Author Topic: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)  (Read 37430 times)

Alberon

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #360 on: August 31, 2019, 10:58:54 PM »
Horrific news.

It’s certainly much better than it used to be but we can get lulled into a false sense of safety. We see drivers walking away from destroyed cars all the time and it can become easy to forget the risks have only been minimised not eliminated.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #361 on: September 01, 2019, 07:11:35 AM »
Interesting and thoughtful piece by Andrew Benson on the Beeb website here that includes stuff about the paddock's immediate reaction.  Seems they all knew pretty much instantly it was life-threatening just from the pictures they saw.

Before reading that I hadn't watched it out of choice, but I'm afraid that that piqued my curiosity.  So I went looking, and found some footage, but I didn't see anything too obvious.  Thankfully, I suppose.

Leclerc's tweet brought a lump to my throat.  Poor bastard will never be able to think about his first pole without remembering what also happened that day.

Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #362 on: September 01, 2019, 12:40:53 PM »
I was watching the race live (on Sky) and immediately thought that it looked horrendous.  The original slam into the barriers at that part of the circuit was scary enough but the subsequent side-on impact at full speed reminded me somewhat of the sickening nature of Montoya's Indycar accident in Germany.

On Friday afternoon Martin Brundle was doing a live feature during F1 FP2 from the bottom of Eau Rouge and my knuckles were turning white watching the speed at which the F1 cars were cresting the brow of the hill just afterwards.

A very sad day.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #363 on: September 01, 2019, 01:28:25 PM »
I suppose that after seeing everyone walk away from Spa '98 with no more than one bruised knee, I don't worry as much as I used to, at least about European racing.

Until I read that article I hadn't realised that it was Pocono where Justin Wilson got killed; the same track that fucked up Robert Wickens.  It's a great little layout, just deadly.  Although in Wickens' case all it needed was the proper catch-fencing that many of the teams had been asking the organiser for for ages.

I wonder when Hamilton said "Oh wow. Hope that kid's good. Wow. That's terrifying." he was actually talking about Correa, because that would have been my reaction from the live footage, given that he went tumbling and ended up upside-down with his feet exposed.

Talking of Correa, I hope he gets well soon.

Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #364 on: September 01, 2019, 08:29:37 PM »
Crikey.  I've just seen the footage of young Alesi's 'save' at the top of the hill which was fairly miraculous.  However, it appears to have been his loss of control that triggered the chain reaction of rapid braking and avoidance action that followed.  What an appalling tragedy that his 'good fortune' was immediately followed by the worst possible fortune that befell the drivers who were behind him on the track.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #365 on: March 12, 2020, 07:39:43 PM »
Crossposted from the Coronavirus thread, for those that don't read it.



Australian F1 dead:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/51849163

I'm actually quite surprised at this, because I honestly can't see what difference holding it or not holding it now will make, given that the trigger was one coughing McLaren mechanic testing positive, and seven other coughing mechanics, both from McLaren and elsewhere, testing negative.

You could argue about the wisdom of holding it in the first place, what with all the people flying in, but that's done now, they're there, they've been there since the weekend.

You could argue about the crowds attending, but one buggy mechanic won't change whether the crowd will share the bug round between themselves.

I can't see much in the way of increased intra/inter-team transmission risk between holding the race, and not holding the race and having all the team personnel go back to their hotels and cross-infect each other there instead.

It's almost as if they're afraid the bug will end up on the cars and be crop-sprayed around the Albert Park crowds as the cars go round... which surely can't be a thing, can it?


Two ironies strike me:

1. Back at testing three weeks ago, the only team to ban a Chinese journalist from visiting their motor home was, you guessed it, McLaren.

2. The way the bug is clearing up in China, it's probably the safest place to hold a Grand Prix right now, despite it being the first to be cancelled... especially as it's not until the 17-18-19th April.

Mind you, China probably wouldn't want to let the F1 disease-circus in.


Fake EDIT: Just read a story clarifying that McLaren pulled out of the Grand Prix several hours before this "all cancelled" statement, isolating all their staff.  Given that, cancelling the whole event seems even weirder... except that perhaps it's purely because they won't run a race if all ten teams can't take part.  That would explain it all.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #366 on: March 12, 2020, 08:15:59 PM »
I think McLaren did it with a certain degree of drama which was intended to cause the ripples leading to the cancellation.

If I was being cynical I'd guess they'd like a bit more time to work on their car.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #367 on: March 12, 2020, 08:18:28 PM »
Either that, or long-delayed revenge on the FIA for the $100m fine.  (Just kidding, since all the key players in that have long since retired.)

Alberon

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #368 on: March 12, 2020, 10:10:08 PM »
It's about 9am tomorrow in Melbourne[1] and it looks like it might not have been called off. From 7news in Australia-

Quote
Australian grand prix boss Paul Little insists the formula one season-opener is going ahead despite multiple reports the race will be cancelled due to coronavirus.

The McLaren team has withdrawn from the event in Melbourne after a team member tested positive for coronavirus.

Despite widespread media reports overnight that the race won’t proceed, Little has told the Nine network on Friday that the grand prix is going ahead.
 1. crazy futuristic aussies

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #369 on: March 12, 2020, 10:23:01 PM »
It's odd.  I just came here to post the latest update from Motorsport Week, which says:

Quote
A vote on the matter was held and five teams were in favour of racing (Mercedes, Red Bull, Racing Point, AlphaTauri and Williams) and the remaining five against, meaning the matter has been referred to Formula 1 to make the decision.

However Mercedes parent company Daimler stepped in and told its team to pull out along with its customers Racing Point and Williams, leaving it 8-2 in favour of postponement.

Whilst there has been no official statement from Formula 1 or the FIA on the matter, it’s believed legal complications are holding this up due to insurance clauses, whereby F1 requires a local government to cancel in order to be covered, whereas the government requires F1 to cancel in order for it to be covered.

The BBC reports that Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen have both left Australia on early morning flights.
(emphasis mine)

...but there's nothing on the BBC website saying that.

On the other hand I imagine Mr. Little has a huge vested interest in saying it's still going ahead, for the reasons given in the article above.


I guess we might have to wait until 00:55 UK time, when 5 Live's FP1 coverage is due to start (or 25 minutes earlier if you have the Sky coverage), to be absolutely sure.

Alberon

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #370 on: March 12, 2020, 10:29:03 PM »
From the Sydney Morning Herald live blog

Quote
Team crews from the British F1 team Williams, American team Haas and Italian team AlphaTauri all said they were planning to get their cars ready for racing later this afternoon.

Standing near the pit lane ready to start working, team members said there had been no communication to them about a cancellation.

There were long queues of fans waiting at the gates around the track this morning, in anticipation of the 8.45am opening time. Caterers and security guards were going about their business as normal in anticipation of a busy day.

In the paddock, populated by Formula One crew and their families, team members from Ferrari, Mercedes and Red Bull are speaking to one another, eating breakfast and seemingly preparing for the day ahead. Teams are not packing up.

Did the big teams and F1 management try to pull out only to reverse when the smaller teams stayed in?

Nice to see that it might be a brand new season but fuckups and confusions are still dogging F1 as usual.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #371 on: March 12, 2020, 10:34:04 PM »
Might it be possible that the team principals tried to pull out, but all their underlings rebelled?

Or are we going to get a USGP 2005 situation again?


Meanwhile the first IndyCar race of the new season, St. Petersburg is still running on Sunday, but behind closed doors.  Ironically I'd have to shell out for Sky F1 to watch it.  So enjoyed it when it was on BT Sport a few years ago.

Alberon

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #372 on: March 12, 2020, 10:37:48 PM »
The support races seem to be going ahead. As to the F1 practice sessions. Who knows?

The reports of Vettel and Raikkonen flying home seem to have been made by Andrew Benson on BBC 5Live.

And if it does go ahead it seems no spectators will be allowed in.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #373 on: March 12, 2020, 10:44:35 PM »
Just found this, which seems to explain the situation well:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/australian-grand-prix-friday-plans/4744159/

Quote
Australian GP pushes on with event despite F1 cancellation

Australian Grand Prix organisers plan to push on with the rest of its event, despite the expected imminent cancellation of the Formula 1 race.

Following a meeting of F1 team principals agreeing with the FIA last night not to go ahead with the opening round of the championship, an official announcement about the fate of the grand prix has not yet been made.

However, in a statement obtained by Motorsport.com from the Australian Grand Prix corporation on Friday morning, it was made clear that all other activities were proceeding as planned.

“The gates will open at 8.45am and track activity will commence as scheduled at 9.10am,” said the statement. “Ancillary events, sponsor functions, the hospitality program and all activations and fan engagement activities will commence as planned.

“The broader implications arising from the McLaren withdrawal are being discussed with the FIA and Formula 1® following lengthy discussions overnight.

“There will be a series of ongoing discussions with key stakeholders through the morning and updates on any changes to the program will be communicated as promptly as possible.”

However, Victorian premier Daniel Andrews said shortly before the gates at the track were due to open on Friday morning that he would not allow spectators to attend if any track action took place.

Speaking to 7News Sydney, he said: “On public health grounds, there will be no spectators at the grand prix this weekend if a race actually happens at all. That is a matter for them [race organisers] and they will make announcements very soon.”


Motorsport.com has been told that F1 personnel were informed on Friday morning to treat things like a ‘normal day’, amid the dramatic news last night of McLaren’s withdrawal.

McLaren driver Lando Norris took to social media overnight to voice his disappointment at the news: “While I’m gutted that I can’t race, the most important thing right now is everyone’s health.

“We’ve been doing everything we can to limit spread and that has naturally involved me being around as few people as possible. My only thoughts are with the team and everyone in the world fighting this.”

Formula 1's teams are heading in to the track ready to pack up their equipment, with uncertainty about where F1 goes from here.

Motorsport.com understands that in the wake of the team decision, star drivers Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen have already flown out of Melbourne.
(emphasis mine)

So it appears that despite the AGPC's enthusiasm for them, there won't be any people at the support races either.  (EDIT: as you've just added. :-) )

That one McLaren guy must feel awful.


Ambient Sheep

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #375 on: March 13, 2020, 12:41:29 AM »
Good analysis of the clusterfuck here:

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/03/12/the-lowest-low-on-a-shambolic-day-for-formula-1/

Quote
...Meanwhile the Australian Grand Prix Corporation pressed on with its own plans and in a matter of moments the situation changed, suggesting that the event would go ahead with the support categories but without any spectators.

But by the time this decree had been issued fans had already gathered at the gates, which were due to be opened at 08:45, as they waited to be allowed in. The gates remained closed, information communicated was sketchy at best, before the call was issued by the government not to let any fans in. By which time a large group of people had congregated in a confined space, having used public transport, as well as all manner of other outlets such as hotels, cafes, restaurants etc. Likewise for all Formula 1 personnel, who early on Friday were informed to proceed with the event as usual.

Guidelines were never issued. Advice was thin on the ground. There was no procedure in place. The safety and health of everyone involved was pushed as priority but there was no care for that. They can try to pull the wool over our eyes but we are not sheep. Everyone failed in their duty... 

Alberon

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #376 on: March 13, 2020, 01:14:37 PM »
What an absolute fuck-up of the highest order and all because of money. Hamilton was right.

Bahrain and Vietnam now cancelled as well, not that there was any chance they would go ahead. China is already cancelled or postponed. The Netherlands, Spanish and Monaco events in May have to look very doubtful as well meaning the season might only start with Azerbaijan in June.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #377 on: March 13, 2020, 06:43:12 PM »
Sporting bodies are always the biggest fucking jokes.

Goes to show that the hard right wing that run motorsport can be just as shit at running things as anyone on the left, no matter how much they secretly wank off at the notion of fascist strongman figures.

Ambient Sheep

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #378 on: March 14, 2020, 09:34:02 PM »
Interesting article speculating on how the season might go from here...

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/03/14/what-might-a-revised-2020-formula-1-calendar-look-like/

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #379 on: March 15, 2020, 09:56:13 AM »
My prediction, season will be scrapped altogether.

Perils of a world championship, the calendar is very long and uniquely vulnerable given the interchanges required for it to function.

Any capacity to run races will be subject to the political position and public health status of each hosting country and its government, all of which have set off on different trajectories and different times, managed differently.

I still thought they may as well have held the Australia race at that late stage.

They might run whatever race can be staged then make a call later on whether there's enough to even call it a championship.

Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #380 on: March 15, 2020, 12:42:37 PM »
Rather than scrap the season, they could ship everything to Bahrain international isolated desert circuit, set up camp, and hold a race each weekend on each variation of layout including reverse and inside out variations. No spectators allowed but at least it keeps the sport running. And we have something to watch while THE EVENT takes it's course over the coming year.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #381 on: March 15, 2020, 01:06:48 PM »
My prediction, season will be scrapped altogether.

Perils of a world championship, the calendar is very long and uniquely vulnerable given the interchanges required for it to function.

Any capacity to run races will be subject to the political position and public health status of each hosting country and its government, all of which have set off on different trajectories and different times, managed differently.

I still thought they may as well have held the Australia race at that late stage.

They might run whatever race can be staged then make a call later on whether there's enough to even call it a championship.

Problem with cancelling the season is money. Circuits pay massive fuck off fees to the F1 Group to have the privilege of an F1 race, and I'd say several will go bankrupt without the income from the F1 weekend. The F1 Group could obviously waive those fees given the lack of a race, but then that presumably will blow a hole in their budget (along with a presumed significant loss in TV income for the season if there's no races to show) instead. Somehow the F1 Group strikes me as something that you can't just shut down for a while and stop it eating money, even if there are no races.

Teams, particularly Williams who have no business outside of F1, could also be in trouble.

Now maybe given the batshit amounts of money in F1, all that's inevitable anyway.

Rather than scrap the season, they could ship everything to Bahrain international isolated desert circuit, set up camp, and hold a race each weekend on each variation of layout including reverse and inside out variations. No spectators allowed but at least it keeps the sport running. And we have something to watch while THE EVENT takes it's course over the coming year.

Lando Norris and Max Verstappen, possibly along with Carlos Sainz and Alex Albon will probably knock themselves out on racing sims for the next while.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #382 on: March 29, 2020, 03:07:00 AM »
Just happened across this clip on Twitter, reposted a week ago:

Lewis Hamilton takes Sir Frank Williams for a hot lap round Silverstone last year to celebrate Frank's 50th year in F1.

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1241079182517587968

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #383 on: May 12, 2020, 02:09:50 AM »
Vettel to leave Ferrari at the end of this season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52612216

Although the article doesn't mention it, the last offer I heard they made was to cut his €30m salary to equal Leclerc's €12m, for a two-year contract --
https://www.grandprix.com/news/ferrari-offers-vettel-new-two-year-contract.html

To be honest, in the circumstances that wasn't a bad offer, but I can understand why he rejected it.

What happens next will be interesting.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #384 on: May 12, 2020, 09:47:46 AM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/52612216
Quote
Hamilton is not considered to be a serious possibility.

I don't know. Hasn't he always wanted to get a Ferrari drive under his belt? It's not a certainty, but I don't think it's completely beyond the possible.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #385 on: May 12, 2020, 10:08:53 AM »
Consecutive multiple World Champions who've been fucked off by Ferrari's antics. I think Hamilton will sit there and think: "yeah, if I want to overhaul Schumacher's 7 WDCs, I should stay exactly where I am." Although it would be funny if he went there just to see could Ferrari complete the set by fucking it up on him too.

Vettel didn't help himself, especially in 2018 when he should've at least run Hamilton close, but that's the one season out of the last 11 where Ferrari would've been remotely deserving of winning either Championship. They've not really had their shit together since Schumacher left. Raikkonen only won it in 2007 because McLaren committed seppuku with the management of their drivers.

Vettel will leave the sport, imo. Unless Ferrari manage to pull Max away from Red Bull and open a vacancy there for him, but I don't see that. At least not in 2021.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 10:20:06 AM by Wonderful Butternut »

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #386 on: May 12, 2020, 11:56:50 AM »
It makes little sense for Ferrari if they are serious about winning multiple titles with Leclerc to bring in a massively disruptive ultrasensitive egomaniacal primadonna like Hamilton just for the few years he has left, when Leclerc has shown his speed. If they brought in Verstappen you have the next Senna/Prost situation on your hands, so unless they have a truly dominant car that sort of dynamic could cost them a title.

That said, when there is so much money in play, and Hamilton may want a new challenge, you never know.

On balance of considerations I reckon Ferrari will back Leclerc to the hilt and maybe get in a hedge bet low maintenance driver like Ricciardo as his number 2, still a potential race winner and World champion.

Personally I thought Vettel should have stayed put.

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #387 on: May 12, 2020, 01:57:14 PM »
On balance of considerations I reckon Ferrari will back Leclerc to the hilt and maybe get in a hedge bet low maintenance driver like Ricciardo as his number 2, still a potential race winner and World champion.

I'd argue if they're really serious about building around Leclerc, Ricciardo is actually too good be the number 2. Whilst he would offer a good safety net if Leclerc cracks under the pressure of leading the team (as Vettel did) there's just as likely to be friction if Leclerc doesn't crack, but Ricciardo is as fast as him. Ricciardo's also a relatively aggressive driver, so if they did go wheel to wheel on track you can bet someone would end up unhappy. Both Merc and Red Bull have a clear no. 1s an 2s, an arrangement that I just couldn't see Ricciardo being interested joining Ferrari for, even considering that the Renault move is looking like an even bigger mistake than we initially thought.

If Leclerc's your baby, you bring in Sainz or Giovinazzi, who probably (definitely in the latter case) won't match him.

EDIT: Of course, what if they go for the Williams mindset in the mid-80s and not care about one of their drivers being WDC as long as they win the constructors? Two strong drivers it is.

Won't happen in a million years, but I'd love to see Vettel at Haas just to hear to Gunther Steiner tell him to shut up over team radio.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 02:13:09 PM by Wonderful Butternut »

Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #388 on: May 12, 2020, 08:32:20 PM »
Glitch King!

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Re: The Motorsport Thread (Part 2)
« Reply #389 on: May 12, 2020, 08:52:41 PM »
Ricciardo dealt with King Joffrey at Red Bull pretty well. You can tell his general team-mate technique is diffusion. I think he left when it was made obvious if there was ever a WDC from Red Bull Helmut Marko would call the shots and it was going to be Verstappen who would be favoured...... and would probably win out on ability in the long run (a bit like Webber, Ricciardo's best chance to beat Verstappen was early on while he was inexperienced).

I reckon Ferrari would want someone fast enough they could conceivably win the title. Ricciardo would be an exciting match-up and probably not too much of an intra-team issue. Leclerc doesn't seem to me to have the Verstappen type cuthroat mentality, he's not absolutely ruthless, at least not yet.

Sainz probably is a Bottas-type patsy, I guess, and generally has the sort of dreadful luck you associate with number 2 'team players'.