Lee and Herring rewatch

[Stinky Lomax]

I think they said in one of the earlier commentaries that 5 is the bad S1 episode, but this one was pretty rough. I don't think the Pestilence sketch worked at all, or the vampires. Rich's dad in a jar doesn't really gel either, as it suddenly renders Stew's teasing about how backwards Somerset is redundant and it's too abstract for the 'Pete ate Rich's dad' thing to mean anything. Also, more than the usual amount of lad humour.

I did like the pizza shop sketch, though, some of the studio stuff like the diets and the shrine were okay (I think the latter develops further in later episodes?), and there's always Quinlank.

[Shaxberd]

Hmm, a rather squalid episode, this one. As @Stinky Lomax noted, there's more of the laddishness and gross-out stuff than the usual amount, with a sour note of mild gay panic with regard to the final mention of one of the vampires getting in the box with Stew and a Pet Shop Boys/hamsters gag in the end credits. There's also some indulgence of petty grudges, opening the show with a gripe about a bad review in the newspaper and repeated mentions of Patrick Marber.

At least Kevin Eldon's always good.

Some other things of note:
- Annette Badland in the pizza sketch!
- Bussard Ramscoop reference!
- An early appearance of the Organ Gang in the 'gangs' series of infobursts, here described as a puppet show concept the lads are looking for someone to fund.

[Magnum Valentino]

Sorry for the delay all, went and saw The Crow instead of uploading these.

Commentary

Rushes for LAST week's episode (looks like I got confused)

Sleeve notes

Spoiler alert

Fist of Fun - Show 4 (No Studiotapes Found)

Recorded at BBC TVC (Studio 4), 21 April 1995

Show 4 broadcast BBC2, 2 May 1995

Sadly, no tapes from the session for Show 4 have been unearthed, depriving us of enjoying the return of both The Gimp from Pulp Fiction (still running loose in the studio after escaping from Richard's crate the previous week), and the "Thank You!" Bishops on VT auditioning 'Julie's boyfriend'. The rejected applicants for the latter included an enthusiastic comic book geek (Ben Moor, naturally), Ricky Grover being Ricky Grover, and an old man ("No! Old! Pervo!"). The successful entrant meanwhile is described in the original script as being 'A trendy, attractive young lad in some kind of the Roadrunner cartoon longsleeved T shirt... somewhat like Stew would like to imagine he was, but actually wasn't.'

NB: Planned as a running gag, The Bishops appeared in other deleted skits, audition-ing cans of beer and sperm donors (whether or not these were completed or shown to the audience, there's no evidence of them on the raw tapes). Rough scribbles in Richard Herring's 1995 notebook reveal even more planned auditions including 'continuity announcers' and a line no doubt intended for the close of Show 6 - "Next lightweight sketch show series!"

Also shown to the audience during the session was the Ant and the Man fable - although this was later postponed until Show 5, slightly messing up the running gag of having The Man' ordering pizza from the same takeaway that Richard Herring had called earlier in the show.

In the absence of studiotapes we can at least confirm here that Eldon's warm-up was fantastic, that Ben Moor was in the audience again and that Peter's can of pop had been specially warmed by BBC experts and shaken to oblivion for ages beforehand to ensure a spectacular fizzy explosion on camera – all to very little avail as it turned out.

[close]

[Stinky Lomax]

Looks like you got confused this week as well (unless it's some amazing post-modern gag by Stew & Rich), as there's no commentary on that video!

[lauraxsynthesis]

So laddish my god. I'm surprised I've forgotten that as it would have irked me at the time. There's that Stewart Lee hair in face. Is that the first outing of "Has let himself go", or was that previously in their radio shows? I enjoyed the Pestilence sketch. Rewatching this and particularly pausing to read all the text bits, I'm getting a new respect for Herring. He has had so many ideas over the years, and so many running jokes that he's kept going for decades and that never get tired imo. At last it's the explanation of the Julia Sawalha shrine! Highlight of the episode for me, if only in the knowledge of all that is to come.The commentary bits on the shrine are hilarious.

Listening to the commentaries, it's sweet how Rich & Stew compliment each other's acting. Rich does make fun of Stew getting fat later though. Rich points out that in these episodes Stew bullies him and he bullies Peter.

I do find the Marber references amusing. Lee in an interview in 2000: 

Time will show (Patrick) Marber to be a dishonest opportunist and a liar, and Chris (Morris) didn't really know what was going on.

Also from that interview haha:
My Julia Sawalha material has come back to haunt me now. But luckily Julia (mainly) sees the funny side.

[Menu]

Looks like you got confused this week as well (unless it's some amazing post-modern gag by Stew & Rich), as there's no commentary on that video!

Yes there's no commentary on that video posted above by Magnum. Thanks for uploading them anyway, have been really enjoying hearing them.

[Magnum Valentino]

Doh

Episode 4 with commentary

[Queen Peach]

yas

[Stinky Lomax]

Thanks MV!

[dissolute ocelot]

I liked quite a lot of Ep 4, but didn't find it hugely funny. Alistair Macgowan licking Rich's face is good. And the Four Horsemen sketch is very well done. Rich's dad in a jar, the Julia Sawalha decapitation joke, Rich bullying Peter. It is very strange and horrific. And felt very short.

[Mobbd]

Teenage knickers. It was a different time.

The Pestilence sketch wasn't very good, was it? When Rich says "you might say I'm the milkman of the apocalypse," he's saying it in a tongue-in-cheek way because he knows it's not very good.

Later, when he leaves his arm attached to the milk he's dropped off, the timing on the gag is rubbish.

Also, he's worried about getting the milk and the pestilence mixed up but the whole milk float gag was supposed to be a modern way to spread pestilence.

There's a Terry Pratchett book (Thief of Time maybe) where there's a milkman of the apocalypse called Ronnie Soak. I always wondered if Pratchett ripped this off. I mean, of all the things...

Modern Vampires didn't do much for me either. Did Pratchett nick that one?

Peter's "Drinking medicine and shouting" is good.

The shrine is great and obviously just the beginning of something.

And I actually like the Jarred Man of Somerset. I think the name/phrase is what amuses me the most, but the gross prop is good too. I don't mind gross-out humour at all.

Weirdly "off" episode though.

[dissolute ocelot]

Modern Vampires didn't do much for me either. Did Pratchett nick that one?

It definitely reminded me of something. Although it may relate to actual modern-day vampire cults where people claim they need to drink blood to survive; I'm not sure if they were a big thing in the mid 90s. But McGowan fully committed to the bit, and Rich getting punched in the face was very convincing. I could do without thinking about Stewart Lee's diseased cock though. It was a very disturbing episode.

[Theoretical Dentist]

There's a Terry Pratchett book (Thief of Time maybe) where there's a milkman of the apocalypse called Ronnie Soak. I always wondered if Pratchett ripped this off. I mean, of all the things...

I haven't read that one but the Pestilence sketch reminded me of another Pratchett (and Neil Gaiman) book, Good Omens, where Death, Famine, Pestilence and War ride motorbikes, and also shows what they're doing before they're summoned to do an apocalypse. That's from 1990 so before Fist of Fun, although the idea of updating the horses to a modern mode of transport may well have been done before that.

It definitely reminded me of something. Although it may relate to actual modern-day vampire cults where people claim they need to drink blood to survive; I'm not sure if they were a big thing in the mid 90s.

It's a fairly common subversion of vampire stories to have 'ethical' or 'vegetarian' vampires who need blood to survive but find ways of getting it without killing people. The TV Tropes wiki has some examples. And depicting vampires in the modern world is even more common – even Dracula was set pretty much at the time it was written.

[non capisco]

Ahhh yeah, not the best that week, was it? Rich's dad in a jar worked better when they initially did it on the radio in Lionel Nimrod and you couldn't see it, I reckon. The plain crisp into prawn cocktail gag is a belter either way.

Agree with the general consensus that the tone was off on this one. The teenage girls' knickers thing at the start was a right load of creepy lad mag tier shite without the intentionally pathetic portrayal of the Julia Sawalha shrine to redeem it. The high status double act role that the vain young Stew has to take makes him quite annoying to watch at times, I remember them striking a better balance on the radio shows which I definitely need to get round to relistening to. Pestilence sketch was fairly weak apart from Rebecca Front's ace delivery of "I mean his cock." Peter's section got the most laughs out of me due to Baynham's growing mastery of the character's pitiable mannerisms. Eldon is just mint on every appearance, even as a stereotype Italian pizza restaurant employee.

[non capisco]

I do find the Marber references amusing.

I did find the relentlessness of those this week funny in their sheer petty self indulgence. Not a soul sat at home watching would have known or cared but they were moaning on about him like two work colleagues in the pub slagging off their line manager.

[Magnum Valentino]

Worth mentioning that Four Horsemen was on Nimrod as well, with Armando as Pestilence. Really like his delivery of "special yoghurt" on that.

[Senior Baiano]

Iannucci is a joy on Lionel Nimrod, pretty much every time he speaks I'm cracking up

[lauraxsynthesis]

Iannucci's complete inability to do an accent. Some Scottish sounds always broke through

[Gurke and Hare]

Stu once broke up a fight between Mark Lamaar and a man

That's a very funny sentence, as is the insult "You vain man". Richard Herring is good at using the word "man" comedically.

[Gurke and Hare]

Iannucci is a joy on Lionel Nimrod, pretty much every time he speaks I'm cracking up

The way he says "Derek Dick" is very funny.

[Theoretical Dentist]

I wondered if the negative review of Fist of Fun they responded to in episode 4 was online and it doesn't seem to be, but I did find references to a Somerset journalist with the same name as the writer of the review, who I guess is probably the same person, and was a lifeboat crew member who was probably involved in saving dozens of lives, so I hope Lee and Herring are proud of whipping up their fans into a campaign of hate against him.

It still surprises me that the episodes were being filmed with a short enough lead time for a review to have been published by the time they were filming episode 4. It's been mentioned in the commentaries and/or the Q&As or liner notes or something posted earlier, and I guess it helps the audience for later episodes get a better idea of what they're going to see, and perhaps helps the writers get a better idea of what's working well.

[Menu]

Doh

Episode 4 with commentary

Great to see Tom Binns back on the box! Right, kids?!

Thanks again for the commentary upload, Maggers.

I think I've formed a new theory about L&H*. Their double-act work is tremendous. They complement each other really well and it's a perfect mix of trad humour and irony when they are performing together as 'themselves'. The sketches though are nearly always mediocre at best. It's odd to hear them on the commentary saying how funny the sketches are when they are so less effective than their stand-up bits. If they'd focussed more on their bits together on stage, and on Peter (who is a fully-formed perfect comedy character) then I think this series would have been more successful.

They still even work well together on the commentary. Ironically, a podcast would be the perfect format for them if they were to get back together. Podcasts were made for Lee and Herring.

*the theory is also true of Morecambe and Wise. Their bits together on stage are wonderful but the sketches were often very hit-and-miss. Like L&H their humour derived from the interaction between the two of them. Conversely their roles in the sketches could often have been played by any jobbing actors so the unique humour of their double-act was usually lost in that format.

[Magnum Valentino]

Morning Cabuddies

Episode 5 commentary with Rich & Stew

With Kevin Eldon (warning: Maximum Eldon)

Studio Rushes

Sleeve notes

Spoiler alert

Fist of Fun - Show 5 - Studio Tape

Recorded at BBC TV Centre (Studio 4), 28 April 1995

Broadcast 9 May 1995

    TERRY (FLOOR MANAGER): Slower, and enjoy it more...
    STEWART: Good advice, generally, innit!

Another full-to-the-brim studiotape - 1 hr 26 mins - with a fair whack of material dropped from the final cut.

Since Kevin Eldon would have been busy backstage preparing for his studio appearance as "one of Jesus' helpers" in the actual show, the warm-up man for this session was Paul Tonkinson (who would later go on to host The Sunday Show - which featured Eldon as regular astrologer 'Guy Baudelaire').

The entire post-crate Show 5 introduction would be retaken from scratch during the session for Show 6, giving us a massive chunk of unbroadcast studio-based material to enjoy here for the first time, including a visual interpretation of Fist of Fun's status as a breakfast cereal ("Stupid Unnecessary Risk Broken Glass and Razor Blade Crispies" - complete with amusing prop), an alternate link into the Theory of Relativity VT, (also snipped from this show and used in Show 6 instead) and Stewart Lee's Sex Advice Table, which was dropped entirely, never to return, although a version of it would appear in the tie-in book released that Autumn.

Other sections of the show cut for timing reasons before broadcast include an entire Gall-ery sequence (note that the camera wanders innocently past a contribution from 'Graham Linehan and Arthur Matthews, London') and a very funny middle-section of Peter's lifestyle routine (for anyone still scratching their heads over why there was a great big poster of Muriel's Wedding on his wall throughout this particular show, all is revealed here).

Once again, we get to see some very funny off-script additions during retakes, especially during the studio intro to Ant and the Man, with Richard's dismissals of 'the grasshopper' becoming more Stewart Lee-specific each time. A retake of Peter's card-made-of-sweets from fans meanwhile reveals that at least two identical prop cards were assembled by the BBC for Richard to destroy on camera (both no doubt replacements for the actual card which, as the onscreen caption assured us, 'fell apart in the post').

Between-takes amusement includes Stewart relating how he was forced to buy his tableful of 'requisites' from a Soho sex shop himself because the production crew were too embarrassed to do so (his request for a VAT receipt to claim the money back is certainly a case of life-imitating-an-old-radio-routine).

Also look out for the slightly depressing prank the production team attempt to play on Richard by sabotaging his night-goggles with black ink ("They've got a good sense of humour, on the Fist of Fun team..." he adds, through clenched comedy teeth) and some particularly excellent nodding reaction shots from Stewart during the intro to Driving Instructor.

[close]

[Shaxberd]

Thanks again MV!

And here's the regular link to Fist of Fun Series 1, Episode 5.

I recall it being mentioned last week that L&H had commented on this being a weaker episode - episode 4 was patchy, so interesting to see how this stands compared to that and the first three episodes.

[Stinky Lomax]

Thanks for posting, Shaxberd! I said that I thought they had mentioned 5 as being "the bad one" in an earlier commentary, but perhaps I misremembered, as this one was very good! Either that or they are simply wrong cornish-faced fools. (Edit: just started watching the commentary - thanks MV! - and it may have been just a general 'the fifth one is normally the bad one' comment that I misinterpreted. I am like a stupid child who can't even understand commentary tracks yet.)

The Amish sketch is fairly strong - even though it's mainly 'the 70s and 80s were funny, do you remember?' dressed up a bit, it does have a funny central conceit and some light religious satire (which gets tied into with the Christ stuff later) - and Peter Dibdin arrives fully-formed with really good supporting characters. I like how Dibdin is clearly and unashamedly a spiteful lampooning of some shit instructor Rich had, in the same vein as their continuing digs at Marber. The studio stuff is all really good as well - you can tell they're having more fun with it and improvising a lot more (I think Rich mentioned in previous liner notes that they had learnt to do this in order to keep repeat takes fresh for them and the audience) and continuing threads like the shrine, Stew bullying Rich and Aesop, and Rich bullying Peter, all ramp up. (This is characteristic of the L&H tv shows, I think - everything feels quite vanilla at first but then there's this cumulative effect as each element escalates and starts to interact with the others.) Also, the Grandstand studio mix-up is the first time the 'boxes' conceit has worked for me, and the Christ's helper bit is much better than the vampires, for my money, even though they don't really have an ending for it - getting Stew's hip sarcastic persona to partake in tired old pantomime bits works really well.

[Shaxberd]

Much improved compared to last week.

Loved the accidental appearance in the old Grandstand studio, and Rich's enthusiastic leaping as he mimes the animation on an old zoetrope. One thing I've appreciated a lot over this rewatch is little touches like that, another one being Rich enthusiastically doing wiggly hands as part of a transition into flashbacks, while Stew stoically and grumpily remains still in contract.

Amish sketch was fun. Had a sudden realisation halfway through that I needed to recontextualise it, as 1982 is genuinely retro now whereas would have only been about 13 years ago from the perspective of the show being made. Please imagine some 2001 Conkies enjoying their translucent multicolour iMacs and N64s.

I like that Peter has no concept of sex or masturbation, as well as his little sign saying 'serving sujestion'. No explanation needed or given for the Muriel's Wedding poster that's appeared in his flat.

Finally managed to decipher some of the signs in the background of the set. There's two quite close to each other saying the same thing: "Style, like sheer silk, often hides eczema." Wise words.

I'm sure the Ant and the Grasshopper (and Stew's disdain for it) come back up in TMWRNJ, but I enjoy their ongoing use of the inherently amusing image of men in Y-fronts (the most comedic of underwear).

The driving instructor sketch went on a bit too long imo, but the last scene really tickled me. This is how I imagine all people who can drive, rolling around in their piles of money going 'I can drive!'. (I cannot drive.)

The Jesus bit at the end didn't go anywhere much but overall, this one was pretty fun.

[non capisco]

Probably my favourite so far of series 1 on this revisit, although Baynham acted the pathos of innocent Peter seeing his only friend Donny Oddlegs get immolated slightly too well, it was like Dumbo clutching his mum's trunk through the bars.

Kevin Eldon's physical comedy miming kicking his hand on the cross as Jesus' helper was great, as was Rich's sheer delight at Eldon's performance during that whole section ("You MUST have seen him, Stew! He didn't get off in NEARLY enough time!")

As a young man in 1995 with what I now know to be undiagnosed dyspraxia getting humiliated in their inevitably doomed attempts to try and learn how to drive, the Peter Dibdin sketch felt very cathartic at the time.

[dissolute ocelot]

Amused by the revelation in the commentaries that they were doing their convoluted catchphrases, repeated bits, self-referential humour, and in-jokes when most of the audience had never seen the TV show before, due both to the delay between recording and broadcast, and the fact that a lot of them were random old people who hadn't even asked to be there. I guess a few fans of the radio show could have been there, but it's crazy it worked as well as it did. And it sounded as if they were very bad at building up catch-phrases anyway. Obviously TMWRNJ handled that much better.

I thought episode 5 was pretty good. The studio bits felt a bit looser and they were willing to have a bit more fun, like with Eldon's mucking around and Richard copying the zoetrope.

And I 100% believe driving instructors are actually like that.

[lauraxsynthesis]

Paul Tonkinson did the warm up when I went to a recording of Father Ted as well.

Isn't Rich's voice high.

The Julia Sawalha well bit is amazing. In the commentary, Rich says that the day his dad showed FoF to JS, he fast forwarded to show her this one as well. Horrific.

So Keith Allen was with Julia before she got together with Rich. I'd always assumed it was after. I do enjoy the ongoing running jokes Rich does about him.

In the rushes there's a pause between takes and you see through the night vision goggles camera how Stew looks in adoration at Rich from Rich's pov and it's very sweet.

Why on earth isn't Rich's love bite covered with makeup during the driving instructor sketch? It's very distracting. I think he said once in a podcast who gave him that. Sally Phillips?

Loved the panto stuff.

Could anyone tell what Linehan & Mathews sent in? Some picture of a man from a film?

When I had driving lessons a few years later, I was surprised that my instructor was nice and not a prick at all.

[non capisco]

When I had driving lessons a few years later, I was surprised that my instructor was nice and not a prick at all.

Mine told all my mates during their lessons how uniquely shit I was at driving. I'm not even joking, his name was Chris Carr.