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May 23, 2024, 11:24:34 AM

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White Woman's Instagram

Started by Barry Admin, May 30, 2023, 11:31:51 PM

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Noodle Lizard

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on June 08, 2023, 03:42:47 PMI haven't, which is weird, as I normally love musical comedy yet somehow it passed me by.

I'd really recommend you do. It's the nature of the internet for individual bits (or songs, in this case) to end up being seen on their own, I don't know how I would've felt about it if I'd first seen it that way.

If you just want a palate cleanser, though, this is from Burnham's previous special: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLMgbV3uaz8

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Tiggles on June 08, 2023, 04:20:46 PM@Small Man Big Horse you should definitely have a look at it (and if you like it, The Outtakes that he edited and threw onto his YouTube channel a year later).

I like WWI and I enjoy the discourse around it - and I know that a lot of white women felt seen by it, in a good way (if also a bit of a called-out way). But in the context of the special as a whole, it helps to build an incredible experience. It's a lot more than a collection of jaunty piss-take songs.

Quote from: Noodle Lizard on June 08, 2023, 04:40:03 PMI'd really recommend you do. It's the nature of the internet for individual bits (or songs, in this case) to end up being seen on their own, I don't know how I would've felt about it if I'd first seen it that way.

If you just want a palate cleanser, though, this is from Burnham's previous special: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLMgbV3uaz8

Both of you make a very good point and it's something I'll definitely do. And I have seen Make Happy and rated it 8/10 on imdb, which makes my not having seen this more recent special all the odder.

Tiggles

There's definitely a sense of continuity with Make Happy as well - worth watching the last 15 mins or so of that first to remind you before you go in. Hope you like it.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Tiggles on June 08, 2023, 04:55:23 PMThere's definitely a sense of continuity with Make Happy as well - worth watching the last 15 mins or so of that first to remind you before you go in. Hope you like it.

Cool, and thank you, I do appreciate the advice because I really do like Burnham, and I definitely don't want to derail the thread any further than I have done because it's been really interesting to see the responses to it even if it didn't initially work for me.

beanheadmcginty

Every time I see this thread title I think it says White Wogan's Instagram

Jerzy Bondov

Just realised that the Vine guy who sings 'is there anything better than pussy? Yes, a really good book' isn't just some guy who looks like Bo Burnham, it is Bo Burnham

Kelvin

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on June 08, 2023, 03:05:03 PMOkay, so I'm going to tread super carefully here, and I could be very, very wrong about it...

It seems to me to be a quite accurate observation of how some white women use social media, and there's an awful lot going on here, Bo's not just mocking them, he's sympathetic, he's careful to show that tragedy is a confusing mess and how people deal with it may sometimes be attention seeking but at others just a way to deal with how they're feeling.

But... Given how women have been treated throughout mankind's entire history, and the misery, torture and torment they've suffered, is there any reason for this? Could he not have chosen another target? A male target which deserves to be mocked or satirised or even given the same kind of treatment? Even if it's meant to help us examine how we ourselves respond to social media, if it's going to upset female social media users, did he really need to construct this creation, when he could have written about a far more deserving subject?

Gah, I know everyone loves it so I'm almost definitely wrong, and I hope this post is seen in that spirit, that it's something I'm possibly misunderstanding, and if anyone could help me on this front I'd really appreciate it.

I actually feel the same way about White Woman's Instagram - and I've watched it (multiple times) in context. I think Inside is a masterpiece, the best comedy "thing" I've watched in a decade. But I still can't help feeling slightly uncomfortable about a man basing a song at least superficially around a woman's use of social media.

Yes, it works on other levels. Yes, it's sympathetic towards the character. Yes, it's about wider themes, not specific to women. Nonetheless, it is a song called, and with a repeated refrain of "White woman's Instagram" in which Burnham mockingly poses as the character. I can't pretend I don't find that slightly misjudged in the wider social context, regardless of how well observed the song, video and subtext may be.     

Tiggles

Yeah I'm conflicted, because it feels like a punch down in theory, but in practice, as a white woman with an Instagram, I recognised myself and laughed.

Where does it end up on the chart? https://imgur.com/a/JpLqvKA


Quote from: Tiggles on June 13, 2023, 10:50:36 PMYeah I'm conflicted, because it feels like a punch down in theory, but in practice, as a white woman with an Instagram, I recognised myself and laughed.

Where does it end up on the chart? https://imgur.com/a/JpLqvKA



STOP GIGGLING AT THE BACK, DAVIDSON!

studpuppet

Quote from: Kelvin on June 13, 2023, 10:21:09 PMI actually feel the same way about White Woman's Instagram - and I've watched it (multiple times) in context. I think Inside is a masterpiece, the best comedy "thing" I've watched in a decade. But I still can't help feeling slightly uncomfortable about a man basing a song at least superficially around a woman's use of social media. 

I also felt like this, but I have the luxury of teenage daughters (one straight, one queer) to run all this sort of stuff past. The prevailing view of Bo Burnham is that he's the bastard who broke up Phoebe Bridgers and Paul Mescal, so everything he's ever done should be viewed through that prism.


Quote from: beanheadmcginty on June 09, 2023, 12:33:42 PMEvery time I see this thread title I think it says White Wogan's Instagram

Serafinowicz could do this if you threw some money at him.

MoreauVasz

Quote from: Jerzy Bondov on June 09, 2023, 01:44:12 PMJust realised that the Vine guy who sings 'is there anything better than pussy? Yes, a really good book' isn't just some guy who looks like Bo Burnham, it is Bo Burnham

Yikes... Bit of a 'me too' klaxon there.

Oh no no no... I have no time for sex, I am far too busy amplifying women's voices.  What's that? Why are all your friends' numbers in my phone? Why do they appear to be marked out of ten? No no no... You must be wrong, I just keep track of the day in October when I met them! What do you mean we met in March? I think you're very much confused there... You've been stressed from work. Why am I in your house? Don't you remember? You gave me your keys. Oh I wouldn't worry about the stuff on your pot plants, I just gave them a feed...

Pimhole

Well just to counter a few points made recently, I think it is a finely targeted piece at a particular type of instagrammer. Performative wokeness without doing the reading or putting any effort into any deeper kind of understanding ("some random quote from Lord of the Rings/Incorrectly attributed to Martin Luther King"); cultural appropriation ("a dreamcatcher bought from Urban Outfitters"/Oprah is my spirit animal); a particularly naff and shallow version of feminism which relies on white privilege, ignores intersectional inequalities, again does not bother to do the reading (My favorite position? CEO) and ultimately ends up serving the patriarchy in a steadfastly trad role ("and a ring on her finger").

I would really recommend the video I posted on page 1 from F. D. Signifier, particularly the five or so minutes starting at around the 20.30 mark for a really clear insight into how massively unhelpful all of the above is. I think it makes her a deserving target.

I get that there is a thing where men put "white" in front of "women" as a way of getting away with misogyny (see also "trans"), but I am 100% certain this is not that.

As for Bo's physical impersonation of the White Woman, again this is one of my favourite parts because it really nails that "a little girl - but SEXY" thing some women in their 20s (and even into their 30s) do give off, which makes me want to vom. Again, I think it is quite specifically targeted so... does that mean it isn't misogynist? I certainly don't read it that way.


Quote from: studpuppet on June 14, 2023, 10:04:44 AMI also felt like this, but I have the luxury of teenage daughters (one straight, one queer) to run all this sort of stuff past. The prevailing view of Bo Burnham is that he's the bastard who broke up Phoebe Bridgers and Paul Mescal, so everything he's ever done should be viewed through that prism.

Phoebe Bridgers, being a woman, has no agency of course. :P I jest. I don't know who the other guy is, so impossible to tell if this is a good thing or a bad thing or maybe just a thing.

Noodle Lizard

Mild trivia: I only just learned that the house (or guesthouse of which) Inside was filmed in is the Nightmare on Elm Street House.

Spoiler alert
This is a fun fact for me because an old friend of mine's family used to live in that house, and they were in the process of selling it (to Burnham's partner, Lorene Scafaria) when I moved out here and reconnected with him. I'm surprised I didn't recognise it, but it's also not the kind of house you'd expect someone as famous as Bo Burnham to live in.
[close]

DJ Bob Hoskins

Decided to dip back into some of Inside for the first time since the last lockdown ended.

What a work of art. Every time I catch myself chortling along with the arch cynicism he'll throw an emotional sucker punch and I'm left dazed, wondering how he managed to blindside me again.

I put on All Eyes on Me earlier and hairs started standing on end in places where I didn't even know I had hair. By the time he got to the middle eight I was an emotional wreck.

Bravo, Bo. Bravo.

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on June 08, 2023, 03:05:03 PMOkay, so I'm going to tread super carefully here, and I could be very, very wrong about it...

But... Given how women have been treated throughout mankind's entire history, and the misery, torture and torment they've suffered, is there any reason for this? Could he not have chosen another target? A male target which deserves to be mocked or satirised or even given the same kind of treatment? Even if it's meant to help us examine how we ourselves respond to social media, if it's going to upset female social media users, did he really need to construct this creation, when he could have written about a far more deserving subject?

Gah, I know everyone loves it so I'm almost definitely wrong, and I hope this post is seen in that spirit, that it's something I'm possibly misunderstanding, and if anyone could help me on this front I'd really appreciate it.

Well maybe I've got this wrong, but I felt that it was aimed at a particular affluent and privileged section of female society - maybe that's a stereotype, but I'd imagine it would be hard to have the time and money to produce that kind of carefully curated stuff on a low wage or with little time.  Also, what he's getting at is the kind of generic, derivative cutesy posting that means chuff-all.  If someone bared their soul on social media and got mocked, that would be unpalatable, but someone posting the same shizzle as a thousand other people have?

Mister Six

Quote from: Barry Admin on May 31, 2023, 10:02:56 PMEighth Grade starting now!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcthree

Had no idea who Bo Burnham was but I did see Eighth Grade when it first came to home streaming and thought it was great - a very thoughtful and touching story, and deeply empathetic. So he seems like a GBOL.

Gonna go back to that black bloke's analysis of White Woman's Instagram later, but it seemed very interesting. I was blown away by Burnham's rap that he recorded at 15, though.

Yeah, it was a bit edgelordy, but the line "You'll bleed for so long you'll get monthly ellipses" is kind of incredible on its own terms and even more so coming from a teenager, and I thought the Hide the Pain Harold meme laid on top of that felt a bit... I dunno, performative? Like the host had to communicate that he knows THIS IS A BAD THING even though it's really kind of brilliant.

Dr Rock

Quote from: Mister Six on July 04, 2023, 06:39:27 PMHad no idea who Bo Burnham was but I did see Eighth Grade when it first came to home streaming and thought it was great - a very thoughtful and touching story, and deeply empathetic. So he seems like a GBOL.

Gonna go back to that black bloke's analysis of White Woman's Instagram later, but it seemed very interesting. I was blown away by Burnham's rap that he recorded at 15, though.

Yeah, it was a bit edgelordy, but the line "You'll bleed for so long you'll get monthly ellipses" is kind of incredible on its own terms and even more so coming from a teenager, and I thought the Hide the Pain Harold meme laid on top of that felt a bit... I dunno, performative? Like the host had to communicate that he knows THIS IS A BAD THING even though it's really kind of brilliant.

You've got so much excellent stuff to discover!

Pimhole

Quote from: Mister Six on July 04, 2023, 06:39:27 PMGonna go back to that black bloke's analysis of White Woman's Instagram later, but it seemed very interesting. I was blown away by Burnham's rap that he recorded at 15, though.

Yeah, it was a bit edgelordy, but the line "You'll bleed for so long you'll get monthly ellipses" is kind of incredible on its own terms and even more so coming from a teenager, and I thought the Hide the Pain Harold meme laid on top of that felt a bit... I dunno, performative? Like the host had to communicate that he knows THIS IS A BAD THING even though it's really kind of brilliant.

To be fair, in Inside Burnham is watching that very rap with an expression of grim self-loathing, right before Problematic kicks in. That's probably why FD sought it out and included it. I find him throughout to be very generous toward Burnham, says "give him a break, he was 15". The whole thing is very even-handed and while I'm not sure I agree 100% with all of it, he has a very thoughtful and interesting perspective. His assertion that there has been no white pop culture (untouched by black culture) for about 20 years is so compelling.

He also has a good vids on The Manosphere and Dave Chapelle if you like the Inside one.

Tiggles

Quote from: Mister Six on July 04, 2023, 06:39:27 PMHad no idea who Bo Burnham was but I did see Eighth Grade when it first came to home streaming and thought it was great - a very thoughtful and touching story, and deeply empathetic. So he seems like a GBOL.

Gonna go back to that black bloke's analysis of White Woman's Instagram later, but it seemed very interesting. I was blown away by Burnham's rap that he recorded at 15, though.

Yeah, it was a bit edgelordy, but the line "You'll bleed for so long you'll get monthly ellipses" is kind of incredible on its own terms and even more so coming from a teenager, and I thought the Hide the Pain Harold meme laid on top of that felt a bit... I dunno, performative? Like the host had to communicate that he knows THIS IS A BAD THING even though it's really kind of brilliant.

If you decide to go down the Bo Burnham rabbit hole in terms of You Tube analysis, I really enjoyed this from the Comedy Without Errors channel: https://youtu.be/iHat1OlMPeY

Mister Six

Cheers, @Tiggles. I'll watch the material first, but come back to that video later.

Quote from: Pimhole on July 04, 2023, 10:54:53 PMTo be fair, in Inside Burnham is watching that very rap with an expression of grim self-loathing, right before Problematic kicks in. That's probably why FD sought it out and included it. I find him throughout to be very generous toward Burnham, says "give him a break, he was 15". The whole thing is very even-handed and while I'm not sure I agree 100% with all of it, he has a very thoughtful and interesting perspective. His assertion that there has been no white pop culture (untouched by black culture) for about 20 years is so compelling.

He also has a good vids on The Manosphere and Dave Chapelle if you like the Inside one.

Yeah, I watched a bit more of it but had to break off, and he was being very even-handed. I just rankle a bit at the attitude that something is without merit and can be dismissed if it's (lowercase P) "problematic". Not that I think the guy in the video thinks that, but I get the feeling that he assumed his audience did, and he was trying to communicate his disapproval in a very unsubtle way. Like when Lindsay Ellis would out a quote from some arsehole, then break into derisive faux-laughter at the end, as though we can't tell from the entire context of her video that she disapproves of it.

ProvanFan

Action Replay cartridge for the Saturn, for when I go fetch the actual console off my parents and obtain all those import games I missed in the 90s .

madhair60


Janie Jones

Notwithstanding the thoughtful and interesting posts people have made on this thread, the White Women's Instagram video is two years old, it has been on the front page of CaB for weeks and the video has been seen by some as problematic. Great comedy discussion doesn't have to be about material that is brand new of course, it just feels to me like this is a bit dated and misogynistic and doesn't do CaB justice by staying on the front page labelled 'really fucking brilliant'.

Dr Rock

I just watched Inside again for the tenth time or whatever - really fucking brilliant. And Bo looks too gorgeous! Cheer up sexy dude.

glork

this song was just full of jokes i've already heard made by other people many times over. no new or interesting observations. (on top of the fact that it's irritating to hear a man singing about 'white women' as a group)

dissolute ocelot

I don't see how middle-class first-world white women are so victimised a group that men aren't allowed to make fun of them. If you take that attitude then it means huge chunks of Wilde, Shaw, Orton, and many other authors are off the table (stage).

I don't think WWI is exactly comic genius, but it's certainly a very well observed and well put together piece, packed with nice details.

glork

#86
i think poking fun is fine and good if he had something new to say but it was the same old stereotypical stuff so it felt tiresome

it was basically a compiled list of things i've heard so many times before said by other people already.  unique/original observations would have made it funnier. it reminded me of that old 'stuff white people like' website from years ago.

i guess those jokes about avocados and lattes and live laugh love decor were new to everyone else. i will say i think the funniest part were the imitated 'photos' but they seemed more like something celebs would post

Oosp

If it please the good people of CaB, I'm reposting my own comments on this from way back on Page 1 because a) there is literally no way for anyone to view pages other than the current one and b) I can't be arsed typing them all again. There are plenty more interesting posts way back on Page 1, not that anyone will ever see them.

Quote from: Oosp on May 31, 2023, 02:37:01 AMObviously it's fucking brilliant.

My take: I see it as a rejection of lazy misogyny, the point being that this avalanche of (harmless if clueless) visual clichés serves to conceal the actual truth of the woman's life: a reality far more valuable than the meticulously-constructed face she is at pains to present to the world, a lived experience which is actually relatable and has the potential to generate a real connection. It's easy for a stranger to dismiss and poke fun; the question is whether one is prepared to dig a little deeper, because there's humanity there. We can only smile for so long before the mask slips and the need to express something genuine proves overwhelming. Burnham hits all of these buttons in his lyrics, partly in an effort to draw the listener in and partly to sucker-punch them with the Big Reveal.

It's important that the subject is a white woman; the implication at the outset is that she is privileged and relatively oblivious. Elsewhere in Inside, Burnham directly addresses class, mental health, isolation, reckoning with one's Internet footprint, the toxifying effect of the online experience and the precarious nature of a public persona, so it's fair to say he knows exactly what he wants to say in this song. Moreover, the succession of images presented throughout is a microcosm of the flattened/collapsed experience of the Internet in general - the woman's Instagram is an overstuffed but heavily curated diorama that recalls the least upsetting aspects of Welcome to the Internet.

The song is also hilarious and one of the biggest bangers in years. It's a tour de force.

Quote from: Oosp on May 31, 2023, 08:31:41 AMI mean, further to what I said above, the woman in question most likely lost both her parents by the age of 17. That's awful. When she gets engaged (towards the end of the song), you realise (if you catch the details) that

a) neither of her parents will be there to walk her down the aisle
b) she's probably been talking to her dead parents in this way through social media for the past decade
c) Bo Burnham is a genius.

Just like the (generally polished, insubstantial and performative) Instagram page to which it refers, this song (ostensibly light, fluffy and playful) goes out of its way to bury the lede. Likewise, the more we engage with the song, the more we care about it. It's fundamentally about loss, coping mechanisms, personal prejudices, empathy and self-image.

Some final thoughts:
- the woman goes out of her way to put herself in a box
- the second gutpunch (that her dad is also dead) is followed immediately by the "goat's cheese salad" line; this emphasises the point that what's real and important is destined to be swept out of the way by ephemera, time and time again
- no matter how egregious the platform, it is a good thing that people can find a corner if the internet where they can feel safe to express themselves. Cf. the "not very long ago..." left-turn in Welcome to the Internet.

And this guy's supposed to be funny?!

glork

oh god can we all just ignore the fact i mentioned anything about gender. i know i brought it up but still