of needing an open position to hire him into), just a few weeks previously we saw him accepted into "the Founders Society"; seems unlikely this wouldn't grease all the wheels that needed greasing.

He gets stung by a bee on his way to the final meeting with the review board, and is remarkably allergic. Given what his face looks like when he finally turns up, even the biggest anti-alcohol person couldn't possibly believe that was the result of booze. It doesn't feel like good farce (which classic Frasier was, a lot of the time).

Re: the date episode mentioned above, perhaps the oddest thing was June Diane Raphael looking far too young for Frasier, but also too old (in mainstream sitcom terms) for Freddy - she's 8 years older than Jack Cutmore-Scott and 25 years younger than Grammer. Obviously, date who you want, etc., but it's not often done in shows like this.

neveragain

Quote from: Famous Mortimer on December 05, 2023, 08:08:55 PMHe gets stung by a bee on his way to the final meeting with the review board, and is remarkably allergic.

When was that? I've been getting through the episodes (they're steadily improving but still nowhere near) and have no memory of this.

Agree with your observation about the date.

Famous Mortimer

Quote from: neveragain on December 05, 2023, 08:16:27 PMWhen was that? I've been getting through the episodes (they're steadily improving but still nowhere near) and have no memory of this.

Agree with your observation about the date.
Episode 8, "The B Story". Episode 9 is out now, episode 10 (the final one) is in a couple of days.