Janey Godley, Scottish Neoliberal Party jester!

Started by Rizla, September 08, 2021, 05:14:59 PM

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earl_sleek

I've known a few decent Rangers fans. They've all been Scots who've lived most of their lives in England though, dunno if that makes a difference.

chveik

i think it's fair to say it's in the top tier of clubs that have the most scum fans

jobotic

Quote from: Bigfella on September 14, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
                        I could do worse I suppose!  Classic, mate.   By the way, is my reply to jobotic appearing blank on everyone else's screen? It previewed okay.

Yes

Chollis

Quote from: Bigfella on September 14, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
                        I could do worse I suppose!  Classic, mate.   By the way, is my reply to jobotic appearing blank on everyone else's screen? It previewed okay.

Dex Sawash

Quote from: Bigfella on September 14, 2021, 01:00:01 PM
                        I could do worse I suppose!  Classic, mate.   By the way, is my reply to jobotic appearing blank on everyone else's screen? It previewed okay.

yes

phantom_power

Quote from: chveik on September 14, 2021, 01:10:03 PM
i think it's fair to say it's in the top tier of clubs that have the most scum fans

Well yeah they have the most fans so it stands to reason they will have the most shit ones, even if the ratio is the same as other clubs

Quote from: phantom_power on September 14, 2021, 03:11:55 PM
Well yeah they have the most fans so it stands to reason they will have the most shit ones, even if the ratio is the same as other clubs
The problem is strength in numbers: if you have 3 shit fans out of 300, that's not going to trouble anyone, but 500 shit fans out of 50000 is enough to start a small insurrection. Or at least hassle a lot of people in public places.

Kankurette

I know a Rangers fan who's a nice lad but in general, I'm nervous around them because of their far-right connections. And the weird obsession with Israel. The EDL were full of them. No Surrender this, No Surrender that.

Bigfella

Quote from: jobotic on September 14, 2021, 12:00:03 PM
I know not all Rangers fans are like that but how do you cope with the vast amount who are?
I hear what you're saying, but I just get on with it.  I avoid the nasty guys and don't condone them.  We aren't a homogenous mass of hun bastards.  You've got the boys in the lodge who want to extinguish Catholicism, defend the union etc. Then the guys who drink in certain pubs, they just want a boozy singsong.  A lot of fans don't care about the religion, others just sing the songs and wave provocative flags to wind up the opposition.  A lot of the banter between workmates etc is almost obligatory, it would be weird if it didn't happen.  Thd great Arthur Brown asserts that Glasgow is a city united by bigotry.


chveik

Quote from: phantom_power on September 14, 2021, 03:11:55 PM
Well yeah they have the most fans so it stands to reason they will have the most shit ones, even if the ratio is the same as other clubs

not sure they have the biggest fanbase in the world

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Bigfella on September 14, 2021, 04:36:01 PM
                       I hear what you're saying, but I just get on with it.  I avoid the nasty guys and don't condone them.  We aren't a homogenous mass of hun bastards.  You've got the boys in the lodge who want to extinguish Catholicism, defend the union etc. Then the guys who drink in certain pubs, they just want a boozy singsong.  A lot of fans don't care about the religion, others just sing the songs and wave provocative flags to wind up the opposition.  A lot of the banter between workmates etc is almost obligatory, it would be weird if it didn't happen.  Thd great Arthur Brown asserts that Glasgow is a city united by bigotry.

Just like racism in 70s. The normalization of hateful bigotry is how it gets to stick around without proper scrutiny.

Bigfella

Quote from: jamiefairlie on September 14, 2021, 06:03:30 PM
Just like racism in 70s. The normalization of hateful bigotry is how it gets to stick around without proper scrutiny.
Yes, I'll grant you that.  However, all's fair if it's consensual - joking with guys that I know or shouting at Celtic fans at the game.

Quote from: Bigfella on September 14, 2021, 06:30:27 PM
                        Yes, I'll grant you that.  However, all's fair if it's consensual - joking with guys that I know or shouting at Celtic fans at the game.

I don't think Celtic fans (or any other group of fans, for that matter, including Rangers fans) would consider that they had consented to having certain things shouted at them, just by going to a game.

Kankurette


the hum

Aye so now we have the Rangers moderates acting as apologists for the extremists. It's worse than I thought.

Moreover they're such a bizarrely run club. They still won't grant interviews to BBC Scotland, a near decade after one of their journalists had the temerity to do an investigative doc on their tax shenanigans (if you were a fan of any other club I would think you'd be happy for the uncovering of widespread corruption), and currently they've been hatching some weird scheme to charge five figure sums for press access. It's run with a kind of exceptionalist siege mentality, it's own microcosm of a far-right movement.

Bigfella

Quote from: Kankurette on September 14, 2021, 07:02:41 PM
Sectarianism is banter now?
I'd be a little upset if you thought I was a bad guy.  From what I've seen of your posts you seem good natured.

Kankurette

I'm Jewish, but not pro-Israel, so I don't know where I'd fit in. The only Scottish team I give a shit about is Greenock Morton, my dad's team.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy, I just don't get sectarianism and how singing songs about being up to your knees in Fenian blood or stamping on Celtic fans' heads or whatever is just harmless fun. A friend of a friend said when he went to Glasgow he'd get asked what team he supported and there was no right answer. You say Rangers, you get beaten up. You say Celtic, you get beaten up. You say another Scottish team, you get beaten up. You say Liverpool or Man United or any other English team, you get beaten up.

A while back Rangers played in Manchester and their fans trashed the place and a Northern Irish friend of mine was bricking it because she teaches Irish classes and had Irish teaching stuff in her car, she was worried they'd see it. Which is fucked up. As is my dad refusing to call my baby brother Tim because it's a derogatory word for Catholics where he was from.

Tbh I find banter difficult to react to anyway cos I'm autistic. I mean, if someone made a Holocaust joke at me, would I be expected to laugh?

Jockice

Quote from: Kankurette on September 15, 2021, 03:43:57 AM
The only Scottish team I give a shit about is Greenock Morton, my dad's team.

Boo! Hiss! The enemy across the water. The last time I was in Greenock I wore a Dumbarton shirt. That's how brave I am.

Anyway, I'm from a Celtic-supporting family but I have Rangers fans in it. My dad was Catholic, my mum Protestant but there's even a Rangers supporter on my dad's side. Not sure exactly how that's happened but if I meet him (which I haven't for a few years) we have a bit of football-related banter.  That's all. It really is just banter. But there are some people who take it far too seriously and use it as an excuse for their own prejudices.

Disregarding the club's history (which is admittedly hard to do) there are decent Rangers fans though and cunts who support Celtic (might as well repeat my story here about having a friendly conversation with a couple of them I met in a nightclub in England until they started insulting me for being disabled) and I've lived out of Scotland too long to know the religion stuff in full detail. I was brought up a Catholic but have never been religious if that makes sense. I think religion is bollocks. Not the actual believing in a god bit which is fair enough, whatever gets you through the night, but all the rivalry and 'my god is better than your god' shit. Again though I've met decent people who are very religious and cunts who are non-believers

As for Godley, I haven't really paid much attention to her. Seen the  odd sausage dog video and the like and knew that she'd put on the first performances by Jerry Sadowitz, who I'm a fan of.  Maybe like him she was trying to do the 'there should be no limits to comedy' bit, but judging by the tweets she forgot that the one limit there should be is that comedy should be funny. I can't see Sadowitz issuing such a mealy-mouthed apology for some of the things he's said. But then again I can't imagine him being asked to do adverts by the SNP.

GMTV

And my experience growing up and living in Glasgow for 30 plus years that there was more casual racism in the east of the city than elsewhere. Along the lines of, oh aye you're a hun, at least you're not a....

There was a strong white Irish Catholic heritage monoculture so I think that's probably where it stemmed from. I'd feel far safer walking around the west or north of the city than the east end.

Just in general too, very quickly racist statements would be made as if it was nothing. That's probably changing now though. I moved away from Glasgow a number of years ago now so I don't have my finger on the pulse the same way.

This concept of the average rangers fan as a knuckle dragging neanderthal, vs the liberal, sophisticated inclusive rest of the city (including celtic supporters) is a myth. Its laughable really.

Bigfella

I don't participate in or approve of the violence.  I realise that by taking part in the friendlier jokes and insults then ultimately I'm playing a part in perpetuating the whole thing.  What can I do, wave a magic wand and make it all go away?  And no, holocaust jokes aren't funny, although I'd allow Sadowitz to do them because he's a Jew who specialises in taboo material.  Nice to hear from a Dumbarton fan, you guys are so rare I don't even know what the shirt looks like!

Jockice

Quote from: Bigfella on September 15, 2021, 08:08:56 AM
I don't participate in or approve of the violence.  I realise that by taking part in the friendlier jokes and insults then ultimately I'm playing a part in perpetuating the whole thing.  What can I do, wave a magic wand and make it all go away?  And no, holocaust jokes aren't funny, although I'd allow Sadowitz to do them because he's a Jew who specialises in taboo material.  Nice to hear from a Dumbarton fan, you guys are so rare I don't even know what the shirt looks like!

I'm actually a Celtic fan. Used to travel up from England (where I've lived since I was seven) for matches and all that. But The Sons are my hometown club and my second team (cue argument about whether you actually can have a second team. Or a third. Or a fourth). It's an old-style shirt (white with a yellow and black band round the middle) but they play in plain yellow at the moment. I last had a current kit (also yellow) in the early 90s, wore it out on a night out in Sheffield and got stopped from going into a club because they thought I would be a troublemaker. I finally managed to convince the bouncers that I wasn't going to provoke a riot. Five minutes afterwards someone came up to me and called me a 'fucking Dumbarton bastard.' Turns out he was a Hearts fan. But it was said in a bantery way, no offence meant, or taken. We had a chat and went our separate ways. That's the good side of football rivalry.

Jockice

Quote from: GMTV on September 15, 2021, 07:41:54 AM
And my experience growing up and living in Glasgow for 30 plus years that there was more casual racism in the east of the city than elsewhere. Along the lines of, oh aye you're a hun, at least you're not a....

There was a strong white Irish Catholic heritage monoculture so I think that's probably where it stemmed from. I'd feel far safer walking around the west or north of the city than the east end.

Just in general too, very quickly racist statements would be made as if it was nothing. That's probably changing now though. I moved away from Glasgow a number of years ago now so I don't have my finger on the pulse the same way.

This concept of the average rangers fan as a knuckle dragging neanderthal, vs the liberal, sophisticated inclusive rest of the city (including celtic supporters) is a myth. Its laughable really.

Indeed. The most openly racist member of my family is on the Catholic side, despite his own dad having been an immigrant. His son, meanwhile is the Rangers fan but I've never heard him say anything racist. And still on that side I was genuinely shocked a few years ago when another relation (a Celtic fan) showed me a clip on youtube which basically consisted of a Scots Asian being bullied for being small. I think I was expected to laugh. But i just shook my head in disgust. However people can change. I have seen that relation since and when he pointed at two Asian men standing on a street corner I feared the worst. But his comment was along the lines of: "You don't see that often, a Muslim and a Sikh chatting to each other." I was amazed that he actually knew the difference between the two religions.

Kankurette

Quote from: Jockice on September 15, 2021, 07:30:23 AM
Boo! Hiss! The enemy across the water. The last time I was in Greenock I wore a Dumbarton shirt. That's how brave I am.

Anyway, I'm from a Celtic-supporting family but I have Rangers fans in it. My dad was Catholic, my mum Protestant but there's even a Rangers supporter on my dad's side. Not sure exactly how that's happened but if I meet him (which I haven't for a few years) we have a bit of football-related banter.  That's all. It really is just banter. But there are some people who take it far too seriously and use it as an excuse for their own prejudices.

Disregarding the club's history (which is admittedly hard to do) there are decent Rangers fans though and cunts who support Celtic (might as well repeat my story here about having a friendly conversation with a couple of them I met in a nightclub in England until they started insulting me for being disabled) and I've lived out of Scotland too long to know the religion stuff in full detail. I was brought up a Catholic but have never been religious if that makes sense. I think religion is bollocks. Not the actual believing in a god bit which is fair enough, whatever gets you through the night, but all the rivalry and 'my god is better than your god' shit. Again though I've met decent people who are very religious and cunts who are non-believers

As for Godley, I haven't really paid much attention to her. Seen the  odd sausage dog video and the like and knew that she'd put on the first performances by Jerry Sadowitz, who I'm a fan of.  Maybe like him she was trying to do the 'there should be no limits to comedy' bit, but judging by the tweets she forgot that the one limit there should be is that comedy should be funny. I can't see Sadowitz issuing such a mealy-mouthed apology for some of the things he's said. But then again I can't imagine him being asked to do adverts by the SNP.
I guess it's different with your family/mates. There are things I'd say to friends that I wouldn't say to people I don't know. Tbh if a stranger saw me in an Everton shirt and shouted '1995' or 'bitter' at me or called me names, I wouldn't know how to react. Like, my first reaction is to get angry and defensive, or worry they're going to attack me. I got bullied a lot at school and part of it was because I supported the wrong team, and I don't know how I was supposed to react. Just laugh and say, "Yeah, you got me, Everton are shit and I'm a bad person for supporting them"? Incidentally, I've had bad experiences with Celtic fans as well, some of them can be very antisemitic and no, I don't mean criticism of Israel before anyone starts. Like, I've had one telling me that Jews should stop complaining because disabled people have it worse. I'm a disabled Jew, ffs.

I did like the sausage dog videos, but then I like dachshunds.

Quote from: GMTV on September 15, 2021, 07:41:54 AM
And my experience growing up and living in Glasgow for 30 plus years that there was more casual racism in the east of the city than elsewhere. Along the lines of, oh aye you're a hun, at least you're not a....

There was a strong white Irish Catholic heritage monoculture so I think that's probably where it stemmed from. I'd feel far safer walking around the west or north of the city than the east end.

Have you ever stopped to think why it might be that there are parts of the east end of Glasgow with a 'strong white Irish Catholic heritage monoculture', as you put it? Could it be the fact that, until very recent decades, there was systematic sectarian discrimination against Scots of Irish Catholic extraction, preventing them from progressing, socially and economically, beyond the poorest and least desirable parts of town.

And yet, we still have Rangers fans singing 'the famine's over, why don't you go home?'. And when some of them get arrested for it, the response isn't any sort of self-reflection, it's belligerence and talk of vendettas and victimisation against them. A lot of the same Rangers fans who (correctly) rallied behind Glen Kamara when he was racially abused seem, funnily enough, to think it's OK to tell people with a slightly different heritage to them to go back to a country in which they've never lived.

There's nothing more dispiriting than spending even just a few days away from the Glasgow area, then coming back and seeing the same old shite going round and round and round.

GMTV

Rangers responsible for the East end of Glasgow being to some extent a bit racist....

Always cheated never defeated.

No point trying engage in some sort balanced debate in it. I merely state these things to provide a counterweight to the prevailing opinions stated on this site.

I left Glasgow years ago and am happy to be away from all that shite.

Quote from: GMTV on September 15, 2021, 10:51:39 AM
Rangers responsible for the East end of Glasgow being to some extent a bit racist.... .

Not what I said, is it?

Misrepresenting someone else's opinion and then attacking the misrepresentation doesn't do anyone any good. You seem oblivious to the fact that you've just proved my point about Rangers fans unwillingness engage with the issues.

ProvanFan

I'm doing an orange crawl this weekend, hitting up all 34 walks.

Quote from: GMTV on September 15, 2021, 07:41:54 AM
This concept of the average rangers fan as a knuckle dragging neanderthal, vs the liberal, sophisticated inclusive rest of the city (including celtic supporters) is a myth. Its laughable really.

Absolutely. I'm neither, but the notion that Celtic are the poor, downtrodden underdogs with the good music while Rangers are violent racist lunatics is absurd. Celtic Football Club are one of the wealthiest clubs in the world and their fans have no problem singing songs that celebrate a terrorist organisation that kills civilian men, women and children.

phantom_power

Quote from: chveik on September 14, 2021, 05:42:40 PM
not sure they have the biggest fanbase in the world

Sorry I misread your post. I thought you were saying that the top tier teams have the worst fans but I see now that it wasn't